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WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith

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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#91 » by iamworthy » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:15 pm

If Gasol can bring it every night Im all for keeping him on this team. He's talented enough to mask the fact that he's playing of position if he brings it. Sometimes his boxscore reads better than he actually played. Sometimes watching the games you forget he's on the court. When a player is making 19 million dollars that should not happen. If we do trade Pau he will instantly become the second best center in the league. If just so happens that we have the best...which is why he will get no minutes at the center position. Unlike when we had Bynum, Bynum minutes were always limited leaving a good chunk of time for Gasol to get some center minutes. Now, with D12 playing 40-41 minutes there are none. Gasol is a very very valuable trade piece and if Mitch can improve this team by trading him then so be it.
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#92 » by Slartibartfast » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:17 pm

Atlanta wouldn't want Pau at this stage of his career - there'd have to be third team with expirings/prospects/picks that would prefer Pau to obtaining Smiith themselves.
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#93 » by Jajwanda » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:34 pm

There's a tremendous amount of assumptions being made here. First of all the FAs of 2014 play on good teams. Rudy Gay may or may not be a Laker. So-and-so may or not be a Laker in this or that year. The Lakers are looking at that this in the long-term. If you've got Josh Smith at least you guarantee you have something in 2014. I know it's nice to assume that the Lakers get LeBron but right now it's about Dwight. If you can keep Dwight and keep Smith you have something substantial.
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#94 » by Stebo_SSK » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:35 pm

Compton310 wrote:either we trade for him now which i hope so, are get him in the off season when he is a free agent.. this is why teams stay at the bottom cuz there stupid.. he's walking at the end of the year why not get something for him in return.. we couldve had beasly but instead of trading him to us they let him walk for nothing smh.. i dont feel sorry for middle market teams cuz 9 times outta 10 they screw themselves


You act as if Beasley was garnering a bunch in a trade? You know LA almost got dude for Fisher and a late 1st rounder right? Have you seen the way he has played in PHX? He is shooting sub 40%. We got off better by going after Hill.

Smith is probably only better than Gasol in pick and roll D. Other than that Gasol is superior to Smith in every category even as the 3rd option on the Lakers. Another thing guys are overlooking is the fact Gasol can play the Center position and spell Howard. This means the offense doesnt have to take a nosedive and one can play a lot with the reserves WHICH WE NEED. LA could literally go the whole game and play Gasol and Howard at separate times and still be competitive if not more. With Smith this doesnt happen.

Another thing guys overlook is Pau is actually a pretty good POST defender. Smith is avg. We have the best of both worlds with both with Howard and Pau. Regardless of what youtube shows you Smith isnt some defensive anchor. He is a guy that gets blocks due to his athleticism. He is far from a gamechanger. Go watch the games.
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#95 » by Jajwanda » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:37 pm

Pick and roll D, transition, shot-blocking, rotations, cutting to the basket, ability one-on-one from the high post.

Pau is gone in two years. Don't forget that. This franchise doesn't want to go into 2014 without at least some kind of help for Dwight.
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#96 » by Sedale Threatt » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:49 pm

Jajwanda wrote:That's a misleading stat. I want to see the comparison between Gasol-Smith off of the pick and pop and the spot-up. Smith takes a tremendous amount more mid-range shots based off of ISOs and plays run for him than Gasol does. If I asked Kobe to sit there all day and take open mid-ranges his percentage would be very high as well. It's low because he's defended.


Gasol shot 42.8 percent on 173 spot-ups last season compared to 36 percent on 353 for Josh Smith, per Synergy Sports. They do not chart pick/pops.
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#97 » by Emperor_Earth » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:58 pm

I've long been in favor of Josh Smith for two reasons, although I have appreciated Pau far more than the average NBA junkie:

1) Defense
2) Athleticism/Pace

1) Pick n Roll, weak side rotations
With a frontcourt rotation of D12/Smith/Hill/MWP/Ebanks, all of a sudden you have 5 players who are hustle Defensive players. Being pick and rolled to death? That ends immediately because you don't have to tell guards to defend differently if Pau is guarding the roll man or D12/Hill is.

Weakside rotations? Both Josh and D12 are very good weakside shot blockers. Hill is more of a contest/position defensive player which works because of his foot speed/hustle.

We even have the flexibility to throw in Antawn/Kobe to help with spacing as necessary.

2) Athleticism/Pace
We have Nash. I'd rather have Josh Smith. Partially to help on PNR D, but also to get out in the open court.

We're starting to see D12 do it now that he's getting healthier. But I want to see our bigs get great post position off fast breaks or trailing dunks. Pau is decent with the latter. Josh Smith would be better at both.

What we lose: Passing/Shooting

The first is not much of a concern given our transition to a Nash-centric offense and the emergence of Morris and presence of Duhon.

The latter is fairly concerning and compels readers to reveal whether they prefer offensive spacing or defensive execution. I prefer the latter and believe Smith's athleticism/steals will lead to enough fast break/easy points to almost offset offensive decrease while increasing Defensive ability way more than enough to compensate.

But to each his/her own.
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#98 » by Jajwanda » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:01 pm

That's not that bad. Six percent on spot-ups? I'll take that difference.

I'll tell you what I'm going back and watching the Suns offense with Nash in 06. What you'll notice about the pick and roll is that all not all pick and rolls are the same. If the guard is a shooter like Nash, the odds are he's not going to go into the paint every time as a guy like Sessions would. Boris Diaw on a number of players simply drives and passes to the other cutter. The spacing isn't bad. It's not ideal sure since neither Diaw nor Smith have great jumpers but I'll tell you what when Josh Smith has the ball off of the pick and roll, he's so skilled in his driving ability that---->

You really can't say I'm going to just give him the jumper. You're not squared up against him. You're going to get blown past. Diaw is doing it every time and Amare is waiting.
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#99 » by GAME TIME » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:22 pm

Gasol vs Smitch check game, who wins

Shooting - Gasol
Passing - Gasol
Rebounding - Gasol
Toughness - Smith
Higher IQ- Gasol
man defense(perimeter)- Smith
Post defense- Gasol
team defense- Smith
Pnr defense- Smith
Pnr offense- Smith
Pick and Pop O - Gasol
Post offense - Gasol
dribble drive offense- Smith
spacing in offense Smith
shot blocker- Smith
Hustle - Smith
work ethic - ?
Speed (pace of game)- Smith
Better slasher - Smith


Feel free to add more, that I missed.
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#100 » by rand0m » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:23 pm

Even though Pau has been struggling as of late, he his still better on offense than Smith (landslide on bball IQ). But other than post defense, I like Smith a lot more. The way we match up to other contenders, I could see why some people are arguing for him. Like Jawanda stated: Pick and roll D, transition, shot-blocking, rotations, cutting to the basket, ability one-on-one from the high post. Pau's decline in these areas makes it hard to believe that the defense will get to where it needs to be for legit contention. I am not opposed to Pau playing a chunk of minutes as backup C though. He definitely gives us more all around flexibility that Smith wouldn't.
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#101 » by Jajwanda » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:29 pm

What bothers me about Gasol is his one-on-one game. When was the last time we saw any of that in the NBA? For Spain sure. For the Lakers? Nope.

I'd wait a little bit to see if D'Antoni can change his value. Metta and Gasol no matter what anybody will tell you still aren't ideal for L.A. but D'Antoni does get the best out his players in terms of efficiency that I can already see.
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#102 » by jigga_man » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:11 pm

Mirjalovic wrote:I don't want Pau traded for Josh Smith.

Pau still one of the smartest bigman in NBA, he just need get his head straight this season.


His intelligence is not going to fix his atrocious help defense. It's fallen off the cliff.
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#103 » by Jajwanda » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:29 pm

It seems a little ridiculous to make such a big deal over what is essentially 6% in spot-up efficiency. Smith is better or even at literally every other thing this team needs.
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#104 » by wafer88 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:46 pm

And to be fair, Gasol gets some ridiculously open looks out there. His midrange jump shots are pretty much wide open, as they usually come off doubles to Kobe (but to be fair to pau, the center is usually reluctant to come out on him as he usually finds Dwight/Drew for the lob). But Smith takes some of the most low percentage contested long twos there...his looks would surely improve on the Lakers. The high/low pf to center lobs might not be there anymore, but regarding strict shooting ability I think the two are very close.
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#105 » by D-BE-LAW » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:41 am

Josh smith and dwight howard front court would be beast. Freak athletes with skill.
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#106 » by Stebo_SSK » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:52 am

Jajwanda wrote:It seems a little ridiculous to make such a big deal over what is essentially 6% in spot-up efficiency. Smith is better or even at literally every other thing this team needs.


This whole statement bothers me. 6 percents a lot, especially when a guy is shooting a shot that is supposed to be a bread and butter shot. Thats like saying the diff in Kobe shooting 50% and 43% means nothing. Over a course of a game it will show. A lot of skill, decision making and timing goes into that percentage. Pau can be a pootboy but rarely do we have a wtf is he doing out there look when it comes to offense. I can bet every dime I have that 90 percent of the Laker board has watched more than 2 ATL games when they werent playing LA on national broadcast.
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#107 » by DEEP3CL » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:06 am

Stebo_SSK wrote:
Jajwanda wrote:It seems a little ridiculous to make such a big deal over what is essentially 6% in spot-up efficiency. Smith is better or even at literally every other thing this team needs.


This whole statement bothers me. 6 percents a lot, especially when a guy is shooting a shot that is supposed to be a bread and butter shot. Thats like saying the diff in Kobe shooting 50% and 43% means nothing. Over a course of a game it will show. A lot of skill, decision making and timing goes into that percentage. Pau can be a pootboy but rarely do we have a wtf is he doing out there look when it comes to offense. I can bet every dime I have that 90 percent of the Laker board has watched more than 2 ATL games when they werent playing LA on national broadcast.
Can't lie.......I have no reason to watch the Hawks. But I'm aware of their squad. And I've seen enough of Smith to know it's not a seemless fit as Jawanda want's to make it. Having a Josh Smith on your team has some pluses and negetives. All the negetives being on the offensive end.
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#108 » by Anklebreaker702 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:30 am

I say do it. Pau is no longer the player that brought us 2 titles. His tenured has run its course. So why not get younger, more athletic, & better defensively?
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#109 » by LateRoundFlyer » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:48 am

Anklebreaker702 wrote:I say do it. Pau is no longer the player that brought us 2 titles. His tenured has run its course. So why not get younger, more athletic, & better defensively?


Oh, maybe because...

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And there is no way Smith beats any of those four top names on that list even now?

(http://www.hoopsworld.com/2015-nba-free-agents/)
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Re: WT:Lakers have had internal discussions about Smith 

Post#110 » by DonJay21 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:34 am

Michael Lucky wrote:This board needs a separate thread dedicated to complaining about Pau since he is always the first to be blamed for everything that goes wrong. lol

anyways Pau showed that he is once again more than capable of spreading the floor in D'Antoni's offense as shown in last night's game.


I admit, Pau looked good in that first half of Basketball against the Suns. But once Suns stopped that open cut from 15 - 18 feet, Pau was not heard from for the rest of the game. Suns applied that pressure and that bleeding stop. Now you have a useless, 7 footer on the outside not doing jack. I'm for trading him while the Lakers still can. Pau will disappear in the playoffs if he's is not traded.
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