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Elephant In the Room - KB

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Post#46 Re: Elephant In the Room - KB
Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:18 pm by Doormatt

im pretty sure if you replaced kobe bryant with jj reddick this team would be without a doubt the worst in the league. manu is a different story since hes on an entirely different plain than reddick but we'd still be awful since manu can only manage 25mpg this year as opposed to kobe whos almost loggin 39 minutes a night.


again, for like the billionth time, kobe shooting the ball IS NOT the problem. the problem is that we turn the ball over and cant even get our bigs touches because if kobe isnt creating offense for himself or for others, the chances of a bad play happening in someone elses hands is ridiculously high. its magnified because the only person who can produce good offense right now is kobe and occasionally dwight. but in reality this is not kobes fault, he is not lebron james, he is not chris paul, he is not a player who continuously makes plays for others to generate great offense. thats NEVER who hes been. so to blame kobe for doing what hes been doing his whole career, and been quite successful at, is pretty dumb. the problem is that this team is just awful right now. people think that just because we have dwight and kobe that we are automatically good, its just not that simple, basketball is not that simple.
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Post#47 Re: Elephant In the Room - KB
Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:44 pm by PandGneverfold

When are lakers fans going to stop falling for the troll bait. Stevie wonder could see kobe is not the reason we are losing. Butt hurt shaq fans or undercover fans from other teams love to come here just to stir stuff up. The problem aint kobe.
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Post#48 Re: Elephant In the Room - KB
Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:52 pm by Doormatt

not everyone is trolling when they say that. clearly you havent been on this board long enough to realize that people truly do believe kobe's shooting or whatever is the prime reason we lose or underachieve. there are people who genuinely believe that, or at least something along those lines.
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Post#49 Re: Elephant In the Room - KB
Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:22 pm by PandGneverfold

Has kobe's shooting been a problem in the past? Yes ,but I refuse to believe that there are people out there lame enough to put this on him.
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Post#50 Re: Elephant In the Room - KB
Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:24 pm by Doormatt

lol of course they exist.
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Post#51 Re: Elephant In the Room - KB
Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:09 am by leeprettyp

People basketball IQ is low as hell. And they'll never get it. The guy leaves it on the court every night, even when he's hurt. This kinda thread is what u get when u dont understand basketball. Been a Laker fans since the 80's and I'm telling you people gonna realize not mistake of not appreciating this guy when he's gone. The guy says its all Kobe fault and his selfish but has a picture of Nick Van Exel up :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: . All I can say to that is on 3.....1.... 2...... 3.... "CANCUNNNNNNN". Now thats a selfish player (even tho I loved him when he first got here)
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Post#52 Re: Elephant In the Room - KB
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:00 pm by 4real

CharlieMurphy wrote:interesting stat: the Lakers are 2-7 when Dwight Howard turns the ball over 4 or more times.

If Dwight would just stop being so ball dominant we could win more games. Why does Dwight think that hero ball will work?

But seriously, here's an actual fun fact: Dwight is right at his career average of FGA, you know the career he built that made you all salivate about him being here. (Also, Ryan Anderson took more shots than Dwight last year :o, right?)

I wonder how Kobe is going to make Dwight take more shots than he ever did/wanted to while being the "number one option" in Orlando.

We all just really need to face facts: Dwight is not Shaq. He's not going to be a player that will average 20 shots a game even if we gave him the ball every time down the court. Furthermore, if we did give him the ball every time down the court, he still wouldn't average 20 FGA because he would get fouled. (Which brings me to another way he's different from Shaq: he's actually a worse FT shooter than Shaq. Crazy right?)

Think about this: Dwight averages 11.4 FGA this year and 10.5 FTA, so that's basically 16 shots/game. Shaq (during our championship years with him) averaged 19.5 FGA and 11.4FTA, that's basically 25 shots/game. (Of course that all doesn't take into account hack-a-shaq or hack-a-dwight, but it's still a good indication of how often they at least threw the ball at the basket in the attempt of a shot) But literally Shaq shot the ball almost 10 more times a game than Dwight does now. Or ever will for that matter, because Dwight's career high in FGA is 13.4.

Haven't you guys wondered why Dwight's always asking for lobs instead of entry passes? He can't score consistently with his back to the basket, plus if you lob it to him he's less likely to get fouled and be forced go to the place where he knows he's bound to fail.

The real elephant in the room is that Kobe can't play defense because he has to score the points that you all foolishly expected to come from Dwight as a product of some magical Shaq seance that would transform him into a player who makes 60% of his fts and also averages 20 FGA.

It's not going to happen. So either Dwight has to make more of his FTs so that Kobe doesn't have to score points to make up for the disparity, or the points are going to have to come from elsewhere. If the points aren't coming you can damn sure expect Kobe to do whatever he has to do to score, which is something we should all be thankful for.

Finally someone who understands basketball. Kobe is not the problem, false expectations of Howard is the problem. Dwight can only play one way. If you listen to his press conferences, you'll hear him saying how the team needs to play for him to be successful (basically Van Gundy's game plan). Kobe either has to commit to Dwight being the first option, or Lakers need to trade Dwight for Varejao.
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Post#53 Re: Elephant In the Room - KB
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:31 pm by dockingsched

posted this before i think but i'll post it again. this 1-10 stat when kobe scores more than 30 i think is something worth looking at, but its not something that should be used to blame kobe.

to me, this stat shows me that the lakers have to play as a team. they're only going to win if they all show up. the stat tells me that even kobe can't carry the entire team if they aren't carrying their own weight. it tells me that kobe shouldn't feel like its in the teams best interest for him to try to carry the load.

depending on your POV, it tells me that kobe should allow/force his teammates to carry their weight, and even if they lose, doing so gave them their best chance to win.
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Post#54 Re: Elephant In the Room - KB
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:28 pm by Sedale Threatt

Here is some context for that stat. Our records during the last two championship seasons when Bryant scored 30 or more points.

2008-09: 31-11, including 3-1 in the Finals
2009-10: 29-14

So it seems pretty obvious to me what's going on there. And I know you're not harping on that dock -- you raise some good points -- I'm just throwing it out there for contemplation.

It's the same chicken/egg debate that's been going on pretty much since he became a starter. There have obviously been countless games that Kobe has shot us out of over the years, and countless others where he's won them.

Personally, I've never been a huge fan of his style. Give me Magic or give me death. But with so many other issues going on with this steam, health being No. 1 with a bullet, some of the blame Bryant is getting doesn't make sense to me.
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Post#55 Re: Elephant In the Room - KB
Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:27 pm by Kilroy

Kobe, hero ball bores me. I've never been a fan, and there were plenty of times when I thought the Kobe shooting too much=lakers losses theory meant something...

And obviously, I think if he comes in and dominates the ball for 4 quarters, we're in trouble no matter what shooting percentage he ends up with...

But aside from maybe a couple games... Maybe the 2 before he broke 30k and a game or 2 under Brown, I don't see that from him this season.

It seems to me more like he's trying to shoot us back into games after we've already basically lost them.

If Kobe's the only able to get any offense going, how is telling him to pass more help us?
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Post#56 Re: Elephant In the Room - KB
Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:35 pm by Sedale Threatt

Kilroy wrote:Kobe, hero ball bores me. I've never been a fan, and there were plenty of times when I thought the Kobe shooting too much=lakers losses theory meant something...

And obviously, I think if he comes in and dominates the ball for 4 quarters, we're in trouble no matter what shooting percentage he ends up with...

But aside from maybe a couple games... Maybe the 2 before he broke 30k and a game or 2 under Brown, I don't see that from him this season.

It seems to me more like he's trying to shoot us back into games after we've already basically lost them.

If Kobe's the only able to get any offense going, how is telling him to pass more help us?


Couldn't agree more. I can't even count how many times over the years he's made some miraculous shot and my first reaction is, "What a crappy decision." Thousands.

I hated Jordan when he was playing, and I've always considered it some kind of sick joke that the torch bearer for my favorite team was his clone, diluted by Allen Iverson.

I just don't understand how he's seriously being expected to throttle back in order to get more out of some of the crap we're throwing out there with two of our four best players on the sideline.
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Post#57 Re: Elephant In the Room - KB
Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:12 pm by Effigy

Didn't the elephant leave last year when you traded her husband to Dallas?
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Post#58 Re: Elephant In the Room - KB
Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:40 pm by LAKESHOW

I personally think its a byproduct of the offense. Isnt DAntonis offensive system a "GREEN LIGHT" system? Where you virtually have the green light no matter where you are at and whenever you get the rock? Just go-go-go!

So if Kobe is shooting alot, hes definitely not going to stop if the coach preaches it. And if its a part of the style or system of play.
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Post#59 Re: Elephant In the Room - KB
Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:31 pm by supaflash

It's not really, it's a byproduct of injuries and depth. Dwight doesn't command doubles or get consistently deep position either right now.

I said this in another thread, Mello has a higher USG%, shoots more shots, less efficiently, with less assists and yet he doesn't take his teammates out of rhythm, they are not losing ball games...

I will say this though, Kobe's scoring and efficiency doesn't draw as much attention this year, teams aren't scared of it and he can't quite dominate like he did in 05-06, especially down the stretches. That alters how the defenses are approaching us.

It reminds me a bit of Duncan a bit ago where he was near his same stats and efficiency but people were saying he was doing it all 1v1, not drawing doubles etc.
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Post#60 Re: Elephant In the Room - KB
Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:07 am by madmaxmedia

LAKESHOW wrote:I personally think its a byproduct of the offense. Isnt DAntonis offensive system a "GREEN LIGHT" system? Where you virtually have the green light no matter where you are at and whenever you get the rock? Just go-go-go!

So if Kobe is shooting alot, hes definitely not going to stop if the coach preaches it. And if its a part of the style or system of play.


D'Antoni preaches taking open shots, otherwise moving the ball around to generate open shots. Not just shooting it whenever you want.

If in a hypothetical game, Kobe was doing hero ball iso's on every possession while everyone else stood around, holding the ball for 15 seconds and then taking a contested shot, then no that's not what D'Antoni wants or encourages (again that is strictly a hypothetical, not saying it is happening.)

OTOH, if the Lakers are moving the ball around, players are active, and Kobe happens to get 50 good scoring opportunities in a game, D'Antoni would likely be cool with Kobe taking 50 shots (because with 50 good open looks Kobe could probably drop 80 points.)
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