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Los Angeles Lakers Draft Rights Retained

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Ater Majok 6-11 233 2011 Rnd 2 Pick 28 Australia / South Sudan
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A turnaround is always possible

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Post#16 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:30 am by Marionettetc

Aki wrote:
Marionettetc wrote:
supaflash wrote:I honestly think we could run Metta at the 4 for long periods of time. He's faster then most 4s and just as strong and his range is on target this year. He would probably be fine defensively against 80% of the league this year and for the times he gets burnt by height/size/power he would get easy buckets on the other end. Look how much success NY, OKC, and Miami have had with their big SF playing PF. Another guy we could look at trading for in a multi team deal might be Gallinari, who has the size to play most 4s, is a good defender, and would stretch the floor.


That's a pretty good idea actually. 4's traditionally need some sort of post game but in A'ntoni's offense shooting is prioritized.

Do you think he could contest other power forwards though? Like defensively I mean, he hasn't had any lift in years and I'm not so sure he could handle the help defenses he would have to rotate to.


of course its a good idea... FOR THE REGULAR SEASON

what do you is going to happen in the playoffs if you let teams like OKC and miami play durant and lebron at the 4?


I'm not sure what you're getting at Aki, Ron guards those guys anyways.

Are you saying putting Durant and Lebron at the 4 opens up more threats at the 3?
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Post#17 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:35 am by Dr Aki

Marionettetc wrote:
Aki wrote:of course its a good idea... FOR THE REGULAR SEASON

what do you is going to happen in the playoffs if you let teams like OKC and miami play durant and lebron at the 4?


I'm not sure what you're getting at Aki, Ron guards those guys anyways.

Are you saying putting Durant and Lebron at the 4 opens up more threats at the 3?


the question is all about style of play.

do u think this lakers team can keep up with OKC or miami playing small ball?
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Post#18 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:37 am by Marionettetc

Aki wrote:
Marionettetc wrote:
Aki wrote:of course its a good idea... FOR THE REGULAR SEASON

what do you is going to happen in the playoffs if you let teams like OKC and miami play durant and lebron at the 4?


I'm not sure what you're getting at Aki, Ron guards those guys anyways.

Are you saying putting Durant and Lebron at the 4 opens up more threats at the 3?


the question is all about style of play.

do u think this lakers team can keep up with OKC or miami playing small ball?


Oh, no. I don't think they can keep up with either team anyways to be honest. I was just responding to Flash's hypothetical solution to our 4 situation this year while Pau and Nash are out.

I expect someone to be traded at some point, and until then I don't see the Lakers breaking .500
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Post#19 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:04 am by tugs

yep. agree on the team not having any identity. the Kobe ball hog teams back then had an identity, all Kobe. this team's like a confused teenager, torn if he's still a child, an adult, prefers to live the life of the opposite sex, etc.

hard to sort a problem when you actually have legit number of solutions. agree though that this should be Nash's team. Kobe playing (and willing) more off ball and Dwight being Dwight.
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Post#20 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:55 am by kobe808lak

Too many holes on this team, we're first round fodder.

They have neglected bringing in young talent for too long.
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Post#21 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:29 pm by semi-sentient

I can't think of any real solutions to our problems outside of moving Pau to the bench (or obviously doing a trade, which seems unlikely).

I've toyed around with the idea of moving Artest to the 4 as well. He's a much better option than either Pau or Jamison, and with the way he's shooting this year he actually adds a tremendous amount of value.

That would mean that we have to play Ebanks at the 3, which I'm not really opposed to. Ebanks hasn't proven that he can hit that outside shot consistently (neither did Barnes...), but his minutes have been anything but consistent so it's difficult to draw any conclusions. I'd give him a shot to see what he can do with Kobe and Howard drawing away defenders on a regular basis. He's a good, young defender and won't have any issues wearing out in our run-n-gun style of play.

Back to Pau off the bench -- it's something that the Lakers have apparently thought about. Jamison didn't show us much at the 3, but quite frankly I'd rather have Hill getting minutes at the backup 4 than Jamison. Hill is just as efficient a scorer and provides defense to an otherwise defensively-challenged bench. Meeks obviously plays the 2 and for the time being Morris will have to do as our backup PG until Nash returns and we have Duhon play the reserve role.

So I'd try something like this:

PG: Nash / Duhon
SG: Kobe / Meeks
SF: Ebanks / Jamison
PF: Metta / Hill
C: Howard / Gasol
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Post#22 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:01 pm by Sedale Threatt

John Hollinger gives us a 1.2 percent chance of making the Finals, and a 0.6 percent chance to win it. Which means we're in Lloyd Christmas territory.
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Post#23 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:19 pm by supaflash

I agree with Pau off the bench, it just makes so much more sense. Why try to put him out of position so much on offense AND wear him down running. I would think once Nash is back you want him working with Dwight to maximize screen roll as much as possible. So you bring Nash and Dwight out at around the 4 minute mark, keep Kobe in with Pau to run pick and roll and post sets with Pau, bring Nash and Dwight back in at beginning of the second. That way that bench stretch that has been letting us down is now Nash, Dwight, and mostly shooters. Pau can play some 4 with Nash probably more effectively when Kobe doesn't need the ball. Jamison gets stuck a few mins at the 3 but if he just stays aggressive he should be fine. You could bring Kobe and Metta back in around the 7 min mark and finish the quarter with Nash, Meeks, Kobe, Metta, Dwight...

I think it makes us better defensively, more balanced offensively, and able to keep the pace up a bit more.

Same lineup as Semi is proposing.
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Post#24 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:01 pm by madmaxmedia

Sedale Threatt wrote:John Hollinger gives us a 1.2 percent chance of making the Finals, and a 0.6 percent chance to win it. Which means we're in Lloyd Christmas territory.


So you're saying THERE'S A CHANCE!!!
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Post#25 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:02 pm by madmaxmedia

tugs wrote:yep. agree on the team not having any identity. the Kobe ball hog teams back then had an identity, all Kobe. this team's like a confused teenager, torn if he's still a child, an adult, prefers to live the life of the opposite sex, etc.

hard to sort a problem when you actually have legit number of solutions. agree though that this should be Nash's team. Kobe playing (and willing) more off ball and Dwight being Dwight.


I've heard many things about this team, but never that it is transsexual...

:lol:
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Post#26 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:14 pm by Kilroy

schizophrenic...

Are they a smash-mouth, in your face Kobe Iso, crushing team that can lock a team up with D?

Or are they a Dwight will do everything until it doesn't work then throw it outside for a 3 team?

Or are they the Phoenix Suns from Early '00s?

It's pretty clear none of those will work without some blending, but it seems like MWP, Kobe and Dwight could mesh pretty well, and Pau, Nash, and D'Antoni could mesh pretty well.

It's really like 2 teams right now... Kobe/Dwight/Hill/MWP could work under Bickerstaff and Nash/Jamison/Meeks/Duhon could work under D'Antoni... That leaves Pau, Blake, maybe Ebanks and Clark who haven't really found their stride with either group yet.

Given time and some more focus from the Coaching Staff, I think Kobe/Dwight could be a well oiled machine with MWP, Hill, and Ebanks assisting... I think given the proper offensive game play, Nash and Morris could make it work too, and Jamison could come in and anchor the scoring off the bench. Not sure where Meeks and Clark fit... But they seem to fit too, at least on paper.
But I think the Key is to focus on making the Dwight/Kobe inside/out game work first. Everything will fall into place after that... We have seen that Hill and MWP can fit nicely with them. Pau hasn't worked it out yet. And we haven't seen Nash get it yet.

I'm not sure Pau will ever work next to Dwight, but maybe the real problem with this team right now is the Nashtoni element. I don't think it's either one of their fault, but I wonder if focusing too much on setting the team up as a Nash-focused team, is the real unnecessary piece of the puzzle making everything fit poorly.

I think everyone expected Dwight to come is as the future leader and learn from Kobe how to be a true championship leader. I think we all thought Nash would come in to chase a Championship and use his endless skill and brain power to aid that transition, and Pau would be there too as a stretch-4... I don't think anyone expected Dwight and Kobe to be asked to figure it out while the team was retooled around 38yo Nash.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what it looks like when he comes back...

I just think that maybe we have more pieces and better pieces for more of a half-court style offense, than we do for a full court, up tempo offense... I'm not sure that works long term, even for guys like Dwight and Kobe.
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Post#27 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:01 pm by nashill

semi-sentient wrote:I can't think of any real solutions to our problems outside of moving Pau to the bench (or obviously doing a trade, which seems unlikely).

I've toyed around with the idea of moving Artest to the 4 as well. He's a much better option than either Pau or Jamison, and with the way he's shooting this year he actually adds a tremendous amount of value.

That would mean that we have to play Ebanks at the 3, which I'm not really opposed to. Ebanks hasn't proven that he can hit that outside shot consistently (neither did Barnes...), but his minutes have been anything but consistent so it's difficult to draw any conclusions. I'd give him a shot to see what he can do with Kobe and Howard drawing away defenders on a regular basis. He's a good, young defender and won't have any issues wearing out in our run-n-gun style of play.

Back to Pau off the bench -- it's something that the Lakers have apparently thought about. Jamison didn't show us much at the 3, but quite frankly I'd rather have Hill getting minutes at the backup 4 than Jamison. Hill is just as efficient a scorer and provides defense to an otherwise defensively-challenged bench. Meeks obviously plays the 2 and for the time being Morris will have to do as our backup PG until Nash returns and we have Duhon play the reserve role.

So I'd try something like this:

PG: Nash / Duhon
SG: Kobe / Meeks
SF: Ebanks / Jamison
PF: Metta / Hill
C: Howard / Gasol


I know dantoni will eventually explore this small ball idea. The good thing is, i think the team will be better defensively and offensively.
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Post#28 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:06 pm by Jajwanda

If Hill hits his midrange and doesn't become an offensive liability, the team's defense changes dramatically. The last time L.A. had two fast shot blocking options inside was when Bynum-Turiaf were together in 07. They had a block party.
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Post#29 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:24 pm by Dr Aki

Jajwanda wrote:If Hill hits his midrange and doesn't become an offensive liability, the team's defense changes dramatically. The last time L.A. had two fast shot blocking options inside was when Bynum-Turiaf were together in 07. They had a block party.


they also didn't have to contend with having to try to block every defensive play, our perimeter defense was head and shoulders better than our current perimeter defense
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Post#30 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:26 pm by Neutral 123

You would think this is the stretch where that would happen. They SHOULD be able to go 9-4 or 10-3 fairly easily over the next 13 games. But getting handled right now by the Cavs is not a good sign.
To them, it's like everyone wants the money they are never going to make. amluvinit2 on the tea party..
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Post#31 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:32 am by carlquincy

In a way, I'm glad (not really) that we kept losing these close games.

It gives a chance for the team to take a hard look at the problems, mainly defense.

Had we win these games, all the problems would most likely be swept under the rug, and we will be exposed in the playoffs.

Problem now is that we might not even make the playoffs, if things dun turn around soon.
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Post#32 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:00 am by Kilroy

Not that I disagree with what you're saying, but, we're not really losing close game though...
We're getting blown out, then Kobe takes over and gets us close again, but it isn't quite enough...
These games are lost in the first couple quarters.

Kobe talks about execution... It honestly doesn't look like there's anything to execute.
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Post#33 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:35 pm by kobe808lak

This team is a joke. They are going to have to play lights out down the stretch just to crawl into the playoffs and then get trounced in the 1st round.
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Post#34 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:24 pm by Anklebreaker702

Kilroy wrote:Right now this team lacks identity...
Is it Kobe's team? Is it Dwights team? Is it Nash's team?
What style of play does it represent?

Total speculation, but to me it's Nash's team now... I think much of what's been going on has been to make Nash happy/comfortable without pissing off Dwight... Because I think Nash is the most fragile... He's old, probably a little tired, and I think if we don't have a legit shot at a title this season, he'll retire.

But along with trying to get Dwight to resign with us, and trying to get Nash in the right mind-set, you still have uber-compettitive Kobe... Who while Nash is out, and while Dwight is returning to full strength from his back, is trying to lead and just win some games... But I don't think anyone is listening...

I've never been Kobe's biggest fan on here. I respect him and I think I value his career more here as it winds down... But to me, there isn't anyone else on the team that can tell these guys how to get into the right head-space to contend for multiple championships... But I get the feeling, nobody thinks they have to listen to him.

Maybe I just put on as big a tinfoil hat as the MensRea/Tien contingent, but that's just what I see...

So while I think this team could absolutely tear things up with the talent they have, I don't expect a Turnaround until they figure the basics out.

Hard to say its Nash's team. He's only played in two games. Dwight is clearly not the same player as of yet and Kobe is doing his thing. I really don't like the who's team is it scenarios too much because that's what tore the Kobe Shaq teams asunder.

I agree there has to be an identity & leader but that where I think it should stop. Then its all about team ball & team defense.

As far as moving Pau to the bench, its sounds good but Pau can be so fragile at times. If he responds correctly it may be a good idea.
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Post#35 Re: A turnaround is always possible
Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:15 pm by Jajwanda

I have a good feeling about the Knick game. At least against the Knicks L.A. can put Metta at the 4, Kobe at the 3 and that should help them on the defensive end as well as for spacing the floor. Hopefully that builds momentum to keep the team afloat.
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