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Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers fan's opinion)

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Post#46 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:40 pm by madmaxmedia

Sn0wman wrote:Fire him and hire who? Lakers would be paying Mr.Potato head, Pringles and the 3rd coach, wow...


Well, whoever it is the potato meme obviously isn't working. So we should try another vegetable.
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Post#47 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:42 pm by kobe808lak

D'Antoni is a terrible coach. I watched the majority of his time in NY and the same ish happened there. No accountability and awful defense.

He was simply a bad hire, thank Jim Buss for that. I would have taken just about any other coach. He basically only got the job because of his connection to Nash.

I don't understand why a coach forces his players to fit into a system that has never won a title. He should be creating a system in which his players can excel.

This is a half court team that should be able to grind defensively. There isn't a guy on the roster who can run up and down the court playing uptempo.

Doesn't help we have Duhon running the point and no Gasol.
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Post#48 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:56 pm by madmaxmedia

Gek wrote:There really isn't any reason why old NBA players can't run and gun. Ridiculous athleticism is not required, conditioning and comfortability is.


I don't know that they can outrun younger teams who also have good conditioning, especially over an 82 game schedule and presumably deep into the playoffs. NBA players do accumulate a lot of mileage over time, players over 30 can still be in great shape but their bodies are not the same as when they were 25-26.

It's not even their team speed on offense that I'm most worried about, it's their defense (although turnovers have a big effect here.) The team just looks slower than the other team on most nights.

I think we are seeing the effects of the Lakers low draft position over many years, due to either trades or good W-L records. Since 2005 they've had only 2 picks in the first 20- Javaris Crittendon and Andrew Bynum. Midlevel first round is where you normally can realistically hope to get good role or backup players, by the second round you are basically talking crapshoot.
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Post#49 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:03 pm by Michael Lucky

I love how people are still blame the D'Antoni hire on Jim Buss.
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Post#50 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:14 pm by TyCobb

dockingsched wrote:the lakers' problems are so beyond a coach right now its funny but sad how us as fans think phil jackson is the answer to the problems.

the problem is the players. they play uninspired, lazy, overconfident, and selfish. people like to put on their blinders but the last season phil was here where he himself was totally checked out, the lakers played just like this. not as bad obviously, but totally uninspired none the less. we want to forget how the mavs completely annihilated the lakers and forced them to resort to cheap shots? we want to forget how in the playoffs even phil couldn't do jack to inspire these guys (screaming at players, grabbing pau by the jersey).

i'm not going to single out any one player, but its on the players to play for each other and play as a team. i'm honestly hopefully someone like steve nash can help bring this team together with his style of play. some people have taken the stance that believing in nash is laughable, whatever though, i believe in nash more than any other player on this team, sue me.


I believe in Phil Jackson more than any one player on this team, sue me.
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Post#51 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:19 pm by Michael Lucky

Yet Nash would become a spot up shooter in Phil's system which is no good as well. Oh and before people say he's a great shooter so no big deal, Nash is actually better off the dribble than on catch and shoots. What I can't understand though is why D'Antoni cannot adjust his system into giving Pau more touches in the posts. It shouldn't be that hard. >.>
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Post#52 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:24 pm by TyCobb

You win rings with a half-court offense. You also conserve the players energy so that they can put out effort on defense. Nash is a smart dude, he can adapt to any type of offense. It's with him out that is exposing D'Antoni's lack of ability to coach. Nash is going to be able to conserve the players energy because he's going to be the one running around creating easy shots. However, he is 38 coming off an injury. If that's the type of player you want to put your trust in, then that's your call.
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Post#53 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:26 pm by IamBBAnalysis

Rischardo wrote:Hey guys, I'm a college basketball coach here in Chile, obviously I'm not at an NBA coach level, but I can surely say this:

1.- This team doesn't play TEAM basketball on offense. They just stand around waiting for Kobe or Dwight to create something. For what I've seen they have like 4 or 5 different plays, and they just don't execute them (not sound screening, little timing...), nor use those plays in a regular basis. Sure Kobe is dominant, sure Dwight's dominant, but a TEAM game has got to be played as a TEAM and not just iso plays for your best players, sure it helps, but NOT on 80% of the team's midcourt possesions. This team is so predictable on offense it's amazing. Scouting reports on the Lakers have got to be the easiest thing to do.

2.- This team doesn't play defense. It's obvious some of the players are bad defensive players, but even so, with a good defensive TEAM scheme some of this bad defensive players could hold their own in a regular basis. Sure there would be times when they get beat off the dribble, but with a solid scheme, you got the best defensive center in the league, so... Also, you see that;
- on off the ball screens, they're just inconsistent in WHAT to do, that's just poor coaching. How's possible that professional players, do not know if they gonna swith or if they gonna follow, or something. They just change the way they play this screens EVERY game I've seen so far.
- on Pick and Roll defense, rotations are just PLAIN AWFUL. They don't KNOW what to do on P&R situations. Again, that's without a doubt BAD coaching. P&R's got to be the most used play in basketball around the whole world, even high school players are constantly defending and attacking this play. It's just unacceptable, that this coach cannot teach proper rotations. Yesterday, for example, Dwight guarding Varejao, who screens for Irving. Howard doubles on the P&R, and Hill (who's a high energy, good defense type of guy), just stood there guarding his man, don't KNOWING that he had to rotate over Varejao to help Dwight. Obviously in that exact moment, Jordan made the mistake, but the Lakers get beat in P&R situations almost every game in a regular basis, so it's not only Jordan's fault and that makes me think of plain BAD coaching.

Finally; my question to D'Antoni is: if you don't teach defense, neither teach offense, than what type of a coach are you??
My answer would be; a JOKE of a coach...


You started off solid with your analysis then you kind of went into "lala" land with the defensive part. I've been watching the team pick and roll defense as well "coach" and I'm seeing something different. In the Cleveland game I saw an obvious emphasis on pushing the man with the ball towards the baseline. And they have a system in place to make it easy for players to know what to do in this situation...so the players don't have to think too much.

How I saw the Lakers get beat in the 1st half of the game was lazy "challenges" of guys who are running around off the ball. Irving was going to get his. The Lakers did ok against him...he was making great shots. Sure, there were a couple plays where guys got confused or made bad decisions but it was far from the norm. What I did see was Kobe and Artest leave Gee and Miles open on the perimeter because they did not put in "hard" hustle as a play went on for awhile.

But you're right the pick and roll defense has been a problem. I think they have been trying a few different things. They tried switching everything to start. It seemed to make everybody even lazier though. So pick and roll has been a problem but I see clear attempts to try to fix it and improvements in the last 3 games.

You're right on with the offense though the last few games. Its getting worse...while the defense has improved. Now they both are "ok/bad at different times" as opposed to one being terrible (defense) and the other being decent (offense).
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Post#54 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:35 pm by Jimbacosystem

Michael Lucky wrote:I love how people are still blame the D'Antoni hire on Jim Buss.



I don't think anyone is blaming Jim.... just stating facts... did Dr. Buss conduct all the phone interviews with Mike D? Everyone involved including Mitch and Jim said they took the idea of hiring Mike D to Jerry AFTER ALL THE PHONE INTERVIEWS so to say at a minimum it wasn't Jim or Mitch driving the bus is nonsensical...

If you believe the bs of the three headed decision making process you must at least acknowledge that the candidates are narrowed down by a minimum of Jim and Mitch...

I think what most people are concerned about when it comes to Jimbaco is the post Jerry era... at that point there will be absolutely NO ONE he has to consulate with on decisions... he will be the final decision maker

If you are comfortable with that fine... i doubt others are...
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Post#55 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:55 pm by madmaxmedia

Hey, maybe there's a future Jeremy Lin lanuguishing somewhere that we can pick up, and will help us reel off 7 wins in a row- it worked before with D'Antoni, what do you think???
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Post#56 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:59 pm by madmaxmedia

I highly doubt Jim was significantly involved at all during the search/interview process.

To me the only realistic question here is how much of the decision was Jerry and how much was Mitch (my guess is some combination of both, whether it was 50/50 or 70/30, etc.)

Jimbacosystem wrote:I don't think anyone is blaming Jim.... just stating facts... did Dr. Buss conduct all the phone interviews with Mike D? Everyone involved including Mitch and Jim said they took the idea of hiring Mike D to Jerry AFTER ALL THE PHONE INTERVIEWS so to say at a minimum it wasn't Jim or Mitch driving the bus is nonsensical...

If you believe the bs of the three headed decision making process you must at least acknowledge that the candidates are narrowed down by a minimum of Jim and Mitch...

I think what most people are concerned about when it comes to Jimbaco is the post Jerry era... at that point there will be absolutely NO ONE he has to consulate with on decisions... he will be the final decision maker

If you are comfortable with that fine... i doubt others are...
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Post#57 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:11 pm by Danny Darko

We definitely know Jim doesn't like the triangle. That would be a starting point to the issues.. then there is hearsay about what Phil wanted, so it gets cloudy, but really anything less than the greatest coach on earth was dumb by however many parties made that decision. I could see the logic in win now with an easy to learn system, but shoot at that rate, why bank on paying MD 12 mill when Bernie would have been able to do the same thing.
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Post#58 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:12 pm by Kilroy

dockingsched wrote:the lakers' problems are so beyond a coach right now its funny but sad how us as fans think phil jackson is the answer to the problems.

the problem is the players. they play uninspired, lazy, overconfident, and selfish. people like to put on their blinders but the last season phil was here where he himself was totally checked out, the lakers played just like this. not as bad obviously, but totally uninspired none the less. we want to forget how the mavs completely annihilated the lakers and forced them to resort to cheap shots? we want to forget how in the playoffs even phil couldn't do jack to inspire these guys (screaming at players, grabbing pau by the jersey).


Not disagreeing with you, in fact I agree whole-heatedly...
And I don't think Phil is the ultimate answer... I don't know who is really... But I think Phil and even Mike Brown for that matter, might have a better idea how to utilize Howard, Pau and Kobe effectively... And Phil might have an idea how to work in Nash.
Ultimately I'm not sure who the right coach is, but at some point, no matter at what level you are in sports, uninspired play from you're athletes is at least partially the coach's fault... Which then pushes up to the FO...

I fully agree that the decisions to hire/fire MB and to hire Mike D'Antoni were made by a group effort between Jerry, Jim, and Mitch, and I don't blame them for the decisions... I think I can understand why they made them...
But ultimately, at this point, it doesn't matter...

dockingsched wrote:i'm not going to single out any one player, but its on the players to play for each other and play as a team. i'm honestly hopefully someone like steve nash can help bring this team together with his style of play. some people have taken the stance that believing in nash is laughable, whatever though, i believe in nash more than any other player on this team, sue me.


I believe in Steve Nash too... I think he'll help, but he's 38 years old... If your star-studded team can't win without him on the court, you're probably in trouble. Because logic says, he's likely to miss some games.

And it's not like he's off hidden away in Swaziland or something... He's still on the team, in the locker room, and participating in practice in some capacity... If he doesn't have the ear of the team now, how much can we expect of him on the court?

It's on the players too... I blame them as well... But who cares about blame?
How do we fix it?

Nash is weeks away, we already have a PG who played well under D'Antoni in Duhon... Do we really need to find another Nash to make this work while he works himself back in shape? How is Pargo going to help?

I'm just not sure Nash helps quite enough... I just have a feeling he and D'Antoni thrive in an environment that most of the rest of our team can't work in.
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Post#59 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:19 pm by Jimbacosystem

madmaxmedia wrote:I highly doubt Jim was significantly involved at all during the search/interview process.

To me the only realistic question here is how much of the decision was Jerry and how much was Mitch (my guess is some combination of both, whether it was 50/50 or 70/30, etc.)

Jimbacosystem wrote:I don't think anyone is blaming Jim.... just stating facts... did Dr. Buss conduct all the phone interviews with Mike D? Everyone involved including Mitch and Jim said they took the idea of hiring Mike D to Jerry AFTER ALL THE PHONE INTERVIEWS so to say at a minimum it wasn't Jim or Mitch driving the bus is nonsensical...

If you believe the bs of the three headed decision making process you must at least acknowledge that the candidates are narrowed down by a minimum of Jim and Mitch...

I think what most people are concerned about when it comes to Jimbaco is the post Jerry era... at that point there will be absolutely NO ONE he has to consulate with on decisions... he will be the final decision maker

If you are comfortable with that fine... i doubt others are...


Don't know if you meant Jerry there but if you actually meant Jim that is totally inaccurate.

Mitch and Jim visited phil on saturday morning
Mitch and Jim did phone interviews with Dantoni
Jim at least met for 90 minutes on Sunday with Mike Dunleavy to discuss the job

to say Jim wasn't involved defy's all the reporting that is out there

don't know if i can post links but here is a pretty well documented time line

mods can remove if it isn't allowed

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1409 ... ach-search
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Post#60 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:32 pm by Kilroy

Jim's involved more because his dad is older and can't carry all the Ownership load... So he was definitely more involved in the interview process than Jerry.
The issue is whether or not Jerry had any veto power over the decision to hire Phil... Which it seems like he exercised.
It doesn't really matter... It's impossible to blame all our issues on any one person in our organization.
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Post#61 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:46 pm by madmaxmedia

Kilroy wrote:Jim's involved more because his dad is older and can't carry all the Ownership load... So he was definitely more involved in the interview process than Jerry.
The issue is whether or not Jerry had any veto power over the decision to hire Phil... Which it seems like he exercised.
It doesn't really matter... It's impossible to blame all our issues on any one person in our organization.


I think if Mitch co-signed on D'Antoni, then I doubt Jerry would have veto'ed even if it was his final say. If Mitch was all in on Mike, then I will chalk it up to a bad decision, and even good basketball guys make bad decisions sometimes.

But if Mitch really preferred Phil and either Jim OR Jerry chose Mike instead, then this is the much more egregious sin IMO. Mitch is the only real basketball guy out of the 3. Jerry has obviously been a great owner but that's a different thing than GM.
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Post#62 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 2:57 pm by Michael Lucky

The reports are that Jerry Pushed for D'Antoni because he wanted showtime back. I'm surprised people forgot about that.
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Post#63 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:03 pm by madmaxmedia

Michael Lucky wrote:The reports are that Jerry Pushed for D'Antoni because he wanted showtime back. I'm surprised people forgot about that.


I remember, but it's hard to parse what actually happened from that. It's all hearsay so it's kind of tough. i mean maybe Jerry mentions to Mitch and Jim that he would like to run again, as just a general statement (because hey Showtime was fun!) But if Mitch were to counter with a lot of fundamental reasons why that wouldn't work, that Jerry had to choose between running and winning, I think Jerry chooses winning.

Mitch came out and firmly backed the decision to go with D'Antoni, and carefully explained the entire thought process that went into it. But it's hard to say how much of that was being a good soldier, vs. what he truly believed.

My guess is that he would have preferred Phil, but that it was more 70/30 Phil vs. D'Antoni for him, and not necessarily 100/0. If he had been 100/0 then he would have pushed back a lot, and maybe Phil is the HC right now. But that's just my guess.
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Post#64 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:19 pm by Kilroy

They've talked about trying to get back to showtime for a while... They were talking about it with Rudy T.

That's a very lofty and illusive goal...

You have to look at the coach we had back then... Riley was NOT a players coach... He ruled with an iron fist.

He virtually ran his players into the ground. He's more like Sloan than Rudy T or D'Antoni.

And I think you have to be to get your team to exert super high energy on offense and still play solid D.

And just like Phil, Riley had some issues with Dr Buss, which I believe, ultimately led to his leaving.
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Post#65 Re: Fire coach Pringles thread (Not a Lakers
Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:32 pm by Run-MKE 311

Fire Pringles and go get who exactly????? Lakers fans are locked into this whether we like it or not.
Ball so hard.
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