What Exactly Is The Issue?

[Jetset]

Re: "what exactly is the issue?" - pau gasol, howard's not healthy, no bench, the system doesn't fit the players. it's not hard to tell when you watch a game.

this can't all be blamed on any one player, there's multiple problems. but when this season is all said and done and we miss the playoffs or go fishing in the first round everyone that's left on this roster and in the organization needs to take blame, but the last person to receive it had better be kobe bryant. typically i'd side with calling kobe out because typically it's his fault for actually shooting too much, but i'd like somebody in this thread or somebody outside of this fan base that has said something about kobe to tell me what he's supposed to do when nobody else around him is scoring or lacks the ability to score.

take anyone of our 16 losses so far this season and imagine how much worse it would be if kobe wasn't playing. pau's playing uninspired basketball, howard has zero lift and isn't using his strength to power through contact and finish plays; not to mention teams are zeroing in on fouling him because he's a free throw liability, nash isn't a scorer, meeks is as streaky as they come, so all that leaves is metta world peace. when ron artest is your second most consistent scorer then you seriously have a problem. and that's why nobody should have a problem with kobe shooting like he does, because thats the only way we're going to win.

[semi-sentient]

A New Year only marks the passing of more time. Following the Los Angeles Lakers' 103-99 loss to the Philadelphia 76ers on New Year's Day, Kobe Bryant had a simple answer for what has been plaguing the 15-16 Lakers this season: their age. "'Cause we're old as s---," said the 34-year-old Bryant when asked why a lack of energy has been a problem for L.A. all season. "What do you want? We just got to figure out how to play when we don't have that energy. We got to change things up a little bit defensively. We got to figure out what we want to do offensively, figure out what we want to do on nights when we don't have those legs or have that energy." ... "You just saw an old damn team," Bryant continued. "I don't know how else to put it to you."

Age isn't the Lakers problem. The Celtics last year managed the leagues best defense despite having Pierce (34), Allen (36), and KG (35) in their starting lineup.

The problem is minutes, and that's on the coaching staff. Kobe at 38.8 is plain stupid, and this is his 2nd consecutive season playing more than 30 per game. At least Phil had him down to 33 in 2011, which was perfect. Meeks is playing the right amount of minutes but by us having Kobe play at the 3 we're forcing him to play far more than he needs to. Metta and Ebanks should be splitting minutes there.

Metta and Pau are both over 34 a game and neither of them need to be playing more than 30 minutes. I mean we have Hill that can play 25-30 mpg at the 4 so why in the world are we running Gasol into the ground? Give him 14 minutes at center and perhaps another 16 at pf.

[Jetset]

I have a feeling Mitch will push to trade Gasol before the deadline. It seems like a lot of people are concerned after last nights loss but for some reason I just brushed it off. I don't know if thats a good thing or its the fact that I'm just used to this happening throughout the season.

i didn't watch the game last night but it's been incredibly clear all season and only became more clear when nash came back that pau will be the one to go. it's just not working anymore. many people are stuck in the past of how he came and how we instantly became title contenders seemingly overnight, but that same player isn't here anymore and we've been waiting on him to come back and he just hasn't. he's still an effective player but none of us will see it unless he gets a fresh start elsewhere.

[Slava]

I wasn't even upset with Pau on what he did and did not do on offense, the 5 consecutive lay ups he gifted to the Sixers pretty much nailed the coffin shut for us. The Sixers were actually so damn inept that Richardson and Turner missed 4 straight FTs and left us with a chance till the last but one possession when Pau again, let Hawes shoot on open jumper.

That's a straight up liability if you can see one. I appreciate what he has done in the past but he shouldn't really be demanding to be played in the crunch time when he is costing us wins. At some point you need to accept some accountability for your ineptness and atleast foul the guy hard. He's living on borrowed time and I fully expect him to be traded before the Feb deadline.

[richboy]

Pau isn't the issue in my books because I fully expect when he is traded that he go to another team and put up 18 and 11 and 4 assist and suddenly be the same player we saw in the past. Kobe said it. After winning the title this team decided Bynum was the go to post guy and it hasn't been the same since for Pau. I don't think there anything physically different from Pau Game 7 in the finals to now. What is difference is instead of getting 25 touches in the post he is getting under 10. Some games under 5. You can call it an excuse but things like shooting were just the icing on Gasol's game. Icing is good with the cake. You can't just serve Icing. Gasol and Dwight can not establish any rhythm. They get a touch here. They get a touch there. Nothing consistent. Nobody that has played the game could expect Gasol to play well in his current circumstances.

[twix2500]

I just dont understand why your management really cant figure this out. Its obvious the system is not fit for the roster. The question should be why is it so important to play an uptempo style?? Instead of playing the style that give the lakers the biggest advantage?

San Antonio and the Miami Heat all won championships by playing an efficient power halfcourt offense.

Age is not an excuse, even at Lakers team age and playing poorly they should be still above .500. Yes the team needs some changes, but they do not need that much changing and playing this bad. This is unexcusable.

The Lakers need to hire a coach who can coach a system that fits the roster. Something like the Robinson Duncan days, or the Wade and Shaq days type of offense. Play efficient offense, draw fouls, and that will allow the bigs to be able to get back on defense and set. With the Lakers size, this team should be a great defensive team when the defense is set.

[Jetset]

Pau isn't the issue in my books because I fully expect when he is traded that he go to another team and put up 18 and 11 and 4 assist and suddenly be the same player we saw in the past. Kobe said it. After winning the title this team decided Bynum was the go to post guy and it hasn't been the same since for Pau. I don't think there anything physically different from Pau Game 7 in the finals to now. What is difference is instead of getting 25 touches in the post he is getting under 10. Some games under 5. You can call it an excuse but things like shooting were just the icing on Gasol's game. Icing is good with the cake. You can't just serve Icing. Gasol and Dwight can not establish any rhythm. They get a touch here. They get a touch there. Nothing consistent. Nobody that has played the game could expect Gasol to play well in his current circumstances.

i expect that to happen too, but the bottom line is that pau isn't going to put those numbers up here in a lakers jersey. for whatever reason he's just not done so since our last championship run, him being traded helps him because it gives him a clear mind in a new place and it helps us by getting younger players that can fit into the system. it's a win-win. iirc, pau was still the second option the 10-11 last season and that's the season he inexplicably fell off. bynum didn't become the go to post guy until after we were swept and jackson retired and brown was hired. that's when pau started moving further away from the post.

as far as them consistently not getting the ball, i'm sure it 100% has to do with the fact that they do nothing with the ball. pau flails if the ever slightest thing grazes him which often results in the other team getting the ball. dwight can't have an offensive rhythm because dwight doesn't have an offensive game. either that or he has a very predictable one. 90% of the time he gets the ball in a post up he'll run underneath the basket for a lay up, the pf of the other team rotates off pau and doubles howard. howard tries to power through contact and gets the foul, that same exact sequence is how howard has already shot 312 fts 2 months into the regular season so far. so really, howard leading the league in ft attempts by a very staggering margin shows that he does in fact get the ball.

I just dont understand why your management really cant figure this out. Its obvious the system is not fit for the roster. The question should be why is it so important to play an uptempo style?? Instead of playing the style that give the lakers the biggest advantage?

San Antonio and the Miami Heat all won championships by playing an efficient power halfcourt offense.

Age is not an excuse, even at Lakers team age and playing poorly they should be still above .500. Yes the team needs some changes, but they do not need that much changing and playing this bad. This is unexcusable.

The Lakers need to hire a coach who can coach a system that fits the roster. Something like the Robinson Duncan days, or the Wade and Shaq days type of offense. Play efficient offense, draw fouls, and that will allow the bigs to be able to get back on defense and set. With the Lakers size, this team should be a great defensive team when the defense is set.

i'd say pride at this point. how bad would it look on pat riley if riley fired spoelstra, hired another coach, then turned around and fired that same coach they just hired all in the same season?

my best bet is that they'll fire d'antoni in the offseason and build some sort of team in the offseason to appease dwight.

[DrewBynum77]

Posted this on the gamethread:

they shot 3/22 from the 3-point line. I don't think we could beat the bobcats by shooting as bad as this. and we couldn't post up d12 because he needs spacing, so he shot 1/7.

Anyways, he got put more energy into holding the **** ball. come on. it's getting sad right now at how easily he gets stripped.

and if we aren't shooting there's no point into running 1/5 PnRs, too.

knowing this D'Antoni should've focused on D by benching Gasol or went all in with offense, by playing 3 guards + artest at the 4 and d12 as our only bigman. He did neither and we lost.

I dunno why but I cannot help but rationalize losses like this one, guys. Seems very logical to me... I only hope we can get to the PO injury free then we'll see.

I didn't know pau asked to not be benched in crunch time, so that's D'Antoni's reason... I like what Mike is doing but soon enough he'll have to set his mind and forget about anyone's personal feeling.

I like what he's doing, seriously.

Hopefully we can get something good by trading Gasol if not then hope he can get his confidence back (getting harder and harder).

[myersia]

I posted this in the trade thread but what do you guys think of this honestly.

Toronto gets a low post scorer and a slasher/defensive sf
Utah free's up time for Favors to start and gets a solid big man in Gasol who goes back to his normal position C and can post up
Lakers get younger and "energy" with Milsap and a young wing in Fields
Washington get's a shooter and young talent in Bargnani while shedding Ariza's contract from their cap.

Tor In: Jefferson, Ariza
Tor Out: Bargnani, Fields, Calderon

PG: Lowry
SG: Derozan
SF: Ariza
PF: E. Davis
C: A. Jefferson

Utah In: Gasol, Calderon
Utah Out: Milsap, Jefferson

Pg: Williams/Calderon
Sg: Hayward
Sf:M. Williams
Pf: Favors/Williams
C: Gasol/Kanter

LAL In: Milsap, L. Fields
LAL out: Gasol

Nash/Blake/Morris
Morris/Fields
Kobe/MWP
Milsap/MWP
Dwight/Hill

Wash In: Bargnani
Wash out: Ariza

J. Wall
Beal
Vesely
Bargnani
Nene

[DEEP3CL]

What is the exact point of this thread ?

There is no need to over analyze things, the team and management should know what they are. And it has nothing to do with coaching. A lot of this is at the players feet. They have to solve it.

[Jetset]

There is no need to over analyze things, the team and management should know what they are. And it has nothing to do with coaching. A lot of this is at the players feet. They have to solve it.

has not it occurred to you the possibly that the players on the roster don't even fit the system? wouldn't that not be a coaching issue? you can't put a team in a system that's not suited to their strengths and expect them to do well, then blame the players for not adjusting when it doesn't. you had the players before you had the coach.

[IamBBAnalysis]

Re: "what exactly is the issue?" - pau gasol, howard's not healthy, no bench, the system doesn't fit the players. it's not hard to tell when you watch a game.

this can't all be blamed on any one player, there's multiple problems. but when this season is all said and done and we miss the playoffs or go fishing in the first round everyone that's left on this roster and in the organization needs to take blame, but the last person to receive it had better be kobe bryant. typically i'd side with calling kobe out because typically it's his fault for actually shooting too much, but i'd like somebody in this thread or somebody outside of this fan base that has said something about kobe to tell me what he's supposed to do when nobody else around him is scoring or lacks the ability to score.

take anyone of our 16 losses so far this season and imagine how much worse it would be if kobe wasn't playing. pau's playing uninspired basketball, howard has zero lift and isn't using his strength to power through contact and finish plays; not to mention teams are zeroing in on fouling him because he's a free throw liability, nash isn't a scorer, meeks is as streaky as they come, so all that leaves is metta world peace. when ron artest is your second most consistent scorer then you seriously have a problem. and that's why nobody should have a problem with kobe shooting like he does, because thats the only way we're going to win.

Kobe has very consistent and is definitely not "the problem". However, the ball is stopping in his hands and if you watch closely when Kobe gets the ball and makes a play he has MANY opportunities to give wide open shots to teamates but almost never passes. That has to be very frustrating to teamates who are trying to pass when they get doubled.

Its like this...If you give a player a wide open look it really helps their confidence and gets them going. And it makes the defense scramble. Not passing bails the defense out.

As far as the defense...Nash is terrible at fighting through screens. If your philosophy on D is to ask Nash to do this and then ask Gasol to help and recover...your dead before you start. Any good pick and roll guard and big will kill them. And it tires both of them out to. How about some doubling to get the ball out of Holiday's hands? Or a "show" by the big instead of a full commit?

[IamBBAnalysis]

There is no need to over analyze things, the team and management should know what they are. And it has nothing to do with coaching. A lot of this is at the players feet. They have to solve it.

has not it occurred to you the possibly that the players on the roster don't even fit the system? wouldn't that not be a coaching issue? you can't put a team in a system that's not suited to their strengths and expect them to do well, then blame the players for not adjusting when it doesn't. you had the players before you had the coach.

System? Anybody bringing this up please stop. You're wrong.

Gasol got several touches around the hoop and could not capitalize. Howard the same. He tried to make spin moves and quick moves to the hoop and failed to do anything once he got there...except luckily getting fouled a couple times. They were terrible. And they let that affect the defense as well.

No one could shoot the 3 ball. Whether off of post up kick outs or pick and roll kick outs...they simply could not hit shots and space the floor and the defense just packed the paint.

Nash was forced to score because of the defense and did not look to shoot or want to shoot enough. Kobe holds the ball too much.

All player issues. The "system" may very well not be "optimal" for a championship team but this team should be winning at a very high regular season click with this SYSTEM. They just aren't. Terrible individual performances all around. But it was one game too. They looked excellent in the Portland game.

Issues relate to chemistry and if the actual players are going to play up to their ability or not. They have not so far this season.

[Jetset]

Re: "what exactly is the issue?" - pau gasol, howard's not healthy, no bench, the system doesn't fit the players. it's not hard to tell when you watch a game.

this can't all be blamed on any one player, there's multiple problems. but when this season is all said and done and we miss the playoffs or go fishing in the first round everyone that's left on this roster and in the organization needs to take blame, but the last person to receive it had better be kobe bryant. typically i'd side with calling kobe out because typically it's his fault for actually shooting too much, but i'd like somebody in this thread or somebody outside of this fan base that has said something about kobe to tell me what he's supposed to do when nobody else around him is scoring or lacks the ability to score.

take anyone of our 16 losses so far this season and imagine how much worse it would be if kobe wasn't playing. pau's playing uninspired basketball, howard has zero lift and isn't using his strength to power through contact and finish plays; not to mention teams are zeroing in on fouling him because he's a free throw liability, nash isn't a scorer, meeks is as streaky as they come, so all that leaves is metta world peace. when ron artest is your second most consistent scorer then you seriously have a problem. and that's why nobody should have a problem with kobe shooting like he does, because thats the only way we're going to win.

Kobe has very consistent and is definitely not "the problem". However, the ball is stopping in his hands and if you watch closely when Kobe gets the ball and makes a play he has MANY opportunities to give wide open shots to teamates but almost never passes. That has to be very frustrating to teamates who are trying to pass when they get doubled.

Its like this...If you give a player a wide open look it really helps their confidence and gets them going. And it makes the defense scramble. Not passing bails the defense out.

i believe the phrase "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" is very applicable in this matter. kobe is who he is at this point, he's going to shoot a ton. but he's also shown that he will defer as long as those around him are getting there's, and that's what he did the 08-09 and 09-10 seasons with pau. why was pau frequently getting the ball then and not now? because pau's shown he's not that player anymore. the same sentiment applies for everyone else, they can't do anything when it's their time to step up so kobe does it all.

[Jetset]

There is no need to over analyze things, the team and management should know what they are. And it has nothing to do with coaching. A lot of this is at the players feet. They have to solve it.

has not it occurred to you the possibly that the players on the roster don't even fit the system? wouldn't that not be a coaching issue? you can't put a team in a system that's not suited to their strengths and expect them to do well, then blame the players for not adjusting when it doesn't. you had the players before you had the coach.

System? Anybody bringing this up please stop. You're wrong.

Gasol got several touches around the hoop and could not capitalize. Howard the same. He tried to make spin moves and quick moves to the hoop and failed to do anything once he got there...except luckily getting fouled a couple times. They were terrible. And they let that affect the defense as well.

No one could shoot the 3 ball. Whether off of post up kick outs or pick and roll kick outs...they simply could not hit shots and space the floor and the defense just packed the paint.

Nash was forced to score because of the defense and did not look to shoot or want to shoot enough. Kobe holds the ball too much.

All player issues. The "system" may very well not be "optimal" for a championship team but this team should be winning at a very high regular season click with this SYSTEM. They just aren't. Terrible individual performances all around. But it was one game too. They looked excellent in the Portland game.

Issues relate to chemistry and if the actual players are going to play up to their ability or not. They have not so far this season.

let's see, what is d'antoni's system? a run up and down the court team with shooters spaced out on the wing, and a center that could be capable of knocking down jump shots. i believe that's correct right? now take a look at our roster, more specifically our players at the 4 & 5 positions. does it sound like we have the players to adequately run that offense? that's why pau's actual role on the team has come under scrutiny.

and sounds like to me you're talking about the game vs. the sixers, can't speak for that because i didn't watch it. i'm talking about every single game since d'antoni has been lakers head coach. it's clear the personnel is not currently on the roster to run his play, why do you think so much of an emphasis is being put on whether or not d'antoni is the same stubborn minded coach that he was in new york or if he'll bend his system to cater to the players?

[Kilroy]

Truth be told, aside from age, Pau isn't the Big that fits poorly in D'Antoni's system, Dwight is.

If you truly believe that Pau can in fact still play the Center position at a high level, he'd be more suited to D'Antoni's system than Dwight.

Which makes the situation all the more confusing... Why, if you're ostensibly trying to build an environment that could induce Dwight to stick around, why make this particular coaching choice?

Dwight isn't a shooting Big Man... D'Antoni isn't a Defensive minded coach... Dwight needs a post focused half court offense to thrive...

It's an odd fit for supposedly the future face of the franchise.

Nash could make it work but why go for a temporary solution if you're grooming a guy for the future?

[GeneralNash]

Hate to admit it being a Laker fan and a Kobe fan but he is not doing a great job of leading his team in any respect. I see a great performance from him overall, but from a leadership standpoint, I have seen nothing but negative comments from Kobe to the media. Things like this:

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/stor ... ack-energy

To me this isn't good leadership. Boston was an old and pretty slow team when they won their last ring, it's not like it hasn't been done before. Kobe is creating excuses and making stupid remarks. You can't call your team old and slow and expect your team to gain confidence in itself. Yes they are older and slower than a lot of teams, but that isn't the reason they are losing. Do you really want to ingrain "old and slow" into your teammates heads? Negative reinforcements won't help this team succeed.

First off I'm no Kobe hater but a big fan. I actually rank him just below Lebron this season from an individual player stand point.

Hate to see Kobe waste a season, and Nash waste the last two seasons of his career. The leader needs to believe they can contend and win. And right now, Kobe has that "Loser" mentality and is spreading it like a virus. It starts with the confidence and the belief you can win every night, and a leader should be instilling that in his team.

Edit January 7 2013: Kobe making things even more difficult between him and dwight in this article:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baske ... bled=false

Dwight Howard and Kobe Bryant just can’t get along, and there’s a team in Brooklyn that might be waiting to pick up the pieces.

A league source told the Daily News that the Lakers stars got into a heated exchange following a New Year’s Day loss to the 76ers, and Bryant went for a low blow – referencing and agreeing with Shaquille O’Neal’s criticisms of Howard being soft.

Howard was restrained from going at his teammate, according to the source, and there have been rumblings from the center’s camp that he’s been unhappy with Bryant since earlier in the season.

Three days after the altercation, following a disheartening loss to the Clippers, Howard complained about the lack of chemistry on the Lakers. It was a comment seemingly directed at Bryant, who is averaging a league-high 22 shots despite playing with three potential Hall of Famers.
The Mike D’Antoni-coached Lakers fell to 15-18 after losing at home to the Denver Nuggets, 112-105, Sunday night despite Howard’s 26 rebounds. Bryant led L.A. with 29 points but took 26 shots.

“Look at the difference between our team and (the Clippers),” Howard said. “They just play together. They share the ball. Everybody’s excited when something happens.”

Howard again hinted at the disconnect on Saturday. There were always concerns over whether Bryant, a no-nonsense veteran, and Howard, a playful man-child, could co-exist.

Why in the world is Bryant even talking or entertaining the whole shaq duo. I think Kobe is stuck in the past. I thought it was promising that he said he wanted to take Dwight to that next level, but it is clear Kobe's man crush on Pau Gasol is going to do the Lakers in.

[Kobe System]

It is what it is. And Kobe won't sugar coat it. That's what I like about him.

[hermes]

it comes with age, old people just whine and complain about being old

not much we can do without a fountain of youth or something

[crazyeights]

For a supposed Laker fan you sure don't get Kobe's tone.

He's not even being negative or angry, instead he's pointing out a fact and saying the team has to overcome it.

http://youtu.be/5QpUmBc6sSQ