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Why not try the high screen pick and roll with nash and kobe

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Post#1 Why not try the high screen pick and roll wit
Mon Jan 7, 2013 1:41 am by GeneralNash

Pick and rolls with nash and kobe would be more lethal than nash/howard.

Just like we saw pheonix run with nash/amare. It will work better with nash / kobe rather than nash / dwight.

Kobe is one of the best finishers in the game. Pau cannot finish any more. I think if we run kobe and nash in the high pick and roll this will not only get kobe easy buckets but dwight, pau, and our perimeter players better shots. Nash will also get a lot of wide open threes. Dwight will benefit as well when kobe does get in the paint and teams have to commit. This will make the game so much easier in the half court set on offense that it may translate into more energy on the defensive end. It is something to try I think. Kobe will draw so much people off the pick and roll lakers could destroy teams on the offensive end..

This would be a good scheme instead of watching metta dribble for 15 seconds and put up a three.



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Post#2 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Mon Jan 7, 2013 1:50 am by LA_Sports

Kobe and Nash pick and rolling off each other will not lead to them both playing better defense. This team needs to concentrate on defense first.
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Post#3 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Mon Jan 7, 2013 1:58 am by GeneralNash

LA_Sports wrote:Kobe and Nash pick and rolling off each other will not lead to them both playing better defense. This team needs to concentrate on defense first.


Disagree this team needs to get better anywhere they can. We need to accept this team is not going to turn into a top 10 defensive team. We have yet to exploit our greatest strength.

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Post#4 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:06 am by dockingsched

agree with LA_sports. going into tonight's game lakers had the 6th best offense, 21st in defense. issue is defense. less turnovers helps, but for the most part defense is the culprit of the poor season.
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Post#5 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:09 am by richboy

The Phoenix PNR was great because they had 3 shooters spotting up at behind the arch. It made it impossible to cheat and send a third person to defend the PNR. With Nash ability to shoot it was pick your poison. Trap it and its a wide open 3. Play the role man Nash was wide open. Play Nash dunk for Amare. Switch it and Nash can either take the big or he can get the ball to Amare down low who will have the PG on his back.

The Laker PNR has not been that hard to defend because they have Gasol or Jordan Hill in the game. The defense can cheat and send a third man to defend the PNR. Not really fearing a long Gasol jumper or a 20 footer from Jordan Hill. That is not poison to them.

Running PNR with Kobe and Nash won't change anything. In reality most teams would just switch the play since many teams guards can defend both position. For example against OKC they would just let Westbrook guard Kobe and Thabo slide to Nash. If they didn't want to switch with both Dwight and Gasol in the game they would just send a third guy to defend the PNR knowing they aren't great shooters.

Honestly do we need another way to get Kobe shots.
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Post#6 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:10 am by Slava

Those Nash turnovers are coming because he's getting the screens set close to the sideline which is unfamiliar for him. He gets trapped way too easily on those.

So far Kobe is the only guy that's benefitted from Nash!
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Post#7 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:20 am by LA_Sports

GeneralNash wrote:
LA_Sports wrote:Kobe and Nash pick and rolling off each other will not lead to them both playing better defense. This team needs to concentrate on defense first.


Disagree this team needs to get better anywhere they can. We need to accept this team is not going to turn into a top 10 defensive team. We have yet to exploit our greatest strength.

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Kobe and Nash should concentrate on pushing the opposing guards out and slowing them down in the hopes of allowing our bigs enough time to set up a defensive wall. No straight lines to the basket, make them work to get in so the bigs can rotate and help. Thats why Dwight, Hill, and Pau are getting constantly burned.
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Post#8 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:21 am by Asianiac_24

LA_Sports wrote:Kobe and Nash pick and rolling off each other will not lead to them both playing better defense. This team needs to concentrate on defense first.
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Post#9 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:25 am by GeneralNash

richboy wrote:The Phoenix PNR was great because they had 3 shooters spotting up at behind the arch. It made it impossible to cheat and send a third person to defend the PNR. With Nash ability to shoot it was pick your poison. Trap it and its a wide open 3. Play the role man Nash was wide open. Play Nash dunk for Amare. Switch it and Nash can either take the big or he can get the ball to Amare down low who will have the PG on his back.

The Laker PNR has not been that hard to defend because they have Gasol or Jordan Hill in the game. The defense can cheat and send a third man to defend the PNR. Not really fearing a long Gasol jumper or a 20 footer from Jordan Hill. That is not poison to them.

Running PNR with Kobe and Nash won't change anything. In reality most teams would just switch the play since many teams guards can defend both position. For example against OKC they would just let Westbrook guard Kobe and Thabo slide to Nash. If they didn't want to switch with both Dwight and Gasol in the game they would just send a third guy to defend the PNR knowing they aren't great shooters.

Honestly do we need another way to get Kobe shots.


I disagree. PNR with Nash / Kobe opens up a lot more dimensions on the offensive end and it should be obvious to you or anyone. Running it with Nash and Pau for example like everyone thought was a great idea...doesn't work, because one, pau cannot shoot, cannot finish, and let's face it the defense won't commit to defend him because no one respects him.

If Kobe is the one rolling to the basket however, teams will have no option but to commit. You'll have 2-3 defenders trying to get to kobe before he reaches the paint. This means lobs / shuffle passes to Dwight, Jordan Hill, cross court open passes to meeks for long wide open looks, etc. And this isn't a way to get Kobe more shots at all. This would get everyone involved because it would cause the defense on other teams to break down. The point is you want the guy that's rolling to the basket to be your best offensive player and a good facillitator. There is no better finisher than Kobe, so he needs to be in that PNR with Nash.
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Post#10 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:36 am by LA_Sports

I understand if the get in a flow it might pick up the energy on both sides of the court, but Kobe and Nash are already having a very efficient offensive year.

Every night people on this board guess which opponent is going to light this team up, and it is always a guard. Until there is a refocussing on defense in the guard spots this team will have trouble. Our bigs get in foul trouble coming over late or get burned with a dunk when they have to help away from their man and the ball is dumped off.

Only offensive thing that could help the Lakers is if they could get another perimeter player that can create his own shot similar to Kobe. That would free up the ball for everyone.
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Post#11 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:51 am by GeneralNash

LA_Sports wrote:I understand if the get in a flow it might pick up the energy on both sides of the court, but Kobe and Nash are already having a very efficient offensive year.

Every night people on this board guess which opponent is going to light this team up, and it is always a guard. Until there is a refocussing on defense in the guard spots this team will have trouble. Our bigs get in foul trouble coming over late or get burned with a dunk when they have to help away from their man and the ball is dumped off.

Only offensive thing that could help the Lakers is if they could get another perimeter player that can create his own shot similar to Kobe. That would free up the ball for everyone.


Last thing this team is another ballstopper like World Peace. Seriously how many times have we seen Metta go one on one for 15 seconds with his man, brick a three, or lose the ball. Way too many times. Metta should be a catch and shoot player.

And Running Kobe and Nash in the PNR as a regular scheme will allow players like Metta and Meeks, to just spot up and shoot, rather than have to create space and shoot.

Let's face it the offense is still stagnant. With the talent on the floor this team should be scoring 120 points. Yes the defense needs work, but to ignore improving the offense just because it is acceptable will only bring more losses.
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Post#12 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:55 am by tenten

I don't think they run plays.
They are just trying to run and gun. But since they're too slow, it'll end up with Kobe iso.

Heck, I bet 95% of lakers half court play are either:
Kobe Iso
MWP Iso
Pau PnP jump shot
Hack of Dwight
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Post#13 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Mon Jan 7, 2013 3:31 am by LA_Sports

GeneralNash wrote:
LA_Sports wrote:I understand if the get in a flow it might pick up the energy on both sides of the court, but Kobe and Nash are already having a very efficient offensive year.

Every night people on this board guess which opponent is going to light this team up, and it is always a guard. Until there is a refocussing on defense in the guard spots this team will have trouble. Our bigs get in foul trouble coming over late or get burned with a dunk when they have to help away from their man and the ball is dumped off.

Only offensive thing that could help the Lakers is if they could get another perimeter player that can create his own shot similar to Kobe. That would free up the ball for everyone.


Last thing this team is another ballstopper like World Peace. Seriously how many times have we seen Metta go one on one for 15 seconds with his man, brick a three, or lose the ball. Way too many times. Metta should be a catch and shoot player.

And Running Kobe and Nash in the PNR as a regular scheme will allow players like Metta and Meeks, to just spot up and shoot, rather than have to create space and shoot.

Let's face it the offense is still stagnant. With the talent on the floor this team should be scoring 120 points. Yes the defense needs work, but to ignore improving the offense just because it is acceptable will only bring more losses.


Nobody said anything about a ball stopper. The team won't benefit offensively from a guy that will pound the ball for 20 seconds. They need a slasher that create his own shot to get the defense moving and others involved. Someone that can cut through the defense with the ball and is a real scoring threat. Someone like the guys that constantly light up the lakers. Meek, Duhon, Jamison, and Ebanks can't do that reliably off the the bench at all. When Kobe is on the bench only play available is to dump the ball into the bigs and kick it out to waiting shooters.
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Post#14 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Mon Jan 7, 2013 3:33 am by TheKiteDesigner

I can't believe you guys still think its an offensive issue. The Lakers scored 105 points tonight and still lost. Guess again on why they have a poor winning % and an even worse one vs teams over .500? They can't get stops. They make avg NBA guards look like all stars every night. Kobe and Nash can give you about 40 points a night but will give up anywhere from 45-50 to opposing guards. PnRs with Nash/Kobe is far from the solution.
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Post#15 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Mon Jan 7, 2013 5:17 am by GeneralNash

Interesting stat....in the 2nd half Lakers had a stretch where they could not score a field goal in 9 minutes. Scream defense all you want...but if LA was able to score 8 points in those 9 minutes, la could of won.
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Post#16 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Mon Jan 7, 2013 8:48 am by DubZzZzZ

high pick and roll with a big and small moves a big out of the paint and gives either one of the two a speed or size advantage if the defender switches. If you run the pick and roll with 2 guards there is no advantage and either guard will be driving the paint with both big men defenders standing there..
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Post#17 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Mon Jan 7, 2013 12:09 pm by TheKiteDesigner

GeneralNash wrote:Interesting stat....in the 2nd half Lakers had a stretch where they could not score a field goal in 9 minutes. Scream defense all you want...but if LA was able to score 8 points in those 9 minutes, la could of won.


Interesting stat...
Lakers
PPG 102.9 (5th out of 30)
Off Rtg 108.8 (6th out of 30)
Off efficiency 106.4 (6th out of 30)

Opposing PPG 100.8 (26th out of 30)
Defensive Rtg 106.6 (21st out of 30)
Def efficiency 103.2 (19th out of 30)

But you're right, it's an offensive problem.
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Post#18 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Mon Jan 7, 2013 6:28 pm by IamBBAnalysis

TheKiteDesigner wrote:
GeneralNash wrote:Interesting stat....in the 2nd half Lakers had a stretch where they could not score a field goal in 9 minutes. Scream defense all you want...but if LA was able to score 8 points in those 9 minutes, la could of won.


Interesting stat...
Lakers
PPG 102.9 (5th out of 30)
Off Rtg 108.8 (6th out of 30)
Off efficiency 106.4 (6th out of 30)

Opposing PPG 100.8 (26th out of 30)
Defensive Rtg 106.6 (21st out of 30)
Def efficiency 103.2 (19th out of 30)

But you're right, it's an offensive problem.


Its definitely a defensive problem. However, he's completely right the Lakers are not getting enough out of the pick and roll. The Lakers should be the best team in the league on offense and they are not. And they should be an average or better team on defense and they are not. I see the above based on personnel and abilities.

Right now on offense Nash is not allowed to be super effective, either is Gasol or Howard. Its just not "quite right" with any of them. Although they are still very effective.
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Post#19 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Mon Jan 7, 2013 7:05 pm by GeneralNash

TheKiteDesigner wrote:
GeneralNash wrote:Interesting stat....in the 2nd half Lakers had a stretch where they could not score a field goal in 9 minutes. Scream defense all you want...but if LA was able to score 8 points in those 9 minutes, la could of won.


Interesting stat...
Lakers
PPG 102.9 (5th out of 30)
Off Rtg 108.8 (6th out of 30)
Off efficiency 106.4 (6th out of 30)

Opposing PPG 100.8 (26th out of 30)
Defensive Rtg 106.6 (21st out of 30)
Def efficiency 103.2 (19th out of 30)

But you're right, it's an offensive problem.


Never said it was an offensive problem. I am simply pointing out that the offense could be much better...and would allow this team to win games despite their horrid defense. Yes the defense is a problem as well. But this team would still be winning if they maximized their offensive potential.
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Post#20 Re: Why not try the high screen pick and roll
Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:37 am by rand0m

GeneralNash wrote:
TheKiteDesigner wrote:
GeneralNash wrote:Interesting stat....in the 2nd half Lakers had a stretch where they could not score a field goal in 9 minutes. Scream defense all you want...but if LA was able to score 8 points in those 9 minutes, la could of won.


Interesting stat...
Lakers
PPG 102.9 (5th out of 30)
Off Rtg 108.8 (6th out of 30)
Off efficiency 106.4 (6th out of 30)

Opposing PPG 100.8 (26th out of 30)
Defensive Rtg 106.6 (21st out of 30)
Def efficiency 103.2 (19th out of 30)

But you're right, it's an offensive problem.


Never said it was an offensive problem. I am simply pointing out that the offense could be much better...and would allow this team to win games despite their horrid defense. Yes the defense is a problem as well. But this team would still be winning if they maximized their offensive potential.


I agree with you here. Seems like an easier task to jump a few spots in offensive efficiency then defense. We just need a way to get wins at
this point.
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