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Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this article)

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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#101 » by Emperor_Earth » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:37 am

Imadogg wrote:
SlavaMedvedenko wrote:
Imadogg wrote:This thread was bumped because Kobe couldn't guard Andre Miller or..... why


Yes, one bad game and suddenly its an epidemic.

I was making a point against the dude who bumped thread 2 posts before me in case you didn't notice. As if a thread about Kobe's horrible defense made weeks/months ago is nullified and didn't make sense at the time because he's been playing better since then. So address your post towards him thanks


Calm down Imadogg.. Slava is backing you there. Reread it imo.
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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#102 » by Imadogg » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:50 am

Didn't see it like that sorry, also the guy before him thought I was serious so threw me off.

Real bump was by some dude who thinks that since we've been winning lately, it means the thread made 2 months ago has been spreading lies about Kobe.
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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#103 » by leeprettyp » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:25 pm

No not lies but this was an over-exaggerated topic/thread from the beginning. The dude can and does still defend. Just because a guy loses his man on defense 2-3 times in a game (Which happens to every single elite wing player in the NBA who's required to carry their team get League Pass) doesn't mean he's a horrible defender. Also he does close on these shooters, their just making shots (Chauncy Billups the Clippers game for example), Sorry a 20year NBA body and legs doesn't close out on them as fast as you may like. Then on top of that we have a coach who is already running him into the ground minute wise it all adds up. Horrible defender is really taking it tooooo far IMO. So Andre Miller snuck around him and got a layup (probably thought Dwight was down there), it happens wasn't the reason we lost that game. So if we made 12 more free throws and shot a respectable % would we still be having this thread bumped back up. Like Michael Cooper was saying on 710 ESPN radio recently, "Kobe is still a great defender." And I agree with that statement, is he what he once was of course not but this is the case of being spoiled as a fan and just finding a way to finger point Kobe as an issue.
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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#104 » by Jakay » Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:59 pm

So yeah, carriage returns aka "the return button". Totally a thing too.

Just sayin.

See this is two already.









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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#105 » by Tee212 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:42 pm

leeprettyp wrote:No not lies but this was an over-exaggerated topic/thread from the beginning. The dude can and does still defend. Just because a guy loses his man on defense 2-3 times in a game (Which happens to every single elite wing player in the NBA who's required to carry their team get League Pass) doesn't mean he's a horrible defender. Also he does close on these shooters, their just making shots (Chauncy Billups the Clippers game for example), Sorry a 20year NBA body and legs doesn't close out on them as fast as you may like. Then on top of that add that we have a coach who is already running him into the ground minute wise it all adds up. Horrible defender is really taking it to far IMO. So Andre Miller snuck around him and got a layup (probably thought Dwight was down there), it happens wasn't the reason we lost that game. So if we made 12 more free throws and shot a respectable % would we still be having this thread bumped back up. Like Michael Cooper was saying on 710 ESPN radio recently, "Kobe is still a great defender." And I agree with that statement, is he what he once was of course not but this is the case of being spoiled as a fan and just finding a way to finger point Kobe as an issue.



exactly why i bumped this pathetic thread. dog guy clearly had a kobe hate agenda and needed professional writing to validate his reasoning. I love bumping this thread when kobe does well.
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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#106 » by dockingsched » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:11 pm

at the time this thread was spot on, kobe was playing atrocious defense. it was infuriating cause it wasn't a lack of ability, it was a lack of simply trying.

that kobe has picked things up a bit on the defensive end since is great for all lakers fans.
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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#107 » by Jakay » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:34 pm

Tee212 wrote:
leeprettyp wrote:No not lies but this was an over-exaggerated topic/thread from the beginning. The dude can and does still defend. Just because a guy loses his man on defense 2-3 times in a game (Which happens to every single elite wing player in the NBA who's required to carry their team get League Pass) doesn't mean he's a horrible defender. Also he does close on these shooters, their just making shots (Chauncy Billups the Clippers game for example), Sorry a 20year NBA body and legs doesn't close out on them as fast as you may like. Then on top of that add that we have a coach who is already running him into the ground minute wise it all adds up. Horrible defender is really taking it to far IMO. So Andre Miller snuck around him and got a layup (probably thought Dwight was down there), it happens wasn't the reason we lost that game. So if we made 12 more free throws and shot a respectable % would we still be having this thread bumped back up. Like Michael Cooper was saying on 710 ESPN radio recently, "Kobe is still a great defender." And I agree with that statement, is he what he once was of course not but this is the case of being spoiled as a fan and just finding a way to finger point Kobe as an issue.



exactly why i bumped this pathetic thread. dog guy clearly had a kobe hate agenda and needed professional writing to validate his reasoning. I love bumping this thread when kobe does well.


But with Carriage returns right?
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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#108 » by IamBBAnalysis » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:39 pm

leeprettyp wrote:smh everybody on the team made mistakes on the defensive end against Denver and we single out just Kobe. AMAZING some of these people call themselves Lakerfans. Its obvious the biggest problem was our coach on a back to back ran an 8 man rotation with older legged players smh. All our younger atheltic legs were on the bench and he didnt even play them smh.


Maybe. But also keep in mind the Lakers played better in the 1st half then second. The damage was done early because Kobe, Nash, Howard were making lots of mistakes and the team cannot get back on D at all in transition.

You could say its coaching though in terms of they were not prepared of how to play against Denver. They were forcing passes instead of valuing the ball. So it looked like they were not prepared. But they did make the adjustment at half time.
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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#109 » by milesfides » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:24 pm

It only has been a detriment because Dwight hasn't been the basket protector that Laker fans (and Kobe himself) are expecting. Whether because of health or attitude, Dwight's been very selective with good help defense. And even when he does get that block, it doesn't deter the other teams from attacking.

Also, D'Antoni hasn't come up with a solid defensive plan - and the front office hasn't supplied the personnel to play solid defense.

Personally, I think it's obvious Kobe's defense will never be that good for 82 games. It's over, deal with it. He can do it for a few possessions a game, maybe even an entire game in the playoffs. But the guy can't even bend down the way he used to; he plays like he's protecting his body and not pushing it to avoid injury.

If you expect Kobe to be a defensive presence night in and night out, wake up. Not going to happen at his age. Especially with our problems on offense, we still rely on Kobe way too much on offense. When you see other teams executing down the stretch, contrast that with our team - Nash still hands the ball off to Kobe at the top of the key. Nice, D'Antoni.

But really, Kobe does get a pass. You can criticize his defense all you want. But the reality is that great offensive players on great teams almost always gets help defensively. Pippen always took the tougher defensive assignment. There's a great video on youtube of a young Kobe burning Jordan. Jordan tells Pippen, you guard him. Lol.

Even young players today. Kevin Durant never really has to play defense unless he finds himself matched up with Lebron or Kobe through happenstance. Sefolosha always takes the tough assignment, and Ibaka and Perkins protects the lane. Of course Durant makes scoring so easy, because all his teammates do their job, and Scottie Brooks does a great job of getting guys to do their roles and dirty work so Durant could do what he does best.

Kobe's 3000 years old and still an offensive genius. He's succeeding despite the fact that D'Antoni's offense stunted all the other "stars" on the team - because of his vision, fundamentals, footwork and unlimited moves.

Get guys who'll do the dirty work. Dwight's a bitch.

Give me guys like Joakim Noah, Tyson Chandler, Serge Ibaka, even Pekovic and Asik.

Guys who are happy to rebound and play defense.

But whatever. You guys can keep complaining about Kobe's defense, but the reality is that when you compare Kobe to Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Stephon Marbury, and the rest of his generation, you all need to shut the hell up and just appreciate his game.

I'm glad there are guys like Jordan Hill and Earl Clark who've taken advantage of the fact that they're playing next to Kobe Bryant, playing their asses off, and succeeding where more accomplished players are bitching and whining. Nobody gives a crap about you clowns.

If our team from top to bottom did have players with heart, who sacrificed, who accepted their roles, our season never would have been such a damn struggle.

Also, shout out to Lamar Odom, who never came close to reaching his individual potential, but sacrificed his own game to raise his team's, en route to becoming a champion. That's the heart of a champion.
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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#110 » by leeprettyp » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:55 pm

milesfides wrote:It only has been a detriment because Dwight hasn't been the basket protector that Laker fans (and Kobe himself) are expecting. Whether because of health or attitude, Dwight's been very selective with good help defense. And even when he does get that block, it doesn't deter the other teams from attacking.

Also, D'Antoni hasn't come up with a solid defensive plan - and the front office hasn't supplied the personnel to play solid defense.

Personally, I think it's obvious Kobe's defense will never be that good for 82 games. It's over, deal with it. He can do it for a few possessions a game, maybe even an entire game in the playoffs. But the guy can't even bend down the way he used to; he plays like he's protecting his body and not pushing it to avoid injury.

If you expect Kobe to be a defensive presence night in and night out, wake up. Not going to happen at his age. Especially with our problems on offense, we still rely on Kobe way too much on offense. When you see other teams executing down the stretch, contrast that with our team - Nash still hands the ball off to Kobe at the top of the key. Nice, D'Antoni.

But really, Kobe does get a pass. You can criticize his defense all you want. But the reality is that great offensive players on great teams almost always gets help defensively. Pippen always took the tougher defensive assignment. There's a great video on youtube of a young Kobe burning Jordan. Jordan tells Pippen, you guard him. Lol.

Even young players today. Kevin Durant never really has to play defense unless he finds himself matched up with Lebron or Kobe through happenstance. Sefolosha always takes the tough assignment, and Ibaka and Perkins protects the lane. Of course Durant makes scoring so easy, because all his teammates do their job, and Scottie Brooks does a great job of getting guys to do their roles and dirty work so Durant could do what he does best.

Kobe's 3000 years old and still an offensive genius. He's succeeding despite the fact that D'Antoni's offense stunted all the other "stars" on the team - because of his vision, fundamentals, footwork and unlimited moves.

Get guys who'll do the dirty work. Dwight's a bitch.

Give me guys like Joakim Noah, Tyson Chandler, Serge Ibaka, even Pekovic and Asik.

Guys who are happy to rebound and play defense.

But whatever. You guys can keep complaining about Kobe's defense, but the reality is that when you compare Kobe to Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Stephon Marbury, and the rest of his generation, you all need to shut the hell up and just appreciate his game.

I'm glad there are guys like Jordan Hill and Earl Clark who've taken advantage of the fact that they're playing next to Kobe Bryant, playing their asses off, and succeeding where more accomplished players are bitching and whining. Nobody gives a crap about you clowns.

If our team from top to bottom did have players with heart, who sacrificed, who accepted their roles, our season never would have been such a damn struggle.

Also, shout out to Lamar Odom, who never came close to reaching his individual potential, but sacrificed his own game to raise his team's, en route to becoming a champion. That's the heart of a champion.



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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#111 » by leeprettyp » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:15 pm

IamBBAnalysis wrote:
leeprettyp wrote:smh everybody on the team made mistakes on the defensive end against Denver and we single out just Kobe. AMAZING some of these people call themselves Lakerfans. Its obvious the biggest problem was our coach on a back to back ran an 8 man rotation with older legged players smh. All our younger atheltic legs were on the bench and he didnt even play them smh.


Maybe. But also keep in mind the Lakers played better in the 1st half then second. The damage was done early because Kobe, Nash, Howard were making lots of mistakes and the team cannot get back on D at all in transition.

You could say its coaching though in terms of they were not prepared of how to play against Denver. They were forcing passes instead of valuing the ball. So it looked like they were not prepared. But they did make the adjustment at half time.



This was a fair statement but their are 2 teams in basketball in IMO that the pick n roll offense wouldn't benefit us more than just running a simple triple post (triangle-type) of offense. Thats Miami and Denver. They will just attack Nash or Kobe and force Dwight to make a play. Now thats another issue Nash and Kobe try to give Dwight bounce passes and lead passes but Dwight only wants lobs smh. That Denver game I just felt we'd been better serve just milking Dwight, Kobe, Metta in the post and forcing them to double then kicking out for shots. if Dwight is on the weakside and Kobe (Gasol also if he was playing) is posting on the strong side, it forces JaVale Mcgee to stay home on Dwight and not cheat over to protect the rim. At this stage of his career Nash wont consistently get into the paint on offense unless Dwight sets a SOLID pick for him . But then thats another reason why were turning the ball over...Dwight obviously isn't 100% but he just doesn't Dive hard to the rim off the pick n roll. Then on defense I blame Mike D for not running a ZONEEEEEEE defense on a team that is horrible 3 pt shooting team. His chuck a 3 offense played right into their hands and turned the game into a track meet
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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#112 » by dockingsched » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:50 pm

at the time of this thread's creation, kobe wasn't even trying on defense. i just can't fathom giving him a pass or trying to blame d'antoni or howard for that. that just isn't a fair pov.
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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#113 » by leeprettyp » Fri Mar 1, 2013 12:09 am

dockingsched wrote:at the time of this thread's creation, kobe wasn't even trying on defense. i just can't fathom giving him a pass or trying to blame d'antoni or howard for that. that just isn't a fair pov.



Thats what u believe. It was obvious to me that the man was tired and was trying to get rest/catch up wind at times (umm being the coaches never took him out the game). Like I said if you ever focused on Kobe's matchup alone he more than 95% of the time outscores the person he's defending that game (at times 2 people). I'm not saying he hasnt dropped the ball on the defensive end at times. But I really think alot of you are missing the point here. Kobe's defensive miscues alone arent the reason why we struggled this season. And for the reasons I stated in earlier post is why I feel people are just finger pointing Kobe because its easy to do. I've seen every SINGLE player on this team make defensive mistakes but of course its only Kobe's fault
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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#114 » by Michael Lucky » Fri Mar 1, 2013 12:17 am

yeah because if Kobe scores 30 and Corey Brewer or Delfino scores 29 on him, that's ok......
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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#115 » by Doormatt » Fri Mar 1, 2013 12:22 am

dockingsched wrote:at the time of this thread's creation, kobe wasn't even trying on defense. i just can't fathom giving him a pass or trying to blame d'antoni or howard for that. that just isn't a fair pov.


effort really has nothing to do with it tbh, kobe is just old and not very good defensively. i feel like ive been saying this forever but it has nothing to do with effort really.

in february when kobe has apparently been playing with effort: 112.2 drtg - second worse on the team ahead of only jamison.

http://bkref.com/tiny/Tl0ZC

in january: 109.5 drtg - 7th on the team (ignoring ebanks and blake who barely played) barely ahead of nash.

http://bkref.com/tiny/hxuw2

btw in december he was 7th as well (110.9 drtg) and in november he was 3rd (98.8 drtg), so the teams defense was actually better with kobe the 2 months before this thread was made.

so you can say kobe has looked better and been playing with more effort, which i agree with, yet it has had essentially zero effect on the teams defense. so either giving effort is overrated, or it doesnt really matter what kind of defense kobe plays, he just isnt that important to this teams overall defense.
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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#116 » by dockingsched » Fri Mar 1, 2013 12:26 am

leeprettyp wrote:
dockingsched wrote:at the time of this thread's creation, kobe wasn't even trying on defense. i just can't fathom giving him a pass or trying to blame d'antoni or howard for that. that just isn't a fair pov.



Thats what u believe.


it is def. what i believe. i watched him on defense, he didn't try.

It was obvious to me that the man was tired and was trying to get rest/catch up wind at times (umm being the coaches never took him out the game).


he magically got the energy to play defense when d'antoni started playing him on the ball, so may be it wasn't just about being tired.

Like I said if you ever focused on Kobe's matchup alone he more than 95% of the time outscores the person he's defending that game (at times 2 people).


that really has nothing to do with anything.

I'm not saying he hasnt dropped the ball on the defensive end at times. But I really think alot of you are missing the point here. Kobe's defensive miscues alone arent the reason why we struggled this season. And for the reasons I stated in earlier post is why I feel people are just finger pointing Kobe because its easy to do. I've seen every SINGLE player on this team make defensive mistakes but of course its only Kobe's fault


well i don't think kobe's the reason alone that this team struggled, and i really hope no one else does. he's also certainly not the only one to play terrible defense or the only one to play with no effort on defense.
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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#117 » by PurpleGold » Fri Mar 1, 2013 1:18 am

milesfides wrote:It only has been a detriment because Dwight hasn't been the basket protector that Laker fans (and Kobe himself) are expecting. Whether because of health or attitude, Dwight's been very selective with good help defense. And even when he does get that block, it doesn't deter the other teams from attacking.

Also, D'Antoni hasn't come up with a solid defensive plan - and the front office hasn't supplied the personnel to play solid defense.

Personally, I think it's obvious Kobe's defense will never be that good for 82 games. It's over, deal with it. He can do it for a few possessions a game, maybe even an entire game in the playoffs. But the guy can't even bend down the way he used to; he plays like he's protecting his body and not pushing it to avoid injury.

If you expect Kobe to be a defensive presence night in and night out, wake up. Not going to happen at his age. Especially with our problems on offense, we still rely on Kobe way too much on offense. When you see other teams executing down the stretch, contrast that with our team - Nash still hands the ball off to Kobe at the top of the key. Nice, D'Antoni.

But really, Kobe does get a pass. You can criticize his defense all you want. But the reality is that great offensive players on great teams almost always gets help defensively. Pippen always took the tougher defensive assignment. There's a great video on youtube of a young Kobe burning Jordan. Jordan tells Pippen, you guard him. Lol.

Even young players today. Kevin Durant never really has to play defense unless he finds himself matched up with Lebron or Kobe through happenstance. Sefolosha always takes the tough assignment, and Ibaka and Perkins protects the lane. Of course Durant makes scoring so easy, because all his teammates do their job, and Scottie Brooks does a great job of getting guys to do their roles and dirty work so Durant could do what he does best.

Kobe's 3000 years old and still an offensive genius. He's succeeding despite the fact that D'Antoni's offense stunted all the other "stars" on the team - because of his vision, fundamentals, footwork and unlimited moves.

Get guys who'll do the dirty work. Dwight's a bitch.

Give me guys like Joakim Noah, Tyson Chandler, Serge Ibaka, even Pekovic and Asik.

Guys who are happy to rebound and play defense.

But whatever. You guys can keep complaining about Kobe's defense, but the reality is that when you compare Kobe to Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Stephon Marbury, and the rest of his generation, you all need to shut the hell up and just appreciate his game.

I'm glad there are guys like Jordan Hill and Earl Clark who've taken advantage of the fact that they're playing next to Kobe Bryant, playing their asses off, and succeeding where more accomplished players are bitching and whining. Nobody gives a crap about you clowns.

If our team from top to bottom did have players with heart, who sacrificed, who accepted their roles, our season never would have been such a damn struggle.

Also, shout out to Lamar Odom, who never came close to reaching his individual potential, but sacrificed his own game to raise his team's, en route to becoming a champion. That's the heart of a champion.

Awesome post, I got an erection while reading it.
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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#118 » by milesfides » Fri Mar 1, 2013 7:17 am

How many 34-year-old guards are playing tough, effective defense every night? Right.

And how many of those guards have as much responsibility as Kobe on offense? Right.

So get over it.

Like I said, Kobe is capable of playing great D on a few possessions. Like we saw during the all-star game, we can expect in key moments during the playoffs, Kobe will do it.

But no, it's not going to happen with regularity. Period. It's over. That part of his career is gone, over and done with.

It's up to the rest of his team to play their roles and sacrifice. Like all championship teams.

What do you guys expect from arthritic knees on borrowed time with a ton of mileage? Perimeter defense is the most challenging, demanding task in the league. That's why nobody is really that good at it. That's why those players are specialists and do almost nothing else on offense except space the floor.

Stop trying to squeeze juice from dry fruit. It's a miracle Kobe's doing what he is on offense, and absolutely saving our season. Nash, D'Antoni, D-Ho, and Pau Gasol haven't met expectations at all.

Anyways, go ahead and keep bitching about it. Not going to change. That's like starting a thread on Dwight Howard's free throws costing us games. Actually that has nothing to do with age...maybe if he spent more time practicing free throws...
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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#119 » by Tee212 » Fri Mar 1, 2013 11:22 am

you nailed it miles, thats why im fing sick of his threads and siggies are filled with kobe hate. get over it.
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Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this articl 

Post#120 » by leeprettyp » Fri Mar 1, 2013 12:13 pm

milesfides wrote:How many 34-year-old guards are playing tough, effective defense every night? Right.

And how many of those guards have as much responsibility as Kobe on offense? Right.

So get over it.

Like I said, Kobe is capable of playing great D on a few possessions. Like we saw during the all-star game, we can expect in key moments during the playoffs, Kobe will do it.

But no, it's not going to happen with regularity. Period. It's over. That part of his career is gone, over and done with.

It's up to the rest of his team to play their roles and sacrifice. Like all championship teams.

What do you guys expect from arthritic knees on borrowed time with a ton of mileage? Perimeter defense is the most challenging, demanding task in the league. That's why nobody is really that good at it. That's why those players are specialists and do almost nothing else on offense except space the floor.

Stop trying to squeeze juice from dry fruit. It's a miracle Kobe's doing what he is on offense, and absolutely saving our season. Nash, D'Antoni, D-Ho, and Pau Gasol haven't met expectations at all.

Anyways, go ahead and keep bitching about it. Not going to change. That's like starting a thread on Dwight Howard's free throws costing us games. Actually that has nothing to do with age...maybe if he spent more time practicing free throws...



I'm just happy to read post like these. Man makes me feel better that their are actually people who still "Get it." The "Kobe's fault," topic was suppose to go away after he won back to back titles without Shaq. But hey if people think an 20year old NBA body and multiple surgery knees can still lock down for +40mins and dominate on offense for +40mins, go ahead and finish that xbox360 game on NBA2k12. I really believe people overlooked what happened during that 2010 championship run. Phil said it was the biggest reason he came back to coach the following season. Watching Kobe being hurt like that with multiple injuries and practically not being the same player he once was going forward. Guy got multiple knee draining during that playoff run (Why till this day I till people that was the reason he shot so bad that game 7 of the NBA finals, he had nothing left in the legs) . But lets continue to focus on the 2-3 few possessions every single game that Kobe loses the wing player he's assigned to because their running around a million picks and trying to tire him out (Its a smart coaching strategy). It makes me wonder if people have ever seen an aging NBA Superstar before or let alone been a Laker fan for longer than 2008. Because even in Jordan's last chapter of his career in Chicago younger wing players were going at him and he also had many defensive miscues. Thing is MJ had Pippen, Artest hasnt been consistent on the defensive end this season, seems Mike D has allowed him to focus just on the offensive side of the ball. If you are a longtime Laker fan you would already know when the lights are the brightest come playoff time and we need a defensive clamp job on a certain player in key moments of a game Kobe will take on that challenge and be 100% committed to doing the job. He's just not in his prime anymore and can do EVERYTHING for +40mins every single night especially in this chuck a 3 fast pace offense we run. The players never get a chance to rest on offense because of that
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