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Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (check this article)

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Post#46 Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (ch
Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:20 pm by leeprettyp

GeneralNash wrote:It is just not defense. For what is supose to be a potent offensive minded team...lakers are not. Lakers should be winning half of their games by having a superior offense...but they just lack offensive superiority against most teams.

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To me its because this roster isnt fit for this offensive scheme. Also he is only playing 8 people a game smh. At this point players have tired legs.

Tired legs = Clanked jumpers
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Post#47 Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (ch
Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:22 pm by richboy

PandGneverfold wrote:One player is not responsible for this teams defense, our sucky defense takes a total team effort,including the coaching staff.



Usually would agree. But when your name is Kobe Bryant. You say I'm all about winning. I'm the leader of this team. You set the tone. You take the credit for the wins but everyone else was at fault for the losses. Don't work that way.

Let be perfectly honest as I'm already hearing well other players defense sucks too. It is a big difference to your defense sucks to your not even trying. What player on this roster isn't even trying on defense.

You need to bring it on defense even more than you do on offense. If that means you only average 25 a game then that is fine. But you have to bring it on the defensive end first. I said it days ago. With some criticizing me for being hard on Kobe. The obvious you criticize Kobe you must be a hater. At least 6 games this year that have been somewhat close. That I'm watching the game and wondering what in the world Kobe is doing on defense. Actually every game has been like that but at least 6 games that to me if Kobe gave even a small amount effort on defense they win easy. I'm watching Denver play by play guys laugh at how Kobe was just ignoring Corey Brewer. JVG last night. Wish he was the coach. This article. Finally some people willing to call Kobe out. I doubt Mike D will say anything though.
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Post#48 Re: Kobe is the problem
Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:23 pm by GeneralNash

I thought this too but have now decided that the coach is the real problem. These guys are giving it everything they have these past two to three games...but still a loss. It is not a lack of effort, energy, talent, or youth...it is just the wrong people to do what dantoni wants to do. Unless Dantoni starts developing a new system...or drastically modify the current system to maximize the personnel he has....it is going to continue to be bad regardless of the leadership on the court.

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Post#49 Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (ch
Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:24 pm by semi-sentient

Good article. Hopefully we see more articles criticizing his defense so that they eventually get back to him. Perhaps he'll get ticked off and take more pride in playing defense.
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Post#50 Re: Kobe is the problem
Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:26 pm by leeprettyp

PandGneverfold wrote:
ball teacher wrote:Kobe is a future hall of famer, a 5 time NBA champion, a league MVP, a scoring champ, a defensive player of the year, but he is also a man with a huge ego and little leadership skills. Kobe will get a pass because he's the face of the franchise and he has all the accolades I already mentioned, but when you look at what's happening with this team, the blame falls on the team leader and the coaches, and in this case I'm putting more blame on Kobe because this is a league where superstars get coaches canned all the time, the superstars take over games, their words hold heavy weight in huddles and on the floor, and Kobe has rarely shown traits of great leadership in his whole career.
He has had beef with Shaq, Bynum says Kobe stunted his development, and now Howard is making his displeasure known. If you will explain away each of these issues Kobe has had and attempt to justify them in anyway on behalf of Kobe, then you are letting your homerism cloud your judgement. Kobe is a great player/scorer, but that's all he is, he needs a stacked team to win because he doesn't have the leadership ability to make his teamates better, instead he gets under hs teamates skin and they dislike him. There is no reason this team should have the record it does, Kobe should've sacrificed his scoring the past two seasons for the betterment of his team, instead he wanted to try to win the league scoring title at his older age to prove to players like Lebron and Durant that he still has what it takes to be considered the best in the league, all the while these other guys are team oriented guys who want to win rings and have no problems sacrificing individual accomplishments for titles.
Don't blame D'antoni, don't blame Howard, don't blame old age, blame the supposed "leader" of this team who has failed to positively rally the troops to play good TEAM ball and be successfull in the process.

I never knew a person could type that many words without saying anything.



A whole bunch of nothing at that
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Post#51 Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (ch
Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:36 pm by PandGneverfold

richboy wrote:
PandGneverfold wrote:One player is not responsible for this teams defense, our sucky defense takes a total team effort,including the coaching staff.



Usually would agree. But when your name is Kobe Bryant. You say I'm all about winning. I'm the leader of this team. You set the tone. You take the credit for the wins but everyone else was at fault for the losses. Don't work that way.

Let be perfectly honest as I'm already hearing well other players defense sucks too. It is a big difference to your defense sucks to your not even trying. What player on this roster isn't even trying on defense.

You need to bring it on defense even more than you do on offense. If that means you only average 25 a game then that is fine. But you have to bring it on the defensive end first. I said it days ago. With some criticizing me for being hard on Kobe. The obvious you criticize Kobe you must be a hater. At least 6 games this year that have been somewhat close. That I'm watching the game and wondering what in the world Kobe is doing on defense. Actually every game has been like that but at least 6 games that to me if Kobe gave even a small amount effort on defense they win easy. I'm watching Denver play by play guys laugh at how Kobe was just ignoring Corey Brewer. JVG last night. Wish he was the coach. This article. Finally some people willing to call Kobe out. I doubt Mike D will say anything though.

No one is trying on defense and save the Kobe gets all the credit for winning excuse. As soon as the lakers were winning in 09 and 10 most people on realgm was screaming it was all pAu and that laker frontline and that you could replace Kobe with any shooting guard and get the same results. You even had idiots saying Bynum was dominant during that time. I know Kobe is the leader and deserves some flack but besides Jordan hill there is absolutely no one on this team trying on defense,and that's not surprising once you see the coach. Like I said blaming one guy is the easy way out. I just find it funny that when other guys put up nice stats with nice averages they get praise and the well they just need more help,but the guy putting up 30,5,5 on our team is the problem. Yea sure
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Post#52 Re: Kobe is the problem
Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:44 pm by PandGneverfold

ball teacher wrote:Kobe is a future hall of famer, a 5 time NBA champion, a league MVP, a scoring champ, a defensive player of the year, but he is also a man with a huge ego and little leadership skills. Kobe will get a pass because he's the face of the franchise and he has all the accolades I already mentioned, but when you look at what's happening with this team, the blame falls on the team leader and the coaches, and in this case I'm putting more blame on Kobe because this is a league where superstars get coaches canned all the time, the superstars take over games, their words hold heavy weight in huddles and on the floor, and Kobe has rarely shown traits of great leadership in his whole career.
He has had beef with Shaq, Bynum says Kobe stunted his development, and now Howard is making his displeasure known. If you will explain away each of these issues Kobe has had and attempt to justify them in anyway on behalf of Kobe, then you are letting your homerism cloud your judgement. Kobe is a great player/scorer, but that's all he is, he needs a stacked team to win because he doesn't have the leadership ability to make his teamates better, instead he gets under hs teamates skin and they dislike him. There is no reason this team should have the record it does, Kobe should've sacrificed his scoring the past two seasons for the betterment of his team, instead he wanted to try to win the league scoring title at his older age to prove to players like Lebron and Durant that he still has what it takes to be considered the best in the league, all the while these other guys are team oriented guys who want to win rings and have no problems sacrificing individual accomplishments for titles.
Don't blame D'antoni, don't blame Howard, don't blame old age, blame the supposed "leader" of this team who has failed to positively rally the troops to play good TEAM ball and be successfull in the process.

Oh and for the record lebron has never sacrificed his stats for the better of his team,it's always other guys doing that. Yet people still say he's all about winning. Kobe changed his game and incorporated pAu beautifully when he got here. Kobe is one of the few guys in the league that can get his and let other guys get theirs too. When Nash was Howard had just as many chances as he did when he was in Orlando,when pAu got here he got the same chances he did in Memphis. Nash is doing the same thing this year that he was in Phoenix last year,so save the bull and next time just post "I hate Kobe and I'm glad he's losing". Saves time and space
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Post#53 Re: Kobe is the problem
Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:47 pm by AcecardZ

Kobe is responsible for Pau being softer than a big fluffy pair of panties? Lol mmmmkay!

And ya obv Dwight is only 70% at best. As mentioned above clearly Kobe's fault also. Jordan Hills season ender? On Kobe obv! All those missed Meeks and MWP jumpers? Blame Kobe! Bad economy? Blame Kobe! Father Time? Definitely on Kobe also! Damn Kobe!


Lock this garbage up please!!!
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Post#54 Re: Kobe is the problem
Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:50 pm by leeprettyp

AcecardZ wrote:Kobe is responsible for Pau being softer than a big fluffy pair of panties? Lol mmmmkay!

And ya obv Dwight is only 70% at best. As mentioned above clearly Kobe's fault also. Jordan Hills season ender? On Kobe obv! All those missed Meeks and MWP jumpers? Blame Kobe! Bad economy? Blame Kobe! Father Time? Definitely on Kobe also! Damn Kobe!



Trust I feel the frustration with this old boring topic
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Post#55 Re: Kobe is the problem
Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:59 pm by AcecardZ

The single biggest reason the Lakers are struggling is Pau's awful play caused by his inexplicable wussification...
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Post#56 Re: Kobe is the problem
Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:08 pm by Michael Lucky

Outside of saying he should lead by example and play some D, I find this idea that he lacks leadership absurd considering he's always been this way and has won 5 titles. Also the Bynum and Howard things are taken way out of context.
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Post#57 Re: Kobe is the problem
Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:10 pm by Michael Lucky

AcecardZ wrote:The single biggest reason the Lakers are struggling is Pau's awful play caused by his inexplicable wussification...


The Lakers have a worse record when he's not on the floor, so no he's not the biggest reason.
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Post#58 Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (ch
Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:17 pm by Michael Lucky

I don't know why people keep thinking that the article is saying that Kobe's D is the main reason why we're losing when the article itself states that it's not. Having said that, Kobe might very well be the worst off ball perimeter defender in the game right now. He doesn't try at all anymore and I do agree with one point in that article. What kind of tone does it set for the rest of the team if its leader doesn't even try on D?
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Post#59 Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (ch
Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:10 pm by Slava

Thank you BasedDogg!
g105rick wrote:LA needs changes. That means benching Kobe into a lesser role or let him retire if he has another season ending injury. Why wait another 2 losing seasons? That's extremely selfish to guys like Nash, Boozer, and others

DEEP3CL wrote:Zach Lowe is a dumbass
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Post#60 Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (ch
Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:16 pm by Father Time

okay, criticizing kobe does not make you a hater. what makes a hater is being blatantly biased in how you criticize kobe. i haven't ever seen richboy say one good thing about kobe, not one. all he ever posts about is how kobe is destroying the team, how his defense is terrible, his shot selection is terrible, his leadership is terrible, his efficiency is terrible, i think you get the idea. i'm sorry but if you can't provide a balanced critique of kobe then yes you might be a hater. see how the article criticizes kobe? they give him credit for a historic offensive season, while at the same time pointing out how his defense needs to get better. that is a fair and balanced approach.

jvg criticizes him but also explains it's not all on kobe and he's one of the best ever. again, balanced.
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Post#61 Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (ch
Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:05 pm by ArC_man

I do partially blame Kobe's leadership for our current situation. Think about it, Kobe + Nash or Kobe + Dwight even if they're surrounded by D-league scrubs (which they aren't) should be plenty to lead a team to a .500 record. Our current record is just plain inexcusable, we've lost so many games that we should have won.
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Post#62 Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (ch
Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:40 am by KB24TBOTB

LA_Sports wrote:
dockingsched wrote:
i know its these guy's are pros, but when your team leader doesn't even try on defense but has no problem taking so many shots, its hard to give it your all yourself.

Bingo...

Then kind of shows that you really don't care to win if you will let that determine how you play. As a player you do all you can ignoring what someone else isn't doing at least this way you can say to yourself that you left everything out on the court.

Not an excuse for Kobe but your excusing rest of the teams poor play
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Post#63 Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (ch
Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:09 am by WhatRickyThinks

LA_Sports wrote:
dockingsched wrote:
i know its these guy's are pros, but when your team leader doesn't even try on defense but has no problem taking so many shots, its hard to give it your all yourself.

Bingo...

Bingo squared.
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Post#64 Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (ch
Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:29 pm by chefy

GeneralNash wrote:It is just not defense. For what is supose to be a potent offensive minded team...lakers are not. Lakers should be winning half of their games by having a superior offense...but they just lack offensive superiority against most teams.

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d'antoni's offense is just not a good fit for us right now. maybe when everybodys 100% healthy. another thing is kobe takes so many iso play it just stops the offense. d'antoni's offense is supposed to be quick. if you look back at the suns roster almost every player is a spot up shooter. raja,marion,thomas,richardson,hill. the ideal sg next to nash is someone who will just spread the floor and play good D. our team is the opposite of that.
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Post#65 Re: Kobe's D is a detriment to the Lakers (ch
Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:41 pm by richboy

PandGneverfold wrote:
richboy wrote:
PandGneverfold wrote:One player is not responsible for this teams defense, our sucky defense takes a total team effort,including the coaching staff.



Usually would agree. But when your name is Kobe Bryant. You say I'm all about winning. I'm the leader of this team. You set the tone. You take the credit for the wins but everyone else was at fault for the losses. Don't work that way.

Let be perfectly honest as I'm already hearing well other players defense sucks too. It is a big difference to your defense sucks to your not even trying. What player on this roster isn't even trying on defense.

You need to bring it on defense even more than you do on offense. If that means you only average 25 a game then that is fine. But you have to bring it on the defensive end first. I said it days ago. With some criticizing me for being hard on Kobe. The obvious you criticize Kobe you must be a hater. At least 6 games this year that have been somewhat close. That I'm watching the game and wondering what in the world Kobe is doing on defense. Actually every game has been like that but at least 6 games that to me if Kobe gave even a small amount effort on defense they win easy. I'm watching Denver play by play guys laugh at how Kobe was just ignoring Corey Brewer. JVG last night. Wish he was the coach. This article. Finally some people willing to call Kobe out. I doubt Mike D will say anything though.

No one is trying on defense and save the Kobe gets all the credit for winning excuse. As soon as the lakers were winning in 09 and 10 most people on realgm was screaming it was all pAu and that laker frontline and that you could replace Kobe with any shooting guard and get the same results. You even had idiots saying Bynum was dominant during that time. I know Kobe is the leader and deserves some flack but besides Jordan hill there is absolutely no one on this team trying on defense,and that's not surprising once you see the coach. Like I said blaming one guy is the easy way out. I just find it funny that when other guys put up nice stats with nice averages they get praise and the well they just need more help,but the guy putting up 30,5,5 on our team is the problem. Yea sure


Please. Dwight is at the top of the league in rebounds and blocks. Artest is still battling hard even if he lacks the speed on defense. Even though Nash sucks it not because he doesn't try. Kobe not playing hard on defense can not be excused with well nobody is trying.

Father Time wrote:okay, criticizing kobe does not make you a hater. what makes a hater is being blatantly biased in how you criticize kobe. i haven't ever seen richboy say one good thing about kobe, not one. all he ever posts about is how kobe is destroying the team, how his defense is terrible, his shot selection is terrible, his leadership is terrible, his efficiency is terrible, i think you get the idea. i'm sorry but if you can't provide a balanced critique of kobe then yes you might be a hater. see how the article criticizes kobe? they give him credit for a historic offensive season, while at the same time pointing out how his defense needs to get better. that is a fair and balanced approach.

jvg criticizes him but also explains it's not all on kobe and he's one of the best ever. again, balanced.


No the problem is when you hear criticism you hear hate. Your post just proves it. First I have to call you a liar because I have never posted that Kobe is destroying the team. Don't let your intense love for Kobe blind what you hear and what is actually said.

You have pointed about all you could say about Kobe in 17 years. Everything you just pointed out is a completely fair criticism of Kobe. It not fair to question Kobe's defense this year? It isn't fair to question how Kobe could take so many shots a year ago?

I don't even get your post. Your in essence saying please give Kobe some love before you criticize him. JVG was asked what does Kobe need to improve on and he said his off the ball defense had been bad this year. He then said Kobe also needs to try to get other players a few more shots. Not sure where you heard JVG then start his Kobe is one of the best ever comments. If he did that is fine but believe me when JVG was coaching he didn't say Patrick Ewing do this but yeah your one of the greats with every criticism.

What love I should have given him last year. Apparently if you don't accompany every criticism with your one of the greatest players of all-time you must be a hater. You didn't say well you was wrong. No what I said was completely fact. Your mad I said it without it being sandwiched between some love. Excuse me I'm the one that for years had Kobe Bryant in the top 10 all-time before most on this board. I'm not talking a few years ago I'm saying had him near top 10 all-time when he was still playing with Shaq. Oh yeah I was the one saying let Shaq go and you can build around Kobe. Back then I was a Kobe fanboy by many. Go to the player comparison board and look at some of my Shaq debate threads where I actually have Kobe as not being a sidekick but just as important to those teams as Shaq. I was on this board I was here defending Kobe as being much better than Vince Carter and Tmac when that was not the common thinking. Here defending him threw rape allegations. Defending him when he was being called selfish after the debacle against the Pistons in the finals.

See I don't care if you think I love Kobe enough after each post. When things are not going good I'm going to state why. Not what is good for Kobe but what is good for the Lakers. A year ago Kobe had a 21 PER and a 105 offensive rating the lowest TS% of his career yet somehow managed the second highest shot per minute number of his career. If you want the Lakers to win games things like that can't be ignored.

See some people are bigger Kobe fans than they are Laker fans. Either way is fine but my focus is what it takes for the Lakers to win games. That is why I can't talk about the offensive great year because it isn't coming with wins. When I look at a team with Nash, Gasol, Howard, Bryant, Artest, Jamison offense is not what I think this team needs to win. As much as I would like to praise him for his season offensively it is coming in games they are losing. Although I don't give him all the blame. They are specific games that to me Kobe's lack of defensive effort have led to a lost. As the guy that says he is the leader of this team I felt he should be called out on that. It isn't about hating Kobe. It about the leader of this team could have won games by defending players who really are in the game only to defend him. If I was a hater I would say why didn't he shut down James Harden. No If the only thing stopping a victory is defense on guys like Alonzo Gee, Corey Brewer, Aaron Affalo I should expect he can do that. If he did that then we can talk about the great offensive year.
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