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Kobe: This Ain't Working; We Need to Get Back to Basics

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Re: Do the Lakers even have a system? 

Post#16 » by TwentyOne920 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:34 am

DEEP3CL wrote:The Lakers need to go back to being a post up team, when D'Antoni said post ups are the most ineffective play in basketball I knew we were in trouble. We won our last 2 titles using post up sets in the Triangle.


This. Look at the top 5 seeds in the West, they all have at least one good post player. Thunder are running Durant more in the post, Clippers have Griffin, Spurs have Duncan, Grizzlies have Randolph/Gasol, and the Warriors have Landry.

Even the Mavs have Dirk.
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bobly wrote:Kobe locked up his All Defensive Team this year after he blocked Lebron in the all-star game.
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Kobe: This Ain't Working; We Need to Get Back to Basics 

Post#17 » by kblo247 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:01 am

"We need to go back to basics," Bryant said. "We need to put guys in positions to do what they do best. We need to strip it down. Steve is best in pick-and-roll. Pau is best in the post. I'm best from the free-throw line extended down. Let's go back to basics.

"We've got to evaluate what's going on. Management is looking at it. The players are looking at it. I'm looking at myself. I'm a shooting a low percentage right now, and I've got to look at that. It's on me to make shots, but I'm having to make tough shots, getting the ball 30 feet from the basket and [expletive] like that.

"Listen, no one is more critical of their game, of how they're playing, than I am. And right now, I've got to shoot at a higher percentage, have to play better. "

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--kobe- ... 30224.html


His point stands. We misuse Kobe and Pau to promote Nash and Dwight. We need balance and back to basics which win us games. Kobe with ball in the triple threat, Pau on low block ... Nash and Dwight playing off that, winning and championship basketball. We need some triangle like sets and floor balance, as well as defined roles.

As a matter of fact I really think we need defined roles, none of this big 4 bs, straight pecking order, lets keep it real, guys knew when and how they would eat on title teams and even Miami had to establish one last year with Bron, then Wade, and a bosh getting scraps



You got a team of post up players playing pick and roll because the system fits Nash who has never won anything or got the conference playing that way. Nash needs to be Kerr or Fisher, a spot up guy, which is what Phil would have made him over a wannabe Showtime revival artist. Kobe, Metta, and Pau should post up. Dwight should flash to the goal and clean up the trash ala Horace Grant and young Bynum on the title teams. Fact is Phil was a better fit as was the triangle and Princeton O for everyone but Nash, and it shows as we have no floor balance and don't play inside out not just with bigs but with Kobe either except for spurts to get us back in games. And for gods mercy when Nash and Pau are on the floor with Kobe, MWP, and Dwight play a zone over man D.
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Re: Kobe: We Need to Get Back to Basics 

Post#18 » by abaka » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:07 am

Dwight this crab handed **** needs to lose that **** eating grin, realise hes Tyson Chandler and be ready to catch lobs instead of posting up and getting stripped

Nash needs to know his role, stop dribbling in circles and spot up on the 3 point line like you're the rich mans Steve Kerr

Pau needs to man up and just play his game

Earl Clark and MWP are doing fine, Kobe is Kobe

and D'Antoni needs to STFU and just let the players play. its not rocket science, Kobes got 5 rings, he knows how to get it done
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Re: Kobe: This Ain't Working; We Need to Get Back to Basics 

Post#19 » by BVPN » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:37 am

All of that is nice, but it's the defense that is the problem.
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Re: Kobe: This Ain't Working; We Need to Get Back to Basics 

Post#20 » by kblo247 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:43 am

Well if we post up guys, mainly putting Kobe in the triple threat and Pau in post, with proper spacing you have floor balance. Floor balance and minimizing possessions while maximizing your look sets the pace of the game. That makes teams take the ball out over running it at you, so you can set up a d. Phil used to dictate pace, and really that's how brown, both Larry and Mike were top teams defensively, they played a low possession game
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Re: Do the Lakers even have a system? 

Post#21 » by kobe808lak » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:05 am

MDA is a terrible coach, I watched his time with the Knicks. He forces everyone to fit into a terrible system that has never won. I knew this would be a disaster.

They needed Phil to turn this around. No one can save this sinking ship.

They are not going to win a title with Pau and Dwight together. Pau has to go. We need help on the perimeter like right now. Kirk vampire Heinrich just went off for 22 POINTS!!. How bout a backup 1/2 or even 3??
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Re: Kobe: This Ain't Working; We Need to Get Back to Basics 

Post#22 » by Kilroy » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:50 am

BVPN wrote:All of that is nice, but it's the defense that is the problem.


Not any more... We're broken on both ends of the floor at this point.

Kobe playing out of his head on offense for the first 30 or so games made us look better offensively than we were.
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Re: Do the Lakers even have a system? 

Post#23 » by Dr Aki » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:57 am

i'm sad.

but i'm going to figuratively "mail it in", this season is lost. the lakers were bound to miss the playoffs eventually, less than once a decade is a damn good achievement.

i'm happy in the thought that even if we don't make another single change to the roster and miss the POs, and lose our lottery pick to phoenix

that we're still the lakers, that we'll have 70 MILLION dollars in expiring contracts. if dwight re-signs, we'd still have space for 1-2 max FAs when kobe/pau/MWP/blake/hill/everyone else comes off contract

and then we can hit the hard reset button, and because we're the lakers, we'll get our guy(s), and we'll sooner rather than later, we'll be king of the mountain again.
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Re: Kobe: This Ain't Working; We Need to Get Back to Basics 

Post#24 » by hazy_01 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:25 am

Yes, back to basic offense not this bull "unstoppable" pnr offensive tactic that D'antoni preaches.
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Re: Kobe: This Ain't Working; We Need to Get Back to Basics 

Post#25 » by CraZyPraiZ » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:26 am

kblo247 wrote:
"We need to go back to basics," Bryant said. "We need to put guys in positions to do what they do best. We need to strip it down. Steve is best in pick-and-roll. Pau is best in the post. I'm best from the free-throw line extended down. Let's go back to basics.

"We've got to evaluate what's going on. Management is looking at it. The players are looking at it. I'm looking at myself. I'm a shooting a low percentage right now, and I've got to look at that. It's on me to make shots, but I'm having to make tough shots, getting the ball 30 feet from the basket and [expletive] like that.

"Listen, no one is more critical of their game, of how they're playing, than I am. And right now, I've got to shoot at a higher percentage, have to play better. "

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--kobe- ... 30224.html


His point stands. We misuse Kobe and Pau to promote Nash and Dwight. We need balance and back to basics which win us games. Kobe with ball in the triple threat, Pau on low block ... Nash and Dwight playing off that, winning and championship basketball. We need some triangle like sets and floor balance, as well as defined roles.

As a matter of fact I really think we need defined roles, none of this big 4 bs, straight pecking order, lets keep it real, guys knew when and how they would eat on title teams and even Miami had to establish one last year with Bron, then Wade, and a bosh getting scraps



You got a team of post up players playing pick and roll because the system fits Nash who has never won anything or got the conference playing that way. Nash needs to be Kerr or Fisher, a spot up guy, which is what Phil would have made him over a wannabe Showtime revival artist. Kobe, Metta, and Pau should post up. Dwight should flash to the goal and clean up the trash ala Horace Grant and young Bynum on the title teams. Fact is Phil was a better fit as was the triangle and Princeton O for everyone but Nash, and it shows as we have no floor balance and don't play inside out not just with bigs but with Kobe either except for spurts to get us back in games. And for gods mercy when Nash and Pau are on the floor with Kobe, MWP, and Dwight play a zone over man D.


Dwight won't do this. That's the biggest problem. He wants to be the go to guy and complains if he doesn't get the ball. same as in Orlando.
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Re: Do the Lakers even have a system? 

Post#26 » by EnigmaticProblem » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:28 am

SlavaMedvedenko wrote:I don't even understand the criticism of pick and roll because we rarely even do that. How many times has Dwight set a solid screen for Nash to work with? I can barely remember one instance of it. Pau atleast sets a screen and rolls to the rim.

The offense is just Metta post up, Nash dribble drive, Kobe posting up with one foot on the 3 point line and Kobe dribble drive. Howard post ups once in a while and gets fouled immediately to choke on the FTs.

There is absolutely no coherence to this team.

I've seen you complain about this a few times, so I'll explain it to you. D'Antoni, Howard, and Nash, all at some point, have talked about wanting to use the "pick" as more of a "touch and go"/"flash and go" type of thing, rather than an actual pick. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that this isn't completely on Howard.
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Re: Kobe: This Ain't Working; We Need to Get Back to Basics 

Post#27 » by EnigmaticProblem » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:32 am

Contrary to what anyone thinks, the problem is defense. I mean, "good defense leads to good offence", right? It's really as simple as getting stops, and not allowing the other team to a) gain confidence, and b) set up. The worst part of this team NOT completing an offensive possession is the fact that we don't even make the other team work. The ball goes up far too early in the shot clock. . .

And then there's that issue with the three-pointers, but that's a whole different story.
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Re: Kobe: This Ain't Working; We Need to Get Back to Basics 

Post#28 » by lake_show » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:54 am

EnigmaticProblem wrote:Contrary to what anyone thinks, the problem is defense. I mean, "good defense leads to good offence", right? It's really as simple as getting stops, and not allowing the other team to a) gain confidence, and b) set up. The worst part of this team NOT completing an offensive possession is the fact that we don't even make the other team work. The ball goes up far too early in the shot clock. . .

And then there's that issue with the three-pointers, but that's a whole different story.


No, that's not accurate.

The reason these guys get a lot of confidence on us is because we're too easy to defend. We don't know what we want to do out there. Not taking advantage of matchups. Not taking advantage of our talent.

When you have role players locking us down, getting steals, and getting out in the open court of course they're going to have confidence, and we're going to look bad defensively cuz our transition D is horrible.
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Re: Kobe: This Ain't Working; We Need to Get Back to Basics 

Post#29 » by Kilroy » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:59 am

The problem isn't just Offense or just Defense or both for that matter...

The problem is the "system" or "Game Plan" or whatever you want to call it... Its that these guys aren't on the same page, don't believe in their role on the team, don't communicate, and just plain aren't a "Team."

You can blame that on the coach, you can blame that on the players, you can blame that on Jim Buss, Mitch Kupchak, Dr. Buss... It doesn't matter... It just needs to be fixed.
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Re: Kobe: This Ain't Working; We Need to Get Back to Basics 

Post#30 » by Michael Lucky » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:03 pm

It's the system that needs to go. secondly Dwight isn't what he used to be and i wouldn't be surprised if he never will be the same player he was in Orlando which is scary if we're going to give him a max contract. Now, D'Antoni puts Pau on the bench following his best game of the year? that just baffles me to no end. I'm more disappointed in Dwight than anyone when i tcomes to the players. Nash and Pau play the PnR to perfection the last two games when Pau was playing the 5, while Dwight can't seem to mesh with Nash at all.
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Re: Kobe: This Ain't Working; We Need to Get Back to Basics 

Post#31 » by lake_show » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:19 pm

"I just want them to go have fun," the Lakers' interim coach said before their 101-77 rout of the Golden State Warriors. "These guys have been playing basketball for a long time. Call on it. Go play.

"Try to win the game and have a little fun."


This seemed to work.

Bernie Bickerstaff, 4-1 as Lakers head coach.

Just saying.
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Re: Do the Lakers even have a system? 

Post#32 » by minifang » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:19 pm

Dwight Howard attempted just five shots in the Los Angeles Lakers' 95-83 loss to the Chicago Bulls on Monday.

Howard expressed his frustration with his lack of touches.

"Look at the stat sheet," Howard said. "Look at the stat sheet."

Howard also proposed a solution for the Lakers' offense.

"It's simple. Play inside-out."

Howard would not be venting his frustration if we were running the triangle. Every play is initiated in the post...

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Re: Kobe: This Ain't Working; We Need to Get Back to Basics 

Post#33 » by Michael Lucky » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:22 pm

Even if it was a short sample it does seem like the systems that have been forced on these guys is just making things extremely difficult on them. Bickerstaff just basically told them to play basketball and put themselves in positions that they are comfortable with. I mean our lone loss was to the spurs on a last second possession without Nash.
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Re: Kobe: This Ain't Working; We Need to Get Back to Basics 

Post#34 » by Yerstem » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:35 pm

We misuse Kobe and Pau to promote Nash and Dwight


Are you serious? How did that happen? Kobe has shot the ball 907 times until now. This is 131 more than Westbrook, 149 more than Durant which are second and third in the list.
(http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... aders.html)

MWP has the second most FGA on the team. This alone shows there's sth wrong, right?

Here's the full list:

Player FGA
Kobe Bryant 907
Dwight Howard 397
Metta World Peace 459
Pau Gasol 317
Jodie Meeks 249
Antawn Jamison 221
Jordan Hill 155
Steve Nash 143
Darius Morris 171
Chris Duhon 108
Earl Clark 85
Devin Ebanks 65
Steve Blake 34
Robert Sacre 39
Darius Johnson-Odom 4

(http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2013.html)
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Re: Kobe: This Ain't Working; We Need to Get Back to Basics 

Post#35 » by Michael Lucky » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:38 pm

It's always been like that with Kobe. The shot disparities weren't that much different when we won our last two titles. What makes no sense though is how much Artest is getting to shoot it. that just baffles me to no end.

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