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Kevin Love; and the art of roster building in the NBA

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Re: Kevin Love; and an exploration of delusional self import 

Post#581 » by ALL HAIL » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:35 am

Slava wrote:I'm sure the title change was not prompted by Miles' posts but the other guy who suddenly appeared to make one post to stroke his ego and pseudo-intellect.

I don't know why I bother, but ...

Miles' posts were all on point. So much so, that I felt the need to big him up. I don't agree with everything he says all the time, but in this case, as he challenges the chronic myopia of some of these "smart guys" in which John Black refers, I, much like J. Black, wanted to show this shortsided board that Miles was not alone in his discontent.

Let's just call a spade a spade. Your boy doc called miles delusional because of his past outlinings of how the Lakers can get Kyrie Irving and how miles is now throwing out the name Anthony Davis as a possible target.

You can't have it both ways homie. Calling folks egotistical, yet dolling out warnings when your own ego gets bruised. You can' t have it both ways. Agreeing with J. Black, yet standing front and center as the source (with your boy doc) of all the problems in which miles and J. Black reference.

Check your own ego pimp. Miles' post were inspirational to me, as I dig visionary thought, those unafraid to, as he puts it, "risk an original thought".

You tryin' to make and keep friends, when I could give a damn.
The truth is, as J. Black so eloquently put it, you two are killing this board, turnin' it from imagination to "limp-dickness".
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Re: Kevin Love; and the art of roster building in the NBA 

Post#582 » by Slava » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:38 am

5 paragraphs and not an ounce of sense made. May be you need to stop bothering.
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Re: Kevin Love; and an exploration of delusional self import 

Post#583 » by Dr Aki » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:42 am

crazyeights wrote:Forcing a trade? Monroe (and potentially Bledsoe) will be UFAs next year.

The point is the Lakers would have been stupid to offer a contract that would have been matched. Instead they are waiting to see if negotiations really sour and they can be nabbed next summer.

IMO, a healthy Bledsoe is absolutely worth Parsons/Hayward type money.


the big issue is if those teams were forced to trade:

1. would they trade with the lakers? lakers don't have many available assets aside from expiring contracts
2. if a trade could be done, would the lakers be willing to offer a better contract than they rejected?

on those 2 points, i don't think it's be possible for either monroe or bledsoe to be a long-term laker
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Re: Kevin Love; and the art of roster building in the NBA 

Post#584 » by dockingsched » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:52 am

The majority of this board has been in support of being patient and not jumping on players that will get the team stuck in mediocrity. How that stance is now original and visionary is a bit confusing
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Re: Kevin Love; and an exploration of delusional self import 

Post#585 » by Sedale Threatt » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:58 am

ALL HAIL wrote:Check your own ego pimp. Miles' post were inspirational to me, as I dig visionary thought, those unafraid to, as he puts it, "risk an original thought".


The Lakers should try to acquire probably the best young player in the game.

So visionary. So original.
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Re: Kevin Love; and the art of roster building in the NBA 

Post#586 » by Slava » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:00 am

Moreover its cool being patient and everything but sooner or later you got to spend, franchise caliber players are not going to come here to play with Xavier Henry, Nick Young and Wes Johnson, which is why spending $10 - $12 mil per season on players like Stephenson and Bledsoe is not a bad idea at all. If the cap reaches the $80 mil mark as has been predicted, having two starters tied in at $24 mil in total salary would be a pittance and help us at least get to mediocrity from which a star could at least entertain the thought that he could put us over the top.

This is also why I liked the Jeremy Lin signing. You cannot hoard cap space for the next 2-3 seasons hoping for someone to fall in your lap.
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Re: Kevin Love; and the art of roster building in the NBA 

Post#587 » by ALL HAIL » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:05 am

What's visionary is the idea that Davis like Irving could be had if the stars align properly. That's it.

Instead of seeing something that has never been seen, you two pounce on an innovative and creative thought by name calling.

Well done guys.
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Re: Kevin Love; and the art of roster building in the NBA 

Post#588 » by Sedale Threatt » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:15 am

How's this for visionary: Take some of that Time Warner money, buy up however many game-used Wilt Chamberlain jerseys we can find and see if we can harvest some DNA for a couple of clones. It worked in Jurassic Park, why not us?
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Re: Kevin Love; and the art of roster building in the NBA 

Post#589 » by ALL HAIL » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:21 am

It's original because a guy who understands the CBA has pontificated a detailed, well thought out synopsis of how a RFA of Irving and Davis' quality could be had ... while doc spews one liners. Calling miles emotional, obsessisive, and delusional.

Now all of sudden, there is no disagreement.

It's one thing to post "the Lakers should get Kyrie Irving." It's something else entirely to EXPLAIN with detail and vision how and why he may be available.

But as I posted before, most are blind, unable to see. Instead of the blind being humble for all their ignorance, they spread it, ignorantly name calling to save face.

Yall are boys.
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Re: Kevin Love; and the art of roster building in the NBA 

Post#590 » by Sedale Threatt » Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:34 am

Yeah, amass assets and develop talent, which we need to be doing whether we're trying to take a shot at Anthony Davis or not. Not sure why spelling that out qualifies anybody as Basketball Moses, but I'll say some extra prayers tonight that we've got that kind of genius in our midst.
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Re: Kevin Love; and the art of roster building in the NBA 

Post#591 » by TyCobb » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:08 am

Dat arrogance#
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Re: Kevin Love; and the art of roster building in the NBA 

Post#592 » by EArl » Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:11 am

This thread here is popcorn material.
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Re: Kevin Love; and the art of roster building in the NBA 

Post#593 » by milesfides » Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:24 am

Who's claiming to be a genius?

In fact, I'm actually arguing for something incredibly simple. If the greatest players win championships, we must get great players.

Ok, so a few of you guys agree on the approach. What's missing is that you guys refuse to take the logical step: getting the great players.

And it's fairly transparent why - it's difficult. But it always has been. A superstar in his prime changing teams has always been an anomaly. So the discussion of probability is purely irrelevant - one, because it's incalculable, second, it happens, but not out of random chance. That means it's worth discussing, and people here seem to refuse to discuss it.

So that's the contradiction here. There's maybe fewer than 10 players in the NBA who can really direct a team to championship contention. Almost all of them are incredibly difficult to get - because they are great players and everybody knows it.

But that's besides the point. I don't know how many times I have to argue this, if those who agree with me on the premise (great players win championships), it's absolutely worth discussing how to get them. Some would seem more likely than others, sure, but it's probably an inverse relationship between talent and availability. None of this is surprising, but it doesn't mean acquiring these players is a lost cause - in fact, what can be more important?

What's the point of farming talent and acquiring assets if you're unable to take the next step? Again, it's a lack of imagination (not genius), or logic, or courage to say, hey, this is the end game, and it might be intellectually stimulating to think of scenarios in which they may be available, whether due to historical precedent, economics, basketball reasons, or psychology. To me, I think that would be a rich discussion, because not all players are motivated by the same things equally.

Something JB said that really resonated with me was "the culture of this board." I have to say, a lot has changed. There used to be a lot of forward thinkers, people unafraid to say things that might be different, outlandish, a reach, or sometimes flat out wrong - proven a day later. There was a lot of crow being eaten, all in good fun. But the best of times here was when it wasn't a pissing contest, but the entire point of debate or discussion, which is to challenge each other and actually come up with ideas, not just our own, but collectively. That was magic.

I think that's what has always distinguished realgm from other fan boards - we're not just fans. We don't just react, and there's a lot of that here lately. Just a grim reality, and we deal. It's passive. And it's boring. That's pathetic, because the whole point of this forum was "fun." It's a fantasty. We're all pretend GM's. We're proactive, and win or lose, whatever the reality is, we always believe our ideas could have made a difference.

I'll say this, the past few years have been hard on the fanbase, the effects of which are very apparent on this forum. But when I joined realgm 10 years ago, those were some dark days. And yet, on this forum, it was a brilliant outlet, full of fellow fans who did some hardcore battling. It was the wild wild west back then, and people had to really fight, and sometimes we did fight each other, but in the end, despite the struggles of our team, we had solutions. At least we thought we did, most importantly, we enjoyed it.

I guess I'm a bit long in the tooth, I I just hope that there are some kids out there, reading these boards, who won't be afraid to say something different, something risky, something stupid, something crazy, who won't walk out of this bar because it has been taken over by beaten-down old men, full of defeat.
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Re: Kevin Love; and the art of roster building in the NBA 

Post#594 » by Sedale Threatt » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:06 pm

Oh good lord...

Nobody's arguing that legit, championship-caliber superstars shouldn't be targeted, or that we shouldn't be amassing assets and developing talent. This is how Jerry West laid the foundation for our recent championships back in the 90s, and it is quality, sound team building. I think it's a great approach and I support it 100 percent.

A handful of people disputed the legitimacy of a couple of particular targets, not because they wouldn't be incredible additions -- I would sell a kidney to get our hands on Anthony Davis, maybe both -- but because of the nature of their contract statuses, and you lost your isht.

Now all of a sudden we have an overwrought, self-serving referendum on how we're all a bunch of dim-witted losers trying to crush everyone's souls. (Seriously, re-read the ridiculous final paragraph of your most recent post and tell us how our eyes aren't supposed to roll out of their sockets.)

Serving up a fairly crucial disclaimer for restricted free agents wouldn't seem to fit that bill in my eyes, but I suppose details aren't important.
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Re: Kevin Love; and the art of roster building in the NBA 

Post#595 » by Slava » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:07 pm

The difference between the dark ages back then and right now is that back then we already had the best player in the game, a highly reliable 3rd option and a brilliant young asset and the greatest coach/owner in the history of pro sports, all we needed was complimentary pieces. Now we are struggling to find step1, which is a top 5 player in the league. Even worse, we thought we acquired one twice and got burnt in terrible circumstances both times.

This is a different reality for Lakers fans who seamlessly moved from Kareem to Magic to Shaq to Kobe to cheer for, we do not have that now and somehow that makes the franchise look mortal. Its got nothing to do with the posters, its just a different situation.

Lastly no one is lacking imagination but I guess this board has adopted a sense of realism, some might call it pessimism and that would not be too wrong after the mis-steps of the past few seasons.

The majority of people on this board have advocated tanking for draft picks, taking on additional salary burden to acquire picks and young assets, most have even proposed trades to do exactly that, I believe that there's as much imagination involved there, coupled with a healthy dose of reality as just suggesting that we acquire the best professional player to come out since Lebron.

You are a great poster miles, I was a fan of your thought to acquire Lin & Asik by surrendering cap space and I'm excited as you are that we atleast acquired Lin and a draft pick with that train of thought, that's imagination with a side of reality that I can get behind but I would be surrendering my thought if I was to join you in this chorus that we can seduce AD out of his rookie contract straight into our laps.
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Re: Kevin Love; and the art of roster building in the NBA 

Post#596 » by Sedale Threatt » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:10 pm

That's a much more mature and diplomatic way to put it. Well done.
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Re: Kevin Love; and an exploration of delusional self import 

Post#597 » by snaquille oatmeal » Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:28 pm

ALL HAIL wrote:
Slava wrote:I'm sure the title change was not prompted by Miles' posts but the other guy who suddenly appeared to make one post to stroke his ego and pseudo-intellect.

I don't know why I bother, but ...

Miles' posts were all on point. So much so, that I felt the need to big him up. I don't agree with everything he says all the time, but in this case, as he challenges the chronic myopia of some of these "smart guys" in which John Black refers, I, much like J. Black, wanted to show this shortsided board that Miles was not alone in his discontent.

Let's just call a spade a spade. Your boy doc called miles delusional because of his past outlinings of how the Lakers can get Kyrie Irving and how miles is now throwing out the name Anthony Davis as a possible target.

You can't have it both ways homie. Calling folks egotistical, yet dolling out warnings when your own ego gets bruised. You can' t have it both ways. Agreeing with J. Black, yet standing front and center as the source (with your boy doc) of all the problems in which miles and J. Black reference.

Check your own ego pimp. Miles' post were inspirational to me, as I dig visionary thought, those unafraid to, as he puts it, "risk an original thought".

You tryin' to make and keep friends, when I could give a damn.
The truth is, as J. Black so eloquently put it, you two are killing this board, turnin' it from imagination to "limp-dickness".

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Re: Kevin Love; and the art of roster building in the NBA 

Post#598 » by crazyeights » Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:53 pm

Well let's turn this into something here:

It's obviously too early to know for sure, but once we do have a sense of the roster and how they fit together...do you guys think we'll look to acquire more assets midseason? Or will we try to focus on building chemistry for a playoff run?

I think we all agree that if we want to lure a big fish soon, we're needing to surprise people this year, and ready ourselves for a big move both with enticing assets to go out and some new building blocks to stay.

Personally, I'm hoping Bledsoe takes his QO. Will be interesting to see what Phoenix does with both Dragic and Bledsoe FAs at the same time.

Although with Lin, another PG becomes less pressing....I'm really curious how much Jeremy will command next summer. What do you guys think? Maybe 9M, around Nash's current salary?
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Re: Kevin Love; and the art of roster building in the NBA 

Post#599 » by milesfides » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:03 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:Oh good lord...

Nobody's arguing that legit, championship-caliber superstars shouldn't be targeted, or that we shouldn't be amassing assets and developing talent. This is how Jerry West laid the foundation for our recent championships back in the 90s, and it is quality, sound team building. I think it's a great approach and I support it 100 percent.

A handful of people disputed the legitimacy of a couple of particular targets, not because they wouldn't be incredible additions -- I would sell a kidney to get our hands on Anthony Davis, maybe both -- but because of the nature of their contract statuses, and you lost your isht.

Now all of a sudden we have an overwrought, self-serving referendum on how we're all a bunch of dim-witted losers trying to crush everyone's souls. (Seriously, re-read the ridiculous final paragraph of your most recent post and tell us how our eyes aren't supposed to roll out of their sockets.)

Serving up a fairly crucial disclaimer for restricted free agents wouldn't seem to fit that bill in my eyes, but I suppose details aren't important.



What's funny again is you and a few others seem to agree on approach, yet when it comes to actually talking about these top players, you balk at imagining a scenario in which they'd be available.

It's like any talk about getting superstars is banished around here for being "delusional." And again, and this is getting repetitive, almost all superstars changing teams has been incredibly difficult to predict, and involved many precedent-breaking cases. I put up a list for your reference.

So is it worth talking about? Yes. Unfortunately this thread has become epic because a few of you are so vehemently opposed to talk about this. As if you guys have the authority or knowledge to determine what's within the realm of possibility.

Details? How many people are talking details? Because I seem to be going through great lengths talking detail. And all these details are being dismissed with "delusional".

It's ridiculous why on a forum dedicated to fantasy GM's, I have to defend the validity of talking about getting great players for a team that is focused only on winning championships. You think I'm delusional? You don't think the Lakers are tracking the best players in the league and getting ready for them? And if they weren't, do you think they would be doing their jobs?

I'll leave it at that. Are they delusional, or are they simply doing their jobs.

And as far as the whole Restricted Free Agency thing, reports are that Greg Monroe and possibly Eric Bledsoe risking a SIGNIFICANT amount of money by taking the qualifying offer. That's even a bigger shock to me than a guy like Anthony Davis taking the qualifying offer, because there's real risk that Greg Monroe and Bledsoe will actually see less money in the future, and they're also losing big money in the difference between their small qualifying offer and the lucrative first year of the contract.

Precedents all are broken over time in the right situation. But only the team that's ready will capitalize, I guess the team that's delusional enough.
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Re: Kevin Love; and the art of roster building in the NBA 

Post#600 » by milesfides » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:18 pm

And enjoy your pitcher of miller low life and shots of old crow, heard they go great with eye-rolling and muttering
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