A Kobe Bryant Replacement Proposal: Zach LaVine

[milesfides]

Kobe Bryant is probably going to have a good season. Perhaps a great season. Perhaps he's going to get hurt again. Ultimately, it doesn't matter.

As anybody who's on the north side of 30 knows, the end is coming. Maybe in a couple years, maybe in five years, but it's coming.

There won't be another Kobe Bryant. We don't have to have another Kobe, but it would be a waste not to use these last years grooming a successor. Kobe loves to mentor younger players. Especially those who have similarities to him, who actually have that potential.

For all those who bitch about Kobe's contract, raising a worthy successor would be worth every dollar.

I think it's a grave mistake waiting for Kobe to be done before finding his replacement. Both in terms of position and the je ne sais quoi, the "it" factor, the excitement in showing us things we've never seen before.

This all has to happen while Kobe has enough juice. The moment kids stop listening to dad? When they beat dad one-on-one in the driveway for the first time. Right now, we're not winning rings. But what better mileage can we get out of possibly the most disciplined, prepared, conditioned athlete ever, by instilling those things 82 games a season, and all the off days and summer training under his 3 AM wakeup calls?

So...who?

I spent a lot of time watching video, poring over stats, looking over rosters.

Ultimately...I think the best prospect, all things considered, is Zach LaVine.

Of what I've seen, he's the most athletic player in the league. Period. Let's get that out of the way. This guy is ridiculous. His athleticism is not due to a built-up body, but because he has extraordinary natural gifts. Namely, he's split high, a term used to describe Allen Iverson's ridiculous ups as a sub-six footer, his proportionally long legs give him that deceptive long stride, as well as the spring in his jump. Allen Iverson never had a built body - but his extraordinary physique, being "split high" gave him innate athletic advantages.

Russell Westbrook is the other notable player who's split high, so athletic that in the words of Lebron James' former teammate, Dwayne Wade, Westbrook is "the most athletic player in the league."

Yet Zach LaVine is split higher than either - he's all legs. It allows him to cover a lot of ground and get up quickly and effortlessly. He's already the best dunker in the league. Blake Griffin doesn't have anything on this guy - I bet anything Blake ducks the slam dunk competition forever. Zach LaVine might be the greatest NBA dunker ever - I've seen the youtube videos, and it's just...it's above Vince Carter's stuff. Forget Gerald Green, James White. Zach LaVine is on another level. And he is just a kid.

What does this have to do with Kobe? A lot. A lot of similarities. Zach, at only 19, has a complete offensive game. Sure, there are better shooters. Better drivers. Better passers. But all together? At his age? Kobe? T-Mac? Seriously. And Zach is far more athletic than either. Danny Ainge said he was raw. Raw? How many veterans has the skillset that Zach does right now? Can run an offense, shoot, pull-up, and destroy people at the rim? One - Lebron.

He has all the tools. How did he drop so far in the draft? This is where stats fail us - situation has a great influence on a player's performance. But look at his game: Zach has a three-point range. But more importantly, a reliable, confident pull up jumper! He also has a step back with a high release point. A lot of Klay Thompson in his effortless perimeter shooting. But unlike Klay, he attacks the basket regularly, and despite his body not being filled out, he's got excellent body control, and his athleticism allows him to just shoot over and beyond defenders.

Andrew Wiggins is the best 2-way wing player since Lebron. That's already evident. Exum is like a stronger Penny Hardaway. But LaVine has the most well-rounded offensive game, a lot like a young Kobe.

Unlike young Kobe, he's a willing passer. In the summer league, players are generally playing selfishly for their livelihood. But Zach looks to get his bigs and other guards involved. he's got great ballhandling for a 2-guard. Passable for a point guard, but for a 2-guard, I think it's elite. Like Kobe. He can run an offense, dribble wherever he wants to go on the court, and find teammates. Without losing his aggressiveness.

Of what I've seen, a small sample size of UCLA games and summer league highlights, he just has incredible poise and that balance between scoring and facilitating...something that you can argue still eludes Westbrook. He has a mature game.

Zach really has everything. Like Kobe, the balance with natural gifts that separate him from everybody else. And he's incredibly confident. Not cocky like Kobe, but confident, with a chip on his shoulder. He wants to be great, he wants the ball in his hands, and he's going to make good decisions (unlike Young Kobe). And the knack for the spectacular play, doing things we can't even imagine - who in this draft has that more than Zach?

If Kobe worked on him, it would be scary. What's his ceiling? I don't think he has one. Get him to defend, work on his body, footwork...what is his limit? You know this guy is going to be dunking on everybody. But forget the Gerald Green comparisons, Zach can play like a point guard. This is a great young basketball player, not just an athlete.

But how to get him?

Well I think the Love trade can actually be good for the Lakers, indirectly. Andrew Wiggins to Minnesota makes Zach LaVine a lot more available. I think the T-Wolves will sign Rubio to close to the max. Barea is backing him up. Kevin Martin, Wiggins, Brewer, Shved, Shabbaz, Budinger...there's a lot of wing help there. Not a lot of power forwards. Sure, they'll get Anthony Bennett (terrible) or Thaddeus Young, who's solid but more of a small forward, and they still don't have any quality depth behind him either.

Which brings us to Julius Randle. I like Randle, but I think longterm, he's limited. There are some inherent drawbacks to Randle's game that makes me serious doubt his ability to reach superstar level.

On the other hand, Zach LaVine has everything; I can't see any real negatives at all. He has zero limitations. He has the ideal, supernatural body type, with all the skillset of an elite guard. He has real potential to be a superstar guard in the league, and I think worth the risk of trading our high pick for a lower pick.

I'm not giving up on Randle or think he'll be a bust. I'm almost certain he's going to be a productive quality player. But Zach LaVine...the game will come incredibly easy to this guy once he gets enough burn (which he most likely won't in Minny).

This year's slam dunk contest will be Zach's coming out party. Like what happened with Vince Carter, Zach is going to blow up. The Lakers need to get him before then - as early as they can, actually. Randle is not going to get enough burn with our loaded frontcourt to exactly raise his value. We need to do this while the Love-Wiggins goes down.

There's been a lot of talk of how to draw superstars to the Lakers. I think this is an opportunity right here. 12 teams passed on Zach LaVine. 12 teams passed on Kobe Bryant.

This guy is it, I feel it in my gut. This is our guy, we need to reach for him, and we need to reach for him right now before it's too late. The Lakers need to bring Zach home.

[aaron_gray]

Steve Alford does not agree with the points you have made.

[milesfides]

^Primary reason why Zach wasn't drafted higher. Google Steve Alford and nepotism

[aaron_gray]

Bryce aint a bad player tho

[ALL HAIL]

You'd do Randle for Lavine straight up, huh?

[milesfides]

I'd throw more assets to make it happen, if that's what it takes. I've seen a lot of video, I think he might be the best player in the draft.

Randle has some serious limitations to his game already. He's going to have to overcome that.

On the other hand, there isn't anything Zach can't do offensively. He is a better player right now with everything pointing to superstar. Who has greater upside offensively than Zach? While Wiggins is going to be the best 2-way player, Wiggins can't play point. Wiggins actually has some trouble in the halfcourt because he does have some weaknesses in creating, shaky jumper, and a fairly limited range of moves. He's going to be a finisher, but not a creator. That's where Zach is really special. He's both.

And I know it's in style these days to knock athleticism. But the NBA superstars usually ARE the best athletes. The reason why I think Zach will be on the superstar side of the dice is that his actual basketball skills are much more Kobe, T-Mac because he can handle/pass, control the game - in other words he's a talented basketball player plus the most athletic. That formula is superstar, especially one who has a chip on his shoulder and has a little nastiness (more Kobe than T-Mac).

You can't miss.

[aaron_gray]

Thanks for putting this together milesfides, appreciate the fact that you took the time to do so.

[aaron_gray]

In regards to Kobe:

Just to be clear, you're saying that multiple teams passed on him because they think that he won't mature into the greatest player since Lebron like you're predicting without Kobe's guidance correct? And Mitch knew this, but since he didn't want to waste Kobe's final years without giving him support, he drafted Randle instead. Is that the reason you're giving?

If you do see him going down a Kobe path, I just have to say that if you put anyone except Kobe's mind into young Kobe's body, he wouldn't have worked out.

Kobe is not a mentor. He's a leader, and there's a difference. People play behind Chris Paul and become better players, but parts of Paul's game can be easily replicated. Protecting the ball with your butt, the passes not to make, so on and so forth. Kobe, not so much.

if you think Lavine will gain Kobe's personality, I would counter that Randle is more likely to learn that from Kobe than Lavine.

[Tee212]

ya i just saw all his yt clips, for his skinny body hes a freak. he has klays range but a higher lift and release and much more aggressive to the hole. he has a studder step goes and finishes left and also passes. (his number was 8 nd 24 go figure lol) dood lifts off to the rim effortlessly. altho his fadeaway has a weird hitch to it but he gets off the ground basically unblockable. he can definitely sell some tickets in la imo

[aaron_gray]

In regards to Lavine's play and what he's showcased thus far:

There are other things to basketball other than being able to run fast and jump high. Balance, quickness, lateral foot speed, durability, strength and many more all need to be considered. Lavine is a beast, but I have no doubt that Chris Paul can lock him down right now despite the height difference.

I think he shot more threes than free throws last year. Not a good sign if you're looking for the next Frobe.

I'm going to need you to provide a lot of evidence that he can run the point. Saying that he can make the right pass when doubled teamed every now and then is very different from saying he can act as a secondary ball handler in the molds of Batum and Iguodala.

Also, where are you getting the he can score from anywhere on the court vibe?

[milesfides]

In regards to Kobe:

Just to be clear, you're saying that multiple teams passed on him because they think that he won't mature into the greatest player since Lebron like you're predicting without Kobe's guidance correct? And Mitch knew this, but since he didn't want to waste Kobe's final years without giving him support, he drafted Randle instead. Is that the reason you're giving?

I really have no idea what you're saying. But I want to say no, because I have no idea what you're saying.

If you do see him going down a Kobe path, I just have to say that if you put anyone except Kobe's mind into young Kobe's body, he wouldn't have worked out.

Again, I don't know what this means.

Kobe is not a mentor. He's a leader, and there's a difference. People play behind Chris Paul and become better players, but parts of Paul's game can be easily replicated. Protecting the ball with your butt, the passes not to make, so on and so forth. Kobe, not so much.

Not true - a notable case was Caron Butler, who after one year under Kobe's wing he played four years of near all-star level basketball (averaged PER 19). This is a notable case, because Caron Butler attributed his success directly to Kobe:

“I say that’s the best thing that ever could have happened for me personally for my career. To play alongside a guy like that, see his preparation, see what it takes to get to that level, that’s why I was able to be so good in Washington because I took everything I learned from him under his wing...Work ethic. He comes to the gym 6:30, 7 in the morning, gets shots every day, a rhythm. Afterward hits the weight room, works out in the summer, studying film, critiquing guys, watching their tendencies, picking things up … Just studying the game with him taught me a lot.”

if you think Lavine will gain Kobe's personality, I would counter that Randle is more likely to learn that from Kobe than Lavine.

Zach already has a lot in common with Kobe in terms of personality already. You've misread the post. But what Zach has to gain is Kobe's vast knowledge of the ins and outs of the shooting guard position, infamous preparation for his opponents, black out training, tireless work ethic. All the things that elevated Kobe into being consistently phenomenal over 20 years.

If Kobe helped make Caron Butler a borderline all-star, and I love Butler but he is a limited player, I can't imagine what he'll do with Zach. I can imagine, actually. He'll be a superstar.

[milesfides]

In regards to Lavine's play and what he's showcased thus far:

There are other things to basketball other than being able to run fast and jump high. Balance, quickness, lateral foot speed, durability, strength and many more all need to be considered. Lavine is a beast, but I have no doubt that Chris Paul can lock him down right now despite the height difference.

And I have no doubt Zach would step on Chris' head on his way to throwing down a behind-the-back windmill. So one of us is wrong. And balance, quickness, lateral foot speed - all of those are Zach's strengths. You haven't followed him. He's not the strongest, but he's also 19. Also Kevin Durant isn't the strongest either, in fact, he was the weakest player in his draft class. But strength on the court isn't necessarily about how much muscle you carry. Zach knows how to use his body and he's got great body control.

I think he shot more threes than free throws last year. Not a good sign if you're looking for the next Frobe.

Again, his depressed stats at UCLA is what determined his draft position. That doesn't reflect what he can do. You think Zach and McDermott would be drafted at the same position after what they showed in the summer league? I'd say not.

I'm going to need you to provide a lot of evidence that he can run the point. Saying that he can make the right pass when doubled teamed every now and then is very different from saying he can act as a secondary ball handler in the molds of Batum and Iguodala.

Actually, I didn't say that at all. He's not "making the right pass when doubled." He's playing point guard. Legit. He's running the offense, penetrating defenses, and getting his teammates easy looks like a point guard. If you don't want to watch the videos, look up articles after the summer league games, Sam Mitchell said he ran the sets and he did it well.

There's a in-depth write-up about how Zach showed his game is a lot more advanced than what he was allowed to show in UCLA:

http://www.canishoopus.com/2014/8/1/585 ... ach-lavine

I recommend looking through that if you don't want to watch the games yourself and draw your own conclusions. I think it does a fair and balanced job.

Also, where are you getting the he can score from anywhere on the court vibe?

He can hit the three, he attacks the rim, his midrange game consists of a sweet step back as well as a pull-up jumper, and in the summer league he showed he can get to the line - in fact, he attempted 10 free throws in 2 of the 6 summer league games. That's insane for a summer league game, let alone an NBA game. So yes, he can score from everywhere, and just as importantly, he can create for others - that's what makes him a likely superstar. He's just got everything and he can do everything.

I think ultimately he should play 2-guard and have Jeremy Lin play point...in many ways they're interchangeable, and makes us that hard to guard (see Tony Parker and Ginobili playmaking duo)

[TyCobb]

You must be bummed we passed on him and drafted Randle instead. There were a few of us who wanted to trade down in the draft for multiple firsts so we could draft LaVine. It wouldn't make sense now to trade Randle and more assets for a guy we could've drafted on our own.

[aaron_gray]

You're right, I haven't watched enough Lavine to really give an educated opinion on his future. I probably need to rewatch the few bruins games I have on my computer, but here it goes:

I have no idea what you're talking about

Explain why so many teams passed on the next greatest player of all time. Is it because Lavine is raw? Because he put up bad stats? If so, he would have had an opportunity to show that during workouts.

Caron Butler

I mean, Caron Butler averaged 15 a game in his rookie year and put up numbers in college.

Caniscushoops article

Everyone has their own opinion. But if you watched the games like you keep suggesting that I don't, let me spell it out for you:

Last year's UCLA team:

Best off-ball scorer: Jordan Adams. Guys does not have elite athleticism, but he score in a variety of ways. Especially interesting was when he would come around the baseline and get good post up position. Of course I don't know him personally, but I would put money on him being the smartest guy on the team.

Best at leveraging their attributes in the half court: Norman Powell. Dude just has some crisp strong drives to the hoop.

Most overrated player: Kyle Anderson, but you're about to make it Zach Lavine. As I've mentioned before, Kyle's game revolves around taking like two dribbles, getting stopped and then dumping it to one of the Wear twins on the block. Kind of like what Tyler Ulis did this year in HS except the latter is a midget while the former is 6'7. Slower than a turtle as well.

Wear Twins: Great role players that rebound and can shoot surprisingly well.

Tony Parker: Very big, but not necessarily what you would call polished.

Bryce: Can handle the ball and shoot it.

personality is similar to kobe's

Where are you getting this from?

[aaron_gray]

Chris Paul/Kevin Durant

you underestimate how much strength plays into having a strong dribble drive game. Unless you're a master of momentum, you're going to need to push against the player defending you. KD isn't the strongest, but he's a borderline 50/40/90 guy who once again, put up numbers in college.

beast in summer league

Yep, I believe Mcdermott would still have been drafted around the same position. If you were an nba gm, would you trade Randle for McDermott right now based on SL? Or Smart for McDermott? i wouldn't even trade Elfrid Payton for thug mcbullets. But that is beside the point. I take away a lot from the summer league too, but I also have to take into account other factors.

he ran the point when he was allowed to in college, was a beast in SL

Well, that is one thing that probably escapes my memory. I didn't focus on him in SL as there was another beast on that team, Gorgui Dieng. Maybe you're right, he does have a future as the next GOAT.

He has scored from anywhere on the court

Nah. But everyone's entitled to their own opinion. imo that's like saying Casey Prather has hit a 3 before. Doesn't mean he can do it consistently.




In all honesty I hope you're right about LaVine. The league can never have enough exciting players. But I wouldn't trade Randle for him. Going to go re-watch some games to make sure you haven't just made the discovery of a century.

[Sofa King]

If it was anyone else making this thread, I would probably laugh it off and expect this thread to be locked.

With miles, I still laugh a little but still give it a chance and see what miles says because he always have some deep analysis in all his posts.

Initially, I right off Lavine as a Gerald Green / Vince Carter player due to his athleticism. So until I see Lavine is the type of player with Kobe's dedication to the game, I don't think Lavine will amount to much.

Kobe was not the best athlete compared to Tracy McGrady or Vince Carter, but he used what he had and painstakingly put all what he knew and learned and honed it with hours upon hours of time in the gym.

The T'wolves will be an exciting team to watch next season. With Rubio, Lavine, and Wiggins, it will be a great team to watch.

And going back, I remember Mile's first threads about Rubio when Rubio was like 16 years old. I feel old now. Good times.

[tugs]

Great points miles but I would oppose to the idea of trading Randle for LaVine.

I know he is good. And just like Ty said some posters even considered to trade down to get him. If he really is that good though, I don't see him not getting opportunities with Minnessota right on the get go. He may not start but he'd definitely get minutes.

As for Kobe's successor, why not Randle? Most can see a Lamar Odom skill set from this kid and from his interviews you can sense he's very competitive. A player like Zach can have all the basketball tools in the world but without that drive all of those go to waste. See TMac and Vince as examples.

I wouldn't mind having a versatile big with raw skills like Lamar and has that instinct already like Kobe. Skills can be honed but heart is innate.

[Kilroy]

It might be a little silly to put that much on LaVine before he plays a single NBA game... I know he's athletic and has talent, but I'm not sure it's Kobe-esque at this point...

But assuming he could carry a team like Kobe, I still don't think swapping Randle for LaVine is enough of a net gain for us to get really excited about.
Ideally we should be looking for other recent draft picks with all star potential to add to Randle.

But I think we may be in a position to grab some of the talent from this draft with our cap flexibility. Some of these guys are going to look like busts early and teams are going to start unloading them. If we position ourselves well and are smart/lucky, we could land a LaVine like talent to add to our Randle core.

[tugs]

That guy could already be in the roster, Kilroy. Clarkson may not have the same length and explosiveness like Zach but he can be a very good player. His improvement during SL, changing his form to be able to hit his J's proves he's a hard worker and can still improve.

[Kilroy]

That guy could already be in the roster, Kilroy. Clarkson may not have the same length and explosiveness like Zach but he can be a very good player. His improvement during SL, changing his form to be able to hit his J's proves he's a hard worker and can still improve.

I agree... And we need more. I think offering to take on a bad contract to get back a recent pick with some upside could be a very good way to build a championship core...

It's just a matter of finding the perfect combination of a bad contract and prospect...

Like what happens with Wiggins after he's traded, or what happens if Embiid's recovery takes longer than expected, or what happens to Noel when Embiid debuts... Etc...

There are a lot of pieces out there that we can monitor and see if we can be in the right place at the right time...