How the Clippers Survived Against the Lakers

[Jakay]

Isolation play is the 2nd worse point per possession(PPP) next to a shot taken by a pick n roll ball handler with a .84 point per possession. Post up is right next to it with a 3rd worse ranking of .86 and those 2 are Kobe's favorite plays. Kobe will need to add spot up 3s, step back 3s in addition to his driving ability to be able to make this team competitive and to have the chance to retire gracefully. The game has changed and Kobe needs to adjust and evolve with it.

link:http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba-offenses-numbers-234100285--nba.html

What you just said doesn't even agree with what's in that link, and some of the other possession types are transition and offensive rebound. The only reason spot up is higher is because of the three, and you're not getting a wide open perimeter shot without someone drawing attention in the post or at the very least creating motion on offence.

Now I will say that this offence has no motion to it. Every possession is this 1-5 type of play regardless of who's shooting.

Anyhow, saying post play isn't a good option is well... condemning yourself as a math nerd and not much more. And not a particularly smart math nerd at that. But not shooting threes is also a dumb philosophy.

[D Nice]

Well said. It's strange there are so few good post up players now, (everybody wants to be like MJ?) well, we've still got big Al working down there, what's his stats like?

Nah, Mike isn't to blame, Mike is the greatest non-big post up player in the history of basketball. The "like Mike" generations of wings (Penny, Kobe, T-Mac, VC, Hill, Pierce, etc) pretty much all had/have amazing post-games. AI and Ray Allen are the only exceptions and AI was south of 6 ft and weighed under 170 and Ray is Ray, no need for postups. If anything it's Lebron and KGs fault.

And as I said Synergy has made their data inaccessible to non-professional sources and I don't know/recall Big Al's data off the top of my head. I remember him scoring fairly well but he was never in the top 5 despite his incredible skill-set. I do remember that he was routinely #1 in terms of post-up turnover efficiency (meaning he turned the ball over less in the post than any player in the league). I think LMA was 2nd in this category once or twice as well, with Duncan and Kobe rounding out most top 5s.

[ChokeFasncists]

Well said. It's strange there are so few good post up players now, (everybody wants to be like MJ?) well, we've still got big Al working down there, what's his stats like?

Nah, Mike isn't to blame, Mike is the greatest non-big post up player in the history of basketball. The "like Mike" generations of wings (Penny, Kobe, T-Mac, VC, Hill, Pierce, etc) pretty much all had/have amazing post-games. AI and Ray Allen are the only exceptions and AI was south of 6 ft and weighed under 170 and Ray is Ray, no need for postups. If anything it's Lebron and KGs fault.

Well, you're right, and LeBron and KG are also not bad posting up either. I guess I was more talking about real back to the basket big men that work down low. Perhaps it's a gradual process?

And as I said Synergy has made their data inaccessible to non-professional sources and I don't know/recall Big Al's data off the top of my head. I remember him scoring fairly well but he was never in the top 5 despite his incredible skill-set. I do remember that he was routinely #1 in terms of post-up turnover efficiency (meaning he turned the ball over less in the post than any player in the league). I think LMA was 2nd in this category once or twice as well, with Duncan and Kobe rounding out most top 5s.

Cool, cool, it's really too bad we can't use Synergy anymore.

[D Nice]

Well said. It's strange there are so few good post up players now, (everybody wants to be like MJ?) well, we've still got big Al working down there, what's his stats like?

Nah, Mike isn't to blame, Mike is the greatest non-big post up player in the history of basketball. The "like Mike" generations of wings (Penny, Kobe, T-Mac, VC, Hill, Pierce, etc) pretty much all had/have amazing post-games. AI and Ray Allen are the only exceptions and AI was south of 6 ft and weighed under 170 and Ray is Ray, no need for postups. If anything it's Lebron and KGs fault.

Well, you're right, and LeBron and KG are also not bad posting up either. I guess I was more talking about real back to the basket big men that work down low. Perhaps it's a gradual process?

It took Lebron 10 years to develop a post game (and his really still isn't all that), by then the damage was already done. And KG's post game was inefficient and consisted of 1 move. I'm more talking about bigs who idolized these guys because they were highly skilled and primarily face-up players rather than true big. Instead of wanting to become Hakeem or Wilt or Kareem they wanted handles and jumpshots like Bron and KG.

[ChokeFasncists]

Well, you're right, and LeBron and KG are also not bad posting up either. I guess I was more talking about real back to the basket big men that work down low. Perhaps it's a gradual process?

It took Lebron 10 years to develop a post game (and his really still isn't all that), by then the damage was already done. And KG's post game was inefficient and consisted of 1 move. I'm more talking about bigs who idolized these guys because they were highly skilled and primarily face-up players rather than true big. Instead of wanting to become Hakeem or Wilt or Kareem they wanted handles and jumpshots like Bron and KG.

Agreed. But then who did they idolize?

It turns out LeBron idolized MJ, Kobe and another player that KG idolized also: so at the end it's a certain Laker that had started all this!

[ChokeFasncists]

Just in case I wasn't being clear, the demise of the posting up started with Magic!

We'll get to see the last remnant of post up big in Big Al next game, let's hope Hill or Davis can somewhat contain him.