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LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12/05

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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#161 » by bws94 » Sat Dec 6, 2014 3:15 am

crazyeights wrote:
bws94 wrote:
Kilroy wrote:I can't even come to terms with how bad this team sucks right now... But Davis, Sacre, Boozer and Hill should all have their union cards revoked...

I'd literally make the team find their own transportation home after this game.


I put this on coach, not the players. Hill was fine, what was wrong with him?

Byron didn't have the team ready to play at all and his moves in the 2nd half looked like they were designed to help Boston win the game.


Maybe it was one of those the coach puts in the bench guys who played hard because they deserved to be out there even though we're gonna lose type thing?


Hill and Lin played well. I'm not sure why they didn't come back in when the lead started to slip away. And why does Kobe play in garbage time, the game was lost when he still was out there. And what bench guy played well? Young lost his cool and played out of control, Sacre was a joke and was 1-10 and Price wasn't that effective either.

The bench played well in the first half, they played OK in the second but started to falter and Sacre was woeful.
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#162 » by bws94 » Sat Dec 6, 2014 3:16 am

Kilroy wrote:
bws94 wrote:
Kilroy wrote:I can't even come to terms with how bad this team sucks right now... But Davis, Sacre, Boozer and Hill should all have their union cards revoked...

I'd literally make the team find their own transportation home after this game.


I put this on coach, not the players. Hill was fine, what was wrong with him?

Byron didn't have the team ready to play at all and his moves in the 2nd half looked like they were designed to help Boston win the game.


Zeller owned the entire front court. I don't care if Hill scored 20... Somebody has got to play some **** defense on this team.


Yeah, well, when a big is in motion on the opponent's team it spells a long night. It was a discouraging loss.
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#163 » by bws94 » Sat Dec 6, 2014 3:18 am

leeprettyp wrote:They're killing Lin on the radio right now. I don't put that much of the blame pie on him though. He's a combo guard or a backup PG starting because we have nothing else and also playing with a player in Kobe who needs the ball in his hands. I'm pretty sure Kobe wouldn't argue with Rondo having the ball in his hands running the show


Lin was good once he came back in the 2nd and was good in the 3rd. In fact, he was a spark in the 2nd. Worthy and Horry thought Lin should have played way more, don't know what the radio guys are seeing but everyone has their own analysis I guess.
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#164 » by TyCobb » Sat Dec 6, 2014 3:20 am

ChokeFasncists wrote:
crazyeights wrote:Unless Boston trades all of these young guys, I don't see why Rajon would stay. He's about to turn 29 in Feb. He'll want to compete.

Their starters aren't very young. Ya, maybe trade one or two of the young guys.
TyCobb wrote:Scott says changes to the starting lineup for Sunday's game.

I'd say just give:

Lin
Kobe
Wes
Hill
Davis

a try.

Lin hasn't been playing well lately but he will get better for sure.


It should be Lin, Ellington, Kobe, Hill, Davis.
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#165 » by bws94 » Sat Dec 6, 2014 3:23 am

TyCobb wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:
crazyeights wrote:Unless Boston trades all of these young guys, I don't see why Rajon would stay. He's about to turn 29 in Feb. He'll want to compete.

Their starters aren't very young. Ya, maybe trade one or two of the young guys.
TyCobb wrote:Scott says changes to the starting lineup for Sunday's game.

I'd say just give:

Lin
Kobe
Wes
Hill
Davis

a try.

Lin hasn't been playing well lately but he will get better for sure.


It should be Lin, Ellington, Kobe, Hill, Davis.


How is Ellington's D and what to do about Davis's fouling? I actually think this is the best compromise.
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#166 » by crazyeights » Sat Dec 6, 2014 3:24 am

bws94 wrote:
crazyeights wrote:
bws94 wrote:
I put this on coach, not the players. Hill was fine, what was wrong with him?

Byron didn't have the team ready to play at all and his moves in the 2nd half looked like they were designed to help Boston win the game.


Maybe it was one of those the coach puts in the bench guys who played hard because they deserved to be out there even though we're gonna lose type thing?


Hill and Lin played well. I'm not sure why they didn't come back in when the lead started to slip away. And why does Kobe play in garbage time, the game was lost when he still was out there. And what bench guy played well? Young lost his cool and played out of control, Sacre was a joke and was 1-10 and Price wasn't that effective either.

The bench played well in the first half, they played OK in the second but started to falter and Sacre was woeful.


At some point though we've gotta hard at this team. Lin and Hill seemed to do well on offense. But look at their guys, they both got torched.

Hill's guy had 24 points, 10-11, 14 boards. Hill had 4.

And 14 points is nice from Jeremy. But 16 assists is more than double that. This is the kind of production that's killing us at PG. It's Lin and Price. It's the bigs on pick and rolls. It's everybody.

But after getting off to the slow start, then the bench getting us back in, then letting it really slip away: I have no problem with the coach benching guys. He's pissed at his team. Guys have been complaining about Scott's coaching...well, from what I can see he's been pretty hands-off. Letting guys go through the motions.

Well it's the 7th week into the season now and things are gonna change.
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#167 » by Kilroy » Sat Dec 6, 2014 3:28 am

TyCobb wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:
crazyeights wrote:Unless Boston trades all of these young guys, I don't see why Rajon would stay. He's about to turn 29 in Feb. He'll want to compete.

Their starters aren't very young. Ya, maybe trade one or two of the young guys.
TyCobb wrote:Scott says changes to the starting lineup for Sunday's game.

I'd say just give:

Lin
Kobe
Wes
Hill
Davis

a try.

Lin hasn't been playing well lately but he will get better for sure.


It should be Lin, Ellington, Kobe, Hill, Davis.


What do you think about starting Price and Young instead of Lin and Johnson, and letting Kobe be the main facilitator?

I think Davis is our best bet at C, but he's better off the bench. I think we have to start him and Hill though. Boozer is more consistent offensively than Davis, but I swear he vaporizes on his way back on D.

We have too many SGs, no real SFs and weak PGs. I like Ellington too, though, but Young might actually be big enough to play SF.
I'd love to see Clarkson get more time too. Nothing to loose.
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#168 » by ChokeFasncists » Sat Dec 6, 2014 3:32 am

TyCobb wrote:
ChokeFasncists wrote:
crazyeights wrote:Unless Boston trades all of these young guys, I don't see why Rajon would stay. He's about to turn 29 in Feb. He'll want to compete.

Their starters aren't very young. Ya, maybe trade one or two of the young guys.
TyCobb wrote:Scott says changes to the starting lineup for Sunday's game.

I'd say just give:

Lin
Kobe
Wes
Hill
Davis

a try.

Lin hasn't been playing well lately but he will get better for sure.


It should be Lin, Ellington, Kobe, Hill, Davis.

That's not bad, but the perimeter D would suffer a little bit.

leeprettyp wrote:They're killing Lin on the radio right now. I don't put that much of the blame pie on him though. He's a combo guard or a backup PG starting because we have nothing else and also playing with a player in Kobe who needs the ball in his hands. I'm pretty sure Kobe wouldn't argue with Rondo having the ball in his hands running the show

Lin's a work in progress. He's gotta get his act together, hopefully sooner than later.
MorbidHEAT wrote:My dislike for Lin started during Linsanity. It was absurd. It's probably irrational dislike at this point, but man he gets on my nerves. He's been tearing us up though.
Thanks for the honesty.
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#169 » by TyCobb » Sat Dec 6, 2014 3:36 am

Kilroy wrote:
TyCobb wrote:
It should be Lin, Ellington, Kobe, Hill, Davis.


What do you think about starting Price and Young instead of Lin and Johnson, and letting Kobe be the main facilitator?

I think Davis is our best bet at C, but he's better off the bench. I think we have to start him and Hill though. Boozer is more consistent offensively than Davis, but I swear he vaporizes on his way back on D.

We have too many SGs, no real SFs and weak PGs. I like Ellington too, though, but Young might actually be big enough to play SF.
I'd love to see Clarkson get more time too. Nothing to loose.


I'd keep running Lin out as a starter to keep from lowering his trade value. I'd try other combinations at SF and PF, before moving Lin to the bench.

1st Unit Lin-Ellington-Kobe-Hill-Davis
2nd Unit Price-Young-Johnson-Boozer-Sacre

Lakers goals this season should be -- raise Lin's trade value, develop Jordan Clarkson, maintain Hill's trade value, develop Ed Davis, and add 2015 draft picks.
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#170 » by ChokeFasncists » Sat Dec 6, 2014 3:38 am

Kilroy wrote:What do you think about starting Price and Young instead of Lin and Johnson, and letting Kobe be the main facilitator?

Lin is better defensively and shooting the 3, it was a disaster with Price on the floor in crunch time, three games already. Lin is in a slump, IMO it's better to let him play thru it. Kobe doing everything is very dangerous for his health.

Young is quick trigger, he's more suitable off the bench, he wouldn't do as much with Kobe having the ball alot. Lin is not quick trigger tho, he just needs to get better.
MorbidHEAT wrote:My dislike for Lin started during Linsanity. It was absurd. It's probably irrational dislike at this point, but man he gets on my nerves. He's been tearing us up though.
Thanks for the honesty.
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#171 » by Kilroy » Sat Dec 6, 2014 3:39 am

TyCobb wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
TyCobb wrote:
It should be Lin, Ellington, Kobe, Hill, Davis.


What do you think about starting Price and Young instead of Lin and Johnson, and letting Kobe be the main facilitator?

I think Davis is our best bet at C, but he's better off the bench. I think we have to start him and Hill though. Boozer is more consistent offensively than Davis, but I swear he vaporizes on his way back on D.

We have too many SGs, no real SFs and weak PGs. I like Ellington too, though, but Young might actually be big enough to play SF.
I'd love to see Clarkson get more time too. Nothing to loose.


I'd keep running Lin out as a starter to keep from lowering his trade value. I'd try other combinations at SF and PF, before moving Lin to the bench.

1st Unit Lin-Ellington-Kobe-Hill-Davis
2nd Unit Price-Young-Johnson-Boozer-Sacre

Lakers goals this season should be -- raise Lin's trade value, develop Jordan Clarkson, maintain Hill's trade value, develop Ed Davis, and add 2015 draft picks.


I can see that... Almost would like to see Lin-Ellington-Young-Hill-Davis... Aside from the scoring title, playing Kobe is borderline irresponsible at this point.
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#172 » by Slava » Sat Dec 6, 2014 3:43 am

Not sure what starting Davis would do, he was getting his lunch money stolen out there too but man that Boozer & Hill frontcourt is just abysmal. No help defense, no man defense, no one rebounding or even boxing out the opponent bigs, just a horrible time. I have no expectations for Loozer but Hill is much better than this **** he showed tonight.
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#173 » by Kilroy » Sat Dec 6, 2014 3:46 am

Slava wrote:Not sure what starting Davis would do, he was getting his lunch money stolen out there too but man that Boozer & Hill frontcourt is just abysmal. No help defense, no man defense, no one rebounding or even boxing out the opponent bigs, just a horrible time. I have no expectations for Loozer but Hill is much better than this **** he showed tonight.


Yeah, starting Davis is out of necessity on D, not because he's really a starter, and it shouldn't mean he plays 30min like he did tonight either.

We have really depressing Bigs.
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#174 » by Slava » Sat Dec 6, 2014 3:47 am

I don't even see the guard funneling their man into the paint and the bigs are stepping way too far outside to contain the pick and roll, both horrible recipes for team defense, especially when the only big with good feet is Davis. Just fall back and stay near the f'ing rim and atleast pray that he misses and be ready grab a board. That's just bad coaching in my view.
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#175 » by bws94 » Sat Dec 6, 2014 3:52 am

crazyeights wrote:
bws94 wrote:
crazyeights wrote:
Maybe it was one of those the coach puts in the bench guys who played hard because they deserved to be out there even though we're gonna lose type thing?


Hill and Lin played well. I'm not sure why they didn't come back in when the lead started to slip away. And why does Kobe play in garbage time, the game was lost when he still was out there. And what bench guy played well? Young lost his cool and played out of control, Sacre was a joke and was 1-10 and Price wasn't that effective either.

The bench played well in the first half, they played OK in the second but started to falter and Sacre was woeful.


At some point though we've gotta hard at this team. Lin and Hill seemed to do well on offense. But look at their guys, they both got torched.

Hill's guy had 24 points, 10-11, 14 boards. Hill had 4.

And 14 points is nice from Jeremy. But 16 assists is more than double that. This is the kind of production that's killing us at PG. It's Lin and Price. It's the bigs on pick and rolls. It's everybody.

But after getting off to the slow start, then the bench getting us back in, then letting it really slip away: I have no problem with the coach benching guys. He's pissed at his team. Guys have been complaining about Scott's coaching...well, from what I can see he's been pretty hands-off. Letting guys go through the motions.

Well it's the 7th week into the season now and things are gonna change.


Why did Rondo get 16 assists? Well, first, he's good. And second, they have a motion offense where the bigs move and don't look to shoot 15-20 foot jump shots. A lot of the assists Rondo got were pretty easy and basic ones. Some were great looks and skilled and Rondo will do that to anyone. I don't see any legitimate complaints about Lin's defense for all but a few sequences this game, he was hustling his butt off and at one time guarded 2 guys, he hustled more than other players, he wrestled a ball from Sullinger when Sullinger tried to punk him.

PG is a stacked position, Lin has to go against tough PGs almost every night and most of the time fight through screen and picks and gets bad help. Part of a PGs defense is the help on PnRs, so I don't think it is fair to keep criticizing him for what other PGs do, part of it is the sequences and the screens they are getting. The points in the paint aren't on Lin that much, it is on the bigs. And Kobe gets burned too a lot on defense, he's not the defensive force he once was and his guy scores a lot in games.

I think Scott didn't have the players prepared, didn't have them ready on offense or defense where they looked like they were sleepwalking, didn't seem to have the rotations making any sense and I think he is one of the main reasons why the game was so poor. I think he did an incredibly bad job tonight and he should look in the mirror tonight and make himself accountable rather than getting all upset about the players. He dropped the ball more than anyone tonight.
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#176 » by crazyeights » Sat Dec 6, 2014 4:00 am

Just my point: PG is a stacked position. We should get one of those stacked ones. Let Lin play SG or dominate off the bench.
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#177 » by Kilroy » Sat Dec 6, 2014 4:03 am

Rondo got 16 assists because we're dead last in the league defending the 1...

Jeremy Lin could get double digit assists against this team.

But I don't disagree with your point. I just think you took the long way around to make it.

Our Defense is so bad at this point, I'm not even sure there's a point talking about what the problem is... It's like talking about what the problem is with Cancer.
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#178 » by bws94 » Sat Dec 6, 2014 4:09 am

crazyeights wrote:Just my point: PG is a stacked position. We should get one of those stacked ones. Let Lin play SG or dominate off the bench.


If that's what you think, OK. I think Lin can be a big spark and impact player but you don't seem to like his play. I think he's a winner but needs more time to acclimate. I think whatever kind of guard he is, he can make guys better around him if given the time. You'd rather have someone else, that's cool.
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#179 » by crazyeights » Sat Dec 6, 2014 4:30 am

bws94 wrote:
crazyeights wrote:Just my point: PG is a stacked position. We should get one of those stacked ones. Let Lin play SG or dominate off the bench.


If that's what you think, OK. I think Lin can be a big spark and impact player but you don't seem to like his play. I think he's a winner but needs more time to acclimate. I think whatever kind of guard he is, he can make guys better around him if given the time. You'd rather have someone else, that's cool.


What is it with guys talking about Lin like he's 7 years old, or their pet hamster?

He's a grown man--if I said something like: Jordan Hill should come off the bench--people might not even bat an eyelash--which by the way Jordan Hill IS a bench player--he's an incredible 3rd big that can provide energy, get offensive boards, hit the occasional 17 footer.

To me it's not that I don't like Jeremy Lin, it's that advanced stats confirm what I see when he plays: a slightly below starting quality player. I think you're absolutely dead on: he can provide a big spark, and be VERY impactful--but when we see photos of Kobe dining with Rondo and you combine that with the fact that not only does PG happen to be our weakest position defensively (for a myriad of reasons), but it's also an essential position for any team that wishes to compete, or merely succeed--plus with the GLUT of great PGs out there--then yeah I'm going to take a look at what if we did make a trade one! Well how about Rondo? What if we did double-down on the near future, rather than some pick in 2019, rolled the dice, could we manage to have Rondo, Kobe, and Lin on the same team? What effects might that have to the rest of the team.

I mean we all saw what merely having Nick Young come back and be another aggressive shooter. It made us look semi-respectable for a change. I think people forget the rec-league BS we were trotting out there 10 games ago. Sure we got blown out tonight, but the team we were a few weeks ago would have been down 30.

IF there were rumors about a center having lunch with Kobe, say Larry Sanders, I'd be like well ****, how does that change anything. But it was Rondo, and we do have a problem at PG--we have a problem at at least 3 positions--you're telling me we could potentially acquire an elite shot creator, with great defensive length, someone who Kobe might actually trust to do some creating, and I should just think oh well, we have Jeremy Lin, I have to be sensitive to his needs, his confidence issues are flaring up again, but you know he's a great kid and I know he can go out there and do it, because BARF.

Jeremy could have a vital role on this team. Instead we're relying on him to be something he simply isn't, because you only do what you can. Could Jeremy be awesome? Sure. Not starting with Kobe. They don't seem to have figured out how to mesh yet. Their styles are different and he needs the ball in his hands. Kobe doesn't seem to want to give it to him, might have something to do with his handles, because oh hey he's actually a combo guard. No but that would be a bad thing to say, a player can't be what he actually is, let him be what he aspires to be!
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Re: LA Lakers (5-13) @ Boston Celtics (5-11) 4:30 PM PT | 12 

Post#180 » by crazyeights » Sat Dec 6, 2014 4:43 am

...and to be clear: part of my thinking re: a starting PG replacement came from the realization that if this season keeps going the way it is, Lin will definitely be gone next year--why would he want to stay? And why would he accept a non-starting position in the summer after a slog of a **** year.

So I thought, you know what would be great? Is having 2 VERY GOOD point guards. It might actually be neat, considering how weak our point-guard play has been for the past two decades.

I thought that if we traded for another PG now and gave Lin room to grow and actually get his swagger back--yes, while actually on the bench OR as the off-guard, then maybe we'd have a shot at retaining a quality player long-term in the summer.

So to all the people who think trading for someone, like Rondo, who will be a FA next summer, just consider the fact that we may not retain much of anyone after an another awful season--which could put us in the position of having to rely on a guy like Ronnie Price, god bless his little heart, as our main backup.

Plus it's looking like Mitch and Jimmy probably don't have the balls to actually tank, so what's the point of making this season any harder than it has to be.

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