Top to bottom profile on the team's use of Analytics

[Doormatt]

It's all hype. The same reason there is so much talk about analytics this year is the same reason there was a ton of "no one wants to play with Kobe" talk last year.

Because it generates clicks and it sells papers.

Some of those articles were actually using the fact that Lebron signed with the Cav's as their justification.

No Lebron signed with CLE because he wasn't going to sign with anyone else aside from MIA

If the Lakers don't sign LMA this year, they'll use analytics as their proof. It makes a ton of money, and generates a ton of clicks. Doesn't have to be right, just has to be successful.

He isn't signing with us cuz we suck and there are much better opportunities for him. Doesn't change the fact that our analytics department has been potentially exposed, which is the point of this thread

[john248]

How many guys do you really need doing analytics? 3... maybe... doing full-time jobs, with Madsen over seeing them.

I wouldn't be pissed if they had 2, with Madsen as their third.

People are really over hyping this whole analytics thing.

Analytics isn't just some stat guys. It's really just the buzzword for more information and how that information is used. Just to give you an idea, someone like Stan Van Gundy, who has criticized analytics by non-basketball people, has expanded the Pistons analytics department. So he has assigned 1 guy to each division to watch full games where obviously he'll have 2 sets of eyes when teams from different divisions play each other. He's marrying this info to go along with the statistical info that he trusts. I wouldn't say these things are a 2 man group isolated. Everything works together. Probably need a couple guys just to weed through al the SportVU stuff that is now available.

[lake_show]

How many guys do you really need doing analytics? 3... maybe... doing full-time jobs, with Madsen over seeing them.

I wouldn't be pissed if they had 2, with Madsen as their third.

People are really over hyping this whole analytics thing.

Analytics isn't just some stat guys. It's really just the buzzword for more information and how that information is used. Just to give you an idea, someone like Stan Van Gundy, who has criticized analytics by non-basketball people, has expanded the Pistons analytics department. So he has assigned 1 guy to each division to watch full games where obviously he'll have 2 sets of eyes when teams from different divisions play each other. He's marrying this info to go along with the statistical info that he trusts. I wouldn't say these things are a 2 man group isolated. Everything works together. Probably need a couple guys just to weed through al the SportVU stuff that is now available.

So we're saying this would take 8 guys?

[lake_show]

It's all hype. The same reason there is so much talk about analytics this year is the same reason there was a ton of "no one wants to play with Kobe" talk last year.

Because it generates clicks and it sells papers.

Some of those articles were actually using the fact that Lebron signed with the Cav's as their justification.

No Lebron signed with CLE because he wasn't going to sign with anyone else aside from MIA

If the Lakers don't sign LMA this year, they'll use analytics as their proof. It makes a ton of money, and generates a ton of clicks. Doesn't have to be right, just has to be successful.

He isn't signing with us cuz we suck and there are much better opportunities for him. Doesn't change the fact that our analytics department has been potentially exposed, which is the point of this thread

I agree. I just happen to think this is more of a PR issue than an analytics issue.

I think what we'll see going forward is the Lakers will make a very public push towards analytics allowing all the journalists to write the "After losing out on LMA, Lakers finally step out of the dark ages and embrace analytics" articles and then we'll be done with it.

We clearly have an analytics department because Madsen says so in the article posted by OP.

[john248]

How many guys do you really need doing analytics? 3... maybe... doing full-time jobs, with Madsen over seeing them.

I wouldn't be pissed if they had 2, with Madsen as their third.

People are really over hyping this whole analytics thing.

Analytics isn't just some stat guys. It's really just the buzzword for more information and how that information is used. Just to give you an idea, someone like Stan Van Gundy, who has criticized analytics by non-basketball people, has expanded the Pistons analytics department. So he has assigned 1 guy to each division to watch full games where obviously he'll have 2 sets of eyes when teams from different divisions play each other. He's marrying this info to go along with the statistical info that he trusts. I wouldn't say these things are a 2 man group isolated. Everything works together. Probably need a couple guys just to weed through al the SportVU stuff that is now available.

So we're saying this would take 8 guys?

I really don't know. Whether it is 8 or 5 or 10, it won't financially break a franchise worth a billion dollars. While finding competent guys is the hardest part, this is something that can be turned around in a year or 2 at the most. The Blazers went from being like the Lakers to near the top after they hired Ben Falk. Falk went on to a front office position with the Sixers last year. Probably why this was important to LaMarcus Aldridge.

[lake_show]

I really don't know. Whether it is 8 or 5 or 10, it won't financially break a franchise worth a billion dollars. While finding competent guys is the hardest part, this is something that can be turned around in a year or 2 at the most. The Blazers went from being like the Lakers to near the top after they hired Ben Falk. Falk went on to a front office position with the Sixers last year. Probably why this was important to LaMarcus Aldridge.

Ah... yeah. That makes a lot more sense. Thanks.

[dingclancy]

The state of analytics with the Lakers is only one symptom. We are also behind in our heath and medical department with antiquated methods.

Our pitch to Aldridge showed not only lack of understanding on Analytics, but lack of malleable minds everywhere else (coaching among the biggest)

[mcscotty]

It's the Moneyball effect. Hollywood rules the world.

[Jakay]

While I do respect the more "old school" method of verification by the eye test, there are times where some number crunching feedback is plainly and painfully lacking.

But this is sort of the last days of an old regime. I don't just mean Kobe being towards the end of his career; you can really see the Lakers starting to wake up to some new methods, if only, at the moment, by their now glaring omissions from the culture.

Also that ESPN section has a serious case of derp programming.

[Teen Girl Squad]

The state of analytics with the Lakers is only one symptom. We are also behind in our heath and medical department with antiquated methods.

Our pitch to Aldridge showed not only lack of understanding on Analytics, but lack of malleable minds everywhere else (coaching among the biggest)

This. Old school training methods instead of better ones, outdated understanding of injuries/recovery/nutrition, we have a "just work hard" coach instead of one with top shelf development programs. There's a reason teams like San Antonio and OKC seem to "hit" a lot more in the draft and it has as much, if not more, to do with how they train and develop their talent than just judging talent better (though I'm sure they have a better idea of what skills can or cannot be improved to an NBA level). Much like the Dodgers are finally doing (unlike my now terrible Angels franchise), there is no reason the Lakers shouldn't use their market advantage to have league leading analytics, sports science, coaching etc.... to have an elite infrastructure for continued success. As seen this offseason, despite being bad, players are still willing to consider going here. The Lakers' still hold the advantage of being the most desirable franchise/location to play for, given everything else being equal. Problem is we are way behind in a lot of ways.

[dockingsched]

this is an interesting 12 minute video that looks into one of these "advanced" methods that some teams and coaches are implementing into their team database.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66ko_cWSHBU&noredirect=1[/youtube]

[tweet]http://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/618609500153626624[/tweet]

The things they talk about links back to the sportvu camera set up that all arenas have now.

The amount of data and the type of information these systems can givens endless, but gotta have the right people answering the right questions.

From the video my favorite part was the shot chart that amog other things, pointed out the difference between a good shooter that takes bad shots and a bad shooter takes good shots. Not all 47% shots/shooters are the same.

[TyCobb]

God I hate this era of sports. Whoever has the best laptop wins.

[john248]

this is an interesting 12 minute video that looks into one of these "advanced" methods that some teams and coaches are implementing into their team database.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66ko_cWSHBU&noredirect=1[/youtube]

[tweet]http://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/618609500153626624[/tweet]

The things they talk about links back to the sportvu camera set up that all arenas have now.

The amount of data and the type of information these systems can givens endless, but gotta have the right people answering the right questions.

From the video my favorite part was the shot chart that amog other things, pointed out the difference between a good shooter that takes bad shots and a bad shooter takes good shots. Not all 47% shots/shooters are the same.

This stuff is interesting. Mike Zarren had some interesting things to say about SportsVU. With SportsVU, each team can further customize what defines a type of play similar to what Rajiv talks about when he's defining pick-n-rolls in the video. After it's definited, any team can ask specifically for PnRs, ISOs, closeouts, etc, on an oppoent, and SportsVU can cut it all up and have that video available. All the additional information stuff is interesting like the 47% you pointed out.

Over at APBR, they ran a season long predictability simulation, and the SportsVU based one came out on top, and IIRC 538's RAPM model came in 2nd.

[dockingsched]

Mitch on the mason and Ireland stated that their analytics department Includes 5 staffers with advanced mathematical degrees, including two with PhDs.

He confirmed that mark madsen is the liaison between the analytics dept and the coaching staff.

He kinda brushed off the question about how Byron used the info just saying that at the end of the day Byron will be jusged by wins and losses and once he gets more talent the wins will come.

[Slava]

You almost get the feeling that the analytics department is there for the sake of being there rather than being integrated into the basketball ops like with most other teams. I also don't think Byron at this point in his career is even willing to earn new stripes so the only hope is to get a newer coach next season once Kobe is off who will pull this together.

[dockingsched]

It definitely doesn't feel like it's part of the culture, just a side thing that 5 guys work on and mark madsen ultimately decides which data they provide is useful and not useful.

[ArC_man]

At least the number's grown from 4 to 5. I think all 5 of them should be Ph.D's, can't believe only 2 are.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdi3FIrsHgo[/youtube]

[john248]

I wonder if those 5 guys understand basketball though. Those numbers have to be meaningful in the context of the game. I wonder how well they're working with the scouting too.

[dockingsched]

I wonder if those 5 guys understand basketball though. Those numbers have to be meaningful in the context of the game. I wonder how well they're working with the scouting too.

My take away from Mitch's interview and other reports is that the analytics department is completely isolated and their only meaningful contribution to the team is filtered via Mark Madsen. Seems like nobody really knows who they are or that they existed, so hard to imagine that they've been integrated as part of the culture and every day operations of the team.

[john248]

I wonder if those 5 guys understand basketball though. Those numbers have to be meaningful in the context of the game. I wonder how well they're working with the scouting too.

My take away from Mitch's interview and other reports is that the analytics department is completely isolated and their only meaningful contribution to the team is filtered via Mark Madsen. Seems like nobody really knows who they are or that they existed, so hard to imagine that they've been integrated as part of the culture and every day operations of the team.

If that's so, my guess is that change will have to come with a coaching change since it's not going to come from the top.