iamworthy wrote:john248 wrote:iamworthy wrote:Not sure what the purpose of changing coaches when we continue to not give a coach a team he can win with. Also, keep Thibs away from this team. He is the exact opposite of Pop. Pop doesnt seem to overwork his players while Thibs seem to run his players into the ground. Thibs is going to where out his welcome wherever he goes within 5 years.
It's rather naive to just parrot what idiot media people say about Thibs and his minutes distribution while praising Pop at the same time. Pop can play his players no more than 30 minutes because they have 3 or 4 really good players and depth too. You have to realize that there is enough talent on this team to even sit out the top players for multiple games and still get a top playoff seed. This is a luxury for good teams and such a situation isn't applicable to all teams which is very important to note.
The Bulls were never one of those teams once Rose was injured (especially on a team without a 2ndary scorer), and Rose didn't play any more minutes than what we've seen from other top players in the last decade. Thibs got an unfair label of working players when there are other players who play high minutes but now we're to believe that minutes is the sole reason for injury and not changes in style of play and a player's athleticism. What people fail to understand is that if Thibs doesn't play his good players those minutes, they likely don't go to the playoffs. The team has to be good enough to rest players.
Players want minutes. But the majority of them don't want to be told to hustle on defense and focus most of their energy there.
Thibs is a great defensive coach. I give him the majority of the credit for the Celtics beating the Lakers in the Finals. But as a all around coach I think theres questions. I would argue that its a little naive to just ignore mulitiple reports of the same thing.
Some Bulls players purposely avoided Tom Thibodeau in offseasonSome players didn't support Thibodeau's return during exit interviews and avoided him during the past offseason.
Thibodeau's unrelenting intensity is well known by now, but the perception was that his players had his back. That might not have been entirely accurate. News about them taking a break during the offseason, choosing to work out outside the Bulls' practice facilities to avoid him, suggests his style had been wearing thin on them for a while.
Thibodeau has been known to ride his star players for heavy minutes, a practice that has been going out of style as teams try to find ways to prevent injury. Over the years, multiple Bulls have been encouraged to play through pain by their coach, which can also explain why some might have turned on him.
Thibodeau defends division of labor- Chicago Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau on Friday defended how he divvied up playing time in Wednesday night's triple-overtime win over the Orlando Magic, specifically the fact that Jimmy Butler played a franchise-record 60 minutes, 20 seconds.
Thibodeau has been criticized in years past for overplaying All-Star Luol Deng and, before his string of injuries, former league MVP Derrick Rose.Now he has come under fire for his use of Butler, even though none of his players lead the league in minutes played.
The Chicago Bulls have been decimated by injuries, and it might be their coach's faultIn an era when players' minutes are monitored more closely than ever, Thibodeau continually plays his players higher minutes than the rest of the NBA. Butler leads all players in minutes per game this season at 38.7. Pau Gasol, at age 34, is averaging almost 35 per game (his highest in three years) and Rose's minutes have gone up each month of the season — 23 to 25 to 30 to 34 to 32 (before getting injured).
These aren't new trends for Thibodeau, either. Butler ranked second in minutes per game last year, and Joakim Noah averaged 35 minutes per night. Noah had to get knee surgery in the offseason and has seen a decline in his numbers this season.
In 2011-12 and 2012-13, former Bulls forward Luol Deng led the NBA in minutes per game with 39.4 and 38.7, respectively.
Thibodeau is not necessarily responsible for players' injuries — much of it could be freak accidents. But in recent years, player health and minutes per game have become much more closely linked than in the past. The Spurs have gone to great lengths to limit playing time for guys like Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili during the regular season. This year, LeBron James is averaging 36.4 minutes per night — the lowest number of his career. Teams are simply scaling back minutes for their best players.
Is Thibs 100% at fault...of course not. But do you want to bring this guy in to coach our young guys? Thibs seem like the type of coach you bring in when you have an established team that cant get over the hump. Thibs might be the modern day Larry brown.
I didn't address Thib's intensity anywhere in my post mainly because the issue I took was minutes distribution and comparing him to Pop. The funny thing people do is they'll say Thibs grinds his players then generally they won't commit to blaming that on Rose's injury. It's plain ignorance to compare Thib's situation to that of the Spurs, and I just can't stress this enough. If the Spurs didn't have depth, you'll either see an uptick in the minutes minimally for Parker and Leonard or far more losses than they should have by not playing players who can play more than 32 mpg. That Business Insider article you quoted is a crap piece. And ya know, players sleeping, eating, getting massages, icing down after games...not unique to the Bulls...typical half-ass ESPN article.
Meanwhile, we should be burning Phil Jackson for playing Kobe 38-40 minutes for the majority of his career and Jordan almost 40 minutes past the age of 30. Screw the Championships, let's rest the guys because the media guys say minutes are bad. McHale should've said "screw it, I'll just play Harden 32 mpg and get worse seeding and not go deep in the playoffs". Because there isn't a part of me that thinks playing Jason Terry more so Harden can get a breather means that the Rockets win the same amount of games. That will be tough to sell anyone on. And of course, there are a number of players who played large minutes on the past 20 years who aren't injury prone.
Additionally, I don't know how much of this is Bulls front office throwing him under the bus or how much it's on Thibs. Probably a nice combo of both. Well, there's the Reinsdorf aspect too. The narrative changes a lot for a lame duck coach, and Thibs was on the chopping block a couple seasons ago. So he finds himself in a lose-lose situation even though his teams are winning which is just crazy. This is the same head coach who's team made the playoffs last season and finished top 10 in team SRS. But his players play too many minutes so shame on Thibs. But just a few years ago when Rose was initially injured, the Bulls made the 2nd round and everyone, and I mean everyone, was praising Thibs.
I don't care much if he's a short term coach given his personality. Even on a young team, he managed to get good production out of a couple late 1st round picks in Butler and Gibson. He also had a part in the production of the early picks like Noah, Rose, and Deng...each top 10 picks. Mirotic did well last year as a rookie. I don't mind him much when it comes to developing young players, giving them defined roles, and making them productive. Because of this, I don't see him as a coach to bring into get over the hump when he hasn't been over the hump himself outside of Rose's MVP year...well I guess technically not since they didn't win the championship, but ECF is still impressive on a 60+ win season.
My issue with him is different. I just don't think he really gets what good offense is which is why I don't see him as a championship coach unless he comes to terms with hiring a great offensive assistant. When Rose was healthy, he ran an offense that relied too much on Rose. Come playoff time, it just was too easy for opposing teams to just collapse on Rose which ended up smothering the Bulls offense. And in recent years, the offense wasn't impressive still. His line-ups are always defensive slanted to a fault. But yes, I'd rather him be the coach than Byron Scott. As for next year, it would be dependent on which coaches are available and which assistants are on the rise.
