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Training Camp roster/cuts. Update pg 8: Jabari waived MWP makes team

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Training Camp roster/cuts. Update pg 8: Jabari waived MWP makes team 

Post#1 » by dipstick » Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:16 am

I believe that the Lakers are already at 15 players possibly 16 with Michael Frazier.

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Russel
3. Clarkson
4. Randle
5. Hibbert
6. Williams
7. Bass
8. Young
9. Black
10. Nance
11. A. Brown
12. Sacre
13. Kelly
14. J. Brown
15. Holmes
16. Frazier

IMHO, it is possible (maybe wishful thinking) that players from 12 down are bubble players. Granted that Sacre and Kelly have guaranteed deals, their deals are only for 1 year and we may be better served by cutting their asses and have no long term effect. Of course, it should only happen if there is a player that we would want more than them.

Depending on how that shakes up, Upshaw might very well still be included in the training camp roster. With his past troubles and his being out of shape, I think it is doubtful that anyone offers him any guarantees at this point. Hopefully the Lakers are monitoring his development through the summer and offers him something IF he gets into shape.

Assuming that only positions 1-11 are safe, I would think that we should still add a PG, a wing and a true C. But if Sacre and Kelly are going to be safe, then I think PG would be the most needed just for lack of depth.
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#2 » by So Gutta » Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:36 am

Good ranking. Yeah I'd think Sacre and Kelly are definitely on the bubble and if they're outplayed in training camp/preseason by Holmes, I could see them being cut. Sure they're guaranteed, but it's only $1 MIL, so I don't see why management wouldn't rather roll the dice on a young player who shows promise over two players whose upside is essentially zero. If Frazier outplays Jabari Brown, then he could get the nod over him too.
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#3 » by FrozenIceCubes » Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:43 am

Training camp is gonna be interesting.

I'd imagine that the FO is really trying hard to get rid of Sacre and Kelly they hold no value and are wasting a roster spot when those holes can be filled with veterans who can help the team.
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#4 » by TylersLakers » Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:31 pm

I think Michael Frazier will make the team over Holmes and Jabari Brown.
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#5 » by Lakers24gm » Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:59 pm

Reading about Michael Frazier sounds like the guy can really shoot it. Question for me is he big enough to play some 3 in the league. I think if he can do that it will help him make the team.
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#6 » by ArC_man » Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:13 pm

Frazier is the same size as Jabari Brown, the chances for him to make the team are slim.
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#7 » by dipstick » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:29 am

ArC_man wrote:Frazier is the same size as Jabari Brown, the chances for him to make the team are slim.


Jabari Brown has a better offensive game. Michael Frazier (from what we are hearing from reports) probably has a better defensive game, basically a small 3 and D guy. If the Lakers are unconvinced that Jabari Brown's offense is anything special, then my money will go to the guy with the better defense and maybe just as good perimeter shot.

I think at roster slots like this, you have to go with a player that knows his role.
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#8 » by Mirjalovic » Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:49 am

Jabari Brown probably the best shooter ever for the Lakers.
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#9 » by FrozenIceCubes » Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:10 am

The Lakers last 6 roster spots are filled with players who probably wouldn't make a NBA team.

Sacre
Kelly
Brown
Frazier
Nance
Brown


And some people think the playoffs are realistic? The Lakers roster is full of unknowns I think even the Lakers know next summer is gonna be the same storyline go for the jackpot and then Settle for scraps and d-league talent.
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#10 » by TylersLakers » Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:30 am

From a person who's seen Michael Frazier a lot (and live), take my word for it.

The guy will be in the arena shooting before Kobe gets there in the afternoon. He has the potential to explode from beyond the arc and he can defend both guard positions. His ball handling, floor vision and playmaking started to improve his final season at Florida. Unfortunately suffered an injury down the stretch that really impacted him and the rest of the team. Also, not one of Billy Donovan's finest coaching jobs either.

The difference between him and Jabari Brown is his effort level and mindset. While Brown is a natural scorer and things come easy to him, his basketball IQ really lacks and his effort level on the defensive end doesn't do him any favours.

You will get the best of Michael Frazier every time he steps on the court. Period. He may miss shots one night, he may turn the ball over trying to make plays every now and then, but you're going to get maximum effort which you can count on every night.
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#11 » by FrozenIceCubes » Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:48 am

Tylerlakers- I'm admired by the potential of some of these players. What I find interesting is that the Lakers have finally accepted that this is gonna be a LONG process and they are gonna rebuild this team for a while until they find there next franchise player they can build around.

Im excited about the young guys buts it's gonna be a painful process no doubt.
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#12 » by DEEP3CL » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:11 pm

Let me tell you what is going to happen with each player....

On roster players 1-12

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Russel
3. Clarkson
4. Randle
5. Hibbert
6. Williams
7. Bass
8. Young
9. Black
10. Nance
11. A. Brown
12. Sacre

Uncertainty players 13-16

13. Kelly - Has guaranteed deal but is easily trade dump material
14. J. Brown - Could be on opening night roster is team inactive A.Brown and options him to DL
15. Holmes - With a partial guarantee deal, he'll be inactive on opening night and optioned to DL which is the plan anyway
16. Frazier - Same situation as Holmes

Guys like Holmes and Frazier will be around and the team has come to realize we have to develop our own diamonds in the rough talent. So this is the reason they got the deals they got, so we can stash them away on the DL team and make them our property nobody can touch once they start to put up crazy numbers in the DL.

The real enigma's here are Sacre and Kelly, both have had ample time to show their talent but the team just happened to put guys on the roster a lot more talented than they are. Hibbert is probably going to play a little over 30 minutes and the rest will go to Bass and Black when we go small. So Sacre has no value to us other than if Roy has to sit a game or two.

Kelly's situation is 50/50....on one hand maybe he finally figures it out and specialize in the 3 area's the team needs him to excel at and that's consistent 3 pt shooting and rebounding at a higher clip and become a better weakside defender. Kelly has been up and down in all area's, but if he can get that stuff up maybe he becomes a decent trade asset teams covet anyway which is a long stretch 4. And even if we traded him all we could get is a 2nd rounder anyway, but seeing how Mitch finds gems with those picks it bodes well for us if can luck out with 2 picks in the 2nd for Sacre and Kelly. And that's a come up no matter how others here view it.
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#13 » by BEazy » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:03 pm

I honestly think J Brown or Holmes will be fighting for that last spot on the roster. I really don't want to see Sacre's bum ass on the roster...

And whats the deal with Upshaw? Is he going to be on the training camp roster?
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#14 » by dockingsched » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:55 pm

Seems like some people don't realize that you can't just stash players away in the d league and not have them be part of the 15 man roster. If they're not on the 15 man they're free game for any team to sign.

If these training camp invites end up getting cut the advantage you get is you can, if the cut player agrees, assign them to your d league affiliate without the player having to go through the d league draft. They'd still be free to sign an NBA contract with anyone at any time, but in the mean time you grow and develop the player under your watch.
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#15 » by DEEP3CL » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:10 am

dockingsched wrote:Seems like some people don't realize that you can't just stash players away in the d league and not have them be part of the 15 man roster. If they're not on the 15 man they're free game for any team to sign.

If these training camp invites end up getting cut the advantage you get is you can, if the cut player agrees, assign them to your d league affiliate without the player having to go through the d league draft. They'd still be free to sign an NBA contract with anyone at any time, but in the mean time you grow and develop the player under your watch.
Who said they wouldn't be part of the 15 man roster ?

A player has to sign a contract with the D League to be drafted by a DL team...that's fact.

A player cut while in camp and before the DL draft has to sign a contract with the D League but will allocated to that team as an "affiliate player". Teams can send up to 4 players cut from camp to it's DL team.

You do realize the Heat just played this cat and mouse game right ?...with Hassan Whiteside. You sign them to those deals to retain their D League rights, you can assign the player as many times as you like when a player has less than 3 yrs of NBA experience. But yeah they have to be apart of the 15 man roster which Holmes and Frazier will be but probably won't be activated much on the 12 man roster.

So basically in a nutshell they'll be stashed... unless you must think those guys will be cut ?

I don't think they'll be cut but they also won't be on the active roster unless it's an injury. That's why I said stashed....cause they won't be cut.

Lot's of teams are doing this now so their DL affiliates can retain that player DL rights even if cut. But no other teams can touch them period.
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#16 » by dockingsched » Sun Aug 23, 2015 2:51 am

DEEP3CL wrote:
dockingsched wrote:Seems like some people don't realize that you can't just stash players away in the d league and not have them be part of the 15 man roster. If they're not on the 15 man they're free game for any team to sign.

If these training camp invites end up getting cut the advantage you get is you can, if the cut player agrees, assign them to your d league affiliate without the player having to go through the d league draft. They'd still be free to sign an NBA contract with anyone at any time, but in the mean time you grow and develop the player under your watch.
Who said they wouldn't be part of the 15 man roster ?

A player has to sign a contract with the D League to be drafted by a DL team...that's fact.


its been an on going theme specially in any upshaw thread and in the free agent thread. People keep talking about stashing players in the d-league but not including them in the 15 man roster. if a player isn't on the 15 man roster, there's no such thing as "stashing them" cause they're free to sign with any nba team at any time.

A player cut while in camp and before the DL draft has to sign a contract with the D League but will allocated to that team as an "affiliate player". Teams can send up to 4 players cut from camp to it's DL team.


yeah, i said in my post if a player agrees to the assignment.

You do realize the Heat just played this cat and mouse game right ?...with Hassan Whiteside. You sign them to those deals to retain their D League rights, you can assign the player as many times as you like when a player has less than 3 yrs of NBA experience. But yeah they have to be apart of the 15 man roster which Holmes and Frazier will be but probably won't be activated much on the 12 man roster.

So basically in a nutshell they'll be stashed... unless you must think those guys will be cut ?

I don't think they'll be cut but they also won't be on the active roster unless it's an injury. That's why I said stashed....cause they won't be cut.


I don't know what you mean by "you sign them to those deals to retain their d league rights". if you are talking about an nba contract, those deals are signed to retain their nba rights, not their d league rights.



Lot's of teams are doing this now so their DL affiliates can retain that player DL rights even if cut. But no other teams can touch them period.


what are you referring to when you say no other teams can touch them? if you are talking about players that are on the 15 man roster on an nba contract, well yeah, obviously no other team can touch them, not sure why'd you need to reiterate that. if you are talking a player that isn't on the 15 man roster and was assigned to a d league affiliate, they're still free to sign with any nba team at any time. only context that i guess makes sense if you are referring to no other d league teams can touch them, but who really cares about that.
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#17 » by DEEP3CL » Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:52 am

dockingsched wrote:I don't know what you mean by "you sign them to those deals to retain their d league rights". if you are talking about an nba contract, those deals are signed to retain their nba rights, not their d league rights.
Okay....if a player signs a partial guarantee deal but cut, that teams DL affiliate retains his DL rights...it has nothing to do with his NBA contract. His partial salary offsets the DL's salary. What I'm saying is if the player has a partial deal, no team can touch him when he's on their DL affiliate. And on top of that he still has to sign the standard DL contract and then he's allocated as an "affiliate player".

Like I said maybe you think the players will be cut, I know that any player on a DL roster that isn't an "affiliate player" can be signed by some other team.

I'm talking in terms of Holmes and Fraizer, they will almost certainly but put on the 15 man roster but maybe not the active roster. They can stay on the DL team as long as needed.

I think I was very clear on how teams can keep players they feel are talented enough to one day make their regular 12 man squad. I don't know how you got me mixed up on thinking the guys wouldn't be on the 15 man roster when I stated in my first post they have to make that roster on the partial deal to even be optioned to the DL.
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#18 » by dockingsched » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:44 am

DEEP3CL wrote:
dockingsched wrote:I don't know what you mean by "you sign them to those deals to retain their d league rights". if you are talking about an nba contract, those deals are signed to retain their nba rights, not their d league rights.
Okay....if a player signs a partial guarantee deal but cut, that teams DL affiliate retains his DL rights...it has nothing to do with his NBA contract. His partial salary offsets the DL's salary.


yep agreed, if a training camp invite on partial guarantee, full guarantee, or even non guarantee, gets cut and agrees to go to the d league aka signs a contract with the d league, he can be assigned directly to that same nba team's d league affiliate without having to go through the d league draft.

What I'm saying is if the player has a partial deal, no team can touch him when he's on their DL affiliate. And on top of that he still has to sign the standard DL contract and then he's allocated as an "affiliate player".


since you mention affiliate player, you have to be referring to a player that was cut. if this is the case, he's free to sign with any nba team he wants at any time. so i guess when you say no team can touch him, you have to mean no d league team can touch him but since the players sign contracts with the d league itself rather than individual d league teams, thats an odd statement. better just to say affiliate players can bypass the d league draft and go straight to your d league affiliate.


Like I said maybe you think the players will be cut, I know that any player on a DL roster that isn't an "affiliate player" can be signed by some other team.


affiliate players can be signed by any NBA team at any time. the only d league players that cant be signed by other nba teams are nba player assigments. these are players that are on a current 15 man roster with an active nba contract that have been sent down for whatever reason. the other type of player that can't be signed by other nba teams are players who's draft rights you still hold, similar to how 2nd round picks that don't immediately make their way over to the nba stay overseas for a few seasons.

I'm talking in terms of Holmes and Fraizer, they will almost certainly but put on the 15 man roster but maybe not the active roster. They can stay on the DL team as long as needed.

I think I was very clear on how teams can keep players they feel are talented enough to one day make their regular 12 man squad. I don't know how you got me mixed up on thinking the guys wouldn't be on the 15 man roster when I stated in my first post they have to make that roster on the partial deal to even be optioned to the DL.


you're the one that replied to me when i was just making a general post about a recurring theme i've seen on the board.

also, partial, non guaranteed, or fully guaranteed, that part of it is irrelevant.
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#19 » by aaron_gray » Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:11 am

DEEP3CL wrote:
Kelly's situation is 50/50....on one hand maybe he finally figures it out and specialize in the 3 area's the team needs him to excel at and that's consistent 3 pt shooting and rebounding at a higher clip and become a better weakside defender.



lmfao
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Re: Training Camp roster/bubble players 

Post#20 » by DEEP3CL » Sun Aug 23, 2015 7:47 pm

aaron_gray wrote:
DEEP3CL wrote:
Kelly's situation is 50/50....on one hand maybe he finally figures it out and specialize in the 3 area's the team needs him to excel at and that's consistent 3 pt shooting and rebounding at a higher clip and become a better weakside defender.



lmfao
You do know I don't believe any of that will happen right ? Far as I'm concerned Kelly is toast going forward....it's just a matter of time when he's off the roster.
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