Re: Russell, Randle, Clarkson

[methius]

Clarkson is a fun player but he isn't a starter on a playoff team.

[milesfides]

Ginobili is one of the best 2 guards in the history of the game. He's sacrificed his game and stats for the Spurs...he could as easily been a superstar on a different team. I'd say the closest current player to Ginobili would be James Harden. The only thing Russell has in common with those guys is the ability to throw one-handed rocket passes on the money.

Talent wise yes but health wise I don't think he could have sustained the usage and wear and tear that comes from being a superstar first option on a team. To his credit and luck, he fell to the perfect coach and organization.

All true, but I was comparing skills and overall game. T-Mac was fragile and had a short career but he still was a superstar and one of the top talents the league has seen.

So far Russell has shown a polished, soft stroke with that midrange pull up, broad perimeter vision, and a pitcher's arm. Deron Williams kind of comes to mind, as frivolous a projection as projections can be at this point. Still, like Williams has shown, coach and system and personnel will dictate how effective Russell will be. He's not a once-in-a-generation player who naturally commands a team (CP3, Jason Kidd, Magic). But can't really complain about that.

[Hangman_52]

They need to get as much game experience as possible. So when they get that top 3 pick and use it on Simmons they will have the building blocks for a dynasty. They just need a new coach after this year and a real offensive system other than the never win anything Princeton Offense that Jim is trying to shove down our throats.

[Slava]

Ginobili is one of the best 2 guards in the history of the game. He's sacrificed his game and stats for the Spurs...he could as easily been a superstar on a different team. I'd say the closest current player to Ginobili would be James Harden. The only thing Russell has in common with those guys is the ability to throw one-handed rocket passes on the money.

Talent wise yes but health wise I don't think he could have sustained the usage and wear and tear that comes from being a superstar first option on a team. To his credit and luck, he fell to the perfect coach and organization.

All true, but I was comparing skills and overall game. T-Mac was fragile and had a short career but he still was a superstar and one of the top talents the league has seen.

So far Russell has shown a polished, soft stroke with that midrange pull up, broad perimeter vision, and a pitcher's arm. Deron Williams kind of comes to mind, as frivolous a projection as projections can be at this point. Still, like Williams has shown, coach and system and personnel will dictate how effective Russell will be. He's not a once-in-a-generation player who naturally commands a team (CP3, Jason Kidd, Magic). But can't really complain about that.

Deron was a very physical player though, mostly working with his body on a defender. Fundamentally I don't think Russell will be that kind of player, he shies from contract and tries to be a bit more elusive with his handles and trickery.

He did seem to do a great job of keeping his defender on his hip when he navigates picks to get to his sweet spots for a jumper.

He's going to be good. That I have no doubt of, in his pomp he's going to launch 3s off screens and pop shots off the dribble because he needs so little separation for his jumper. That automatically keeps the defenders on their heels to open his passing game.

[TyCobb]

And that's when the Lakers will start winning.

[milesfides]

Deron was a very physical player though, mostly working with his body on a defender. Fundamentally I don't think Russell will be that kind of player, he shies from contract and tries to be a bit more elusive with his handles and trickery.

He did seem to do a great job of keeping his defender on his hip when he navigates picks to get to his sweet spots for a jumper.

He's going to be good. That I have no doubt of, in his pomp he's going to launch 3s off screens and pop shots off the dribble because he needs so little separation for his jumper. That automatically keeps the defenders on their heels to open his passing game.

Of course, the comparison breaks down in the details. Yes, Deron is much more physical - they just have different body types too. Deron is squat and strong, Russell is longer and smoother. But they are notable for their midrange pull-up jumper. Deron's is quicker, Russell's is smoother and softer. But regardless, it's a major asset that not many other point guards have, especially in this league of threes and layups.

As a passer, they have similiarities. Quick, decisive, and accurate passes. Very good with one hand too, like Williams. One thing that separates them is Russell's lack of north-south passing and transition passes, but this probably has a lot to do with Byron Scott's version of the Princeton Offense / ISO half court, and personnel. With a better system and the right combination of teammates, he'll get more opportunities to use those passing skills, both around the perimeter and past the defense. Right now, it's mostly kicking it to the open man on the perimeter, because nobody is cutting to the basket.

I don't know about the three-pointer. If it's going to be a major weapon, he's got to have a faster release. If he's got a devastating first step, he'll have room for a slow release. But he doesn't. He said his own game is like Steph Curry, but that's ridiculous. Steph gets his shot off quicker than anybody, anywhere on the court, and he uses his crafty dribbling to get by defenders.

Things to work on. But right now, we could use his passing as a team, and develop his individual game, by changing the offense and rotations so we'd get more team play. That we can do right now.

[Michael Lucky]

I don't know about the three-pointer. If it's going to be a major weapon, he's got to have a faster release. If he's got a devastating first step, he'll have room for a slow release. But he doesn't. He said his own game is like Steph Curry, but that's ridiculous. Steph gets his shot off quicker than anybody, anywhere on the court, and he uses his crafty dribbling to get by defenders.

Things to work on. But right now, we could use his passing as a team, and develop his individual game, by changing the offense and rotations so we'd get more team play. That we can do right now.

Russell's release is one of the quickest in the game, where are you getting this slow release stuff from. I'm completely confused here. lol

[ALL HAIL]

I don't know about the three-pointer. If it's going to be a major weapon, he's got to have a faster release. If he's got a devastating first step, he'll have room for a slow release. But he doesn't. He said his own game is like Steph Curry, but that's ridiculous. Steph gets his shot off quicker than anybody, anywhere on the court, and he uses his crafty dribbling to get by defenders.

Things to work on. But right now, we could use his passing as a team, and develop his individual game, by changing the offense and rotations so we'd get more team play. That we can do right now.

Russell's release is one of the quickest in the game, where are you getting this slow release stuff from. I'm completely confused here. lol

It's not quick to me either -- it's actually on the slow side.

[Mirjalovic]

when it's wide open it's slow but it's usually quick

[Dr Aki]

when it's wide open it's slow but it's usually quick

do you mean like russell's a one-motion shooter instead of a two-motion shooter?

[dockingsched]

I don't know about the three-pointer. If it's going to be a major weapon, he's got to have a faster release. If he's got a devastating first step, he'll have room for a slow release. But he doesn't. He said his own game is like Steph Curry, but that's ridiculous. Steph gets his shot off quicker than anybody, anywhere on the court, and he uses his crafty dribbling to get by defenders.

Things to work on. But right now, we could use his passing as a team, and develop his individual game, by changing the offense and rotations so we'd get more team play. That we can do right now.

Russell's release is one of the quickest in the game, where are you getting this slow release stuff from. I'm completely confused here. lol

His quick release is one of the aspects of his game I like the most, like you i'm confused about the slow release mentions.

nbadraft.net

Shows good form on his shot and a quick release.

nba scouts via latimes

NBA scouts have described Russell as having a quick release and a smooth left-handed stroke.

hoopshabit

Russell has an extremely quick shooting motion and release

tons more talking about his elite ability to shoot off the dribble which in itself necessitates a quick release

[Michael Lucky]

yeah i'm baffled, not sure what people are looking at, unless he's expected to play volleyball out there.

[Laker_Kid]

Randle seems passive to me lately. I want more 22-point games from him like he did the first game against the Mavs.

[yitur]

[*]

Randle seems passive to me lately. I want more 22-point games from him like he did the first game against the Mavs.

It mostly seems like he doesn't know what to do when he is not on the strong side. Lakers offense seems to stagnant and no off-ball movement. I can't blame the players for it, it seems like we don't have any plan offensively. It's all ISOs or a pick on the top so it counts as a P&R but mostly they are just bail out plays when the ISO doesn't work.

[milesfides]

Who cares what some writers say about something that hasn't been quantified?

The eye test can be VERY WRONG.

For example, writers and pundits took as a fact that Jeremy Lin was unathletic. However, the athletic workouts, measurements and quantification during the PIT and BAM showed the "eye test" was wrong (for whatever fun reasons you can think of). Darryl Morrey - "Lin is the most explosive athlete we have ever measured". D'Antoni when he was with the Knicks said the same. And that quantification is proven by Jeremy Lin's numbers when it comes to penetration and scoring at the basket. All this, despite what commentators say, and what some fans claim to observe with their own eyes.

Funnily enough - Steph Curry had plenty of doubters who looked at him and said he was too slight, not athletic enough, and his shot was unorthodox. Which is conventionally true, I thought the same until I saw him closely in his sophomore year - his release was ridiculous quick because he shoots it in a seamless motion from the up-dribble, and gets rid off it starting from almost his hip. His range gives him extra space, and his ability to dribble drive punishes close defenders.

Eye test can be very wrong, assumptions about players can be very wrong.

So claiming that Russell has elite ability to shoot off the dribble? Flat out wrong from three-point land.

First, the eye test;

Russell is way more tentative shooting the three off the dribble than catch-and-shoot. He doesn't have the quickness or jab step that creates enough space. He loads up too much on his shot, and doesn't use his legs to speed up his shot. Russell Westbrook has a fast release because like Ray Allen, he uses his legs and jumps into it. Russell has a smooth release, but it's not fast. He slows down as he brings the ball up, and his release point is slightly on the descent. This is why it seems like he's squeezing off his shots, rather than pushing like Curry (early release) or Reddick (mid-release).

That's my eye test, and I don't see him comfortable with the space that the defender gives him.

The numbers are strong companion for the eye test.

Russell is shooting 22% on pull-up threes. That's not very good. Yes he's a rookie. But even fellow rookie Mudiay, despite his overall shooting woes, is posting 30% on pull-ups threes.

Russell is much better on catch-and-shoot threes (35%). He shoots 3x as many catch-and-shoot as pull up threes, which makes sense; a player is generally open on catch-and-shoots, so one don't need such a fast release on them. However, a fast release is generally necessary for pull-up threes, because the defender is right there, ready to challenge the shot.

For comparison, somebody with similar size and a legit three-point threat is Bradley Beal, who has a fast one-motion release, and he's a unreal 54% on pull-ups (last year was still solid 38%).

Of course, if you're throwing up the term "elite," just look at guys like Reddick (46%), Curry (44%). Klay last year was at 40%. Elite is a player who takes enough and converts closer to 40%. Plenty of star point guards who are just OK at pull-up threes, around 30%.

And there are young point guards who are showing some good stuff, fast release and high conversion. Zach LaVine is notable for posting a healthy 39% on pull-up threes, which he takes twice as often than catch-and-shoots. It's a real weapon for him.

Still, it's not impossible for Russell to become more of a three-point threat.

Change his mechanics:
Eric Gordon recently changed his mechanics and became one of the best shooters in the league. He's at 42% on pull-up threes this year.

Get more respect for the drive:
James Harden has had a horrendous start this year, but the past year he's been around 35%. Harden himself doesn't have a fast release, but his driving ability gets so much respect, he has the space to load up and shoot the pull-up.

Jeremy Lin doesn't have a fast release, but his defenders respect his drive - he has plenty of time to load up and let it fly. He's shooting a blistering 55% on pull-up threes, and even under the horrible season last year against Byron Scott's war on three pointers and personal beef, he still ended up a solid 37% on pull-up threes.

Use his length, be confident:
CJ McCollum doesn't have a fast release, he also loads up on his jumper. But he has long arms, a consistent release, squared up, and he lets it fly. He posted 36% last year, and this year a ridiculous 48%.

I do think Russell will get better, this being his rookie season, and his all around game improves, driving, passing, he'll at least have a little more space to get his shot off and have the confidence to shoot it more. Or I hope so.

But no, he doesn't have a fast release on his threes and it's not a major weapon for him right now. You are free to have that as an assumption or belief, though.

[Wavy Q]

maybe add Nance to this post, he's been doing really well in his limited play time

[jeroka]

Clarkson with a fine game. Russell bricking wide open looks won't get him a lot of minutes.

[gts1]

maybe add Nance to this post, he's been doing really well in his limited play time

I was thinking the exact same thing during the game...

We have 4 great young kids to watch grow on this team

[moonpie]

To add to the Russell shot release conversation, I have noticed that it's a little slower than it was in college. At Ohio St. he usually just popped up on his release with great results. So far, he winds it up a little more, especially from the 3 point line. I'm assuming it's just to compensate for lack of leg strength at this early stage of his career.

[Dilly]

We can keep both, have an interchangeable backcourt like Suns