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What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell

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What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#1 » by NBAWestFan » Mon Nov 9, 2015 5:27 pm

What are your qualities of a Great Point Guard?

What does it take to be a Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Steve Nash or Jason Kidd?

1.
2.
3.
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Re: What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#2 » by Marionettetc » Mon Nov 9, 2015 7:00 pm

1. Decision making
2. Natural talent
3. Shooting
4. Vocal leadership
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Re: What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#3 » by Kilroy » Mon Nov 9, 2015 7:05 pm

Elite court vision, ball handling, decision making and competitiveness.

And an ability to see plays develop before they happen. Along with ambidextrous, pin-point passing ability.

I don't think there'll ever be another freakish combination of talents/gifts like Magic... But Stockton, Nash, and Kidd were all of a similar type, and they all were excellent scorers too... You need to be able to score the ball to keep defenders honest.

They also had an innate ability to break up plays on the other end and gain possession.

Russell has a lot of this and more... IMO, he's lacking competitiveness and decision making. He needs to get back to thinking he's the best player in the world and start working to prove it. He's also about a half-beat slow on everything right now, but if he's motivated, that will correct itself.
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Re: What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#4 » by WVlakerfan » Mon Nov 9, 2015 7:22 pm

3 out of 4 of your standards played well under the rim. All three were great finishers around the rim without dunking the ball. They were also not afraid to attack the paint i think this is where Russell needs to improve. He is settling for the jump shot at the foul line every time on the P&R. You have to be able to hit that shot to keep defenses honest but you also have to be able to drive past them and get to the rim every now and then, and i have yet to see him do that. I may be wrong but the only shots I've see him getting around the rim come either in transition or the couple times he has dove to the rim while kobe/randle was operating in the post.

I think he needs to watch some film of Kyrie(post lebron return) and see how he is able to get to his spots on the court. Also it illustrate how to play with a point forward type player that Randle could be.
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Re: What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#5 » by iamworthy » Mon Nov 9, 2015 7:32 pm

Kilroy wrote:Elite court vision, ball handling, decision making and competitiveness.

And an ability to see plays develop before they happen. Along with ambidextrous, pin-point passing ability.

I don't think there'll ever be another freakish combination of talents/gifts like Magic... But Stockton, Nash, and Kidd were all of a similar type, and they all were excellent scorers too... You need to be able to score the ball to keep defenders honest.

They also had an innate ability to break up plays on the other end and gain possession.

Russell has a lot of this and more... IMO, he's lacking competitiveness and decision making. He needs to get back to thinking he's the best player in the world and start working to prove it. He's also about a half-beat slow on everything right now, but if he's motivated, that will correct itself.


To address the last part of your post, playing with a legend has to be hard. Russ said Kobe is this generation's MJ, that's gotta be difficult because you kinda catch yourself in aww sometimes. This is Clarkson and Randles second year and they really didn't have to go through what Russ is going through because Kobe was hurt yet they still got the advantage to pick his brain for info. So I just think it's hard to think of yourself as the best player when your playing with a legend, even if he's done. He's getting better every game but when Kobe is gone I think you will see a big difference.
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Re: What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#6 » by NBAWestFan » Mon Nov 9, 2015 9:16 pm

I like Kilroy's Answer.

I was hoping for a lot more qualities.

My kid plays and was hoping they would also help her out.

I think maybe DLO needs a few more moves like mentioned
He needs a floater or some kind of angle breaker move because
he is not the fastest.
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Re: What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#7 » by Doormatt » Mon Nov 9, 2015 10:13 pm

Kilroy wrote:Elite court vision, ball handling, decision making and competitiveness.

And an ability to see plays develop before they happen. Along with ambidextrous, pin-point passing ability.

I don't think there'll ever be another freakish combination of talents/gifts like Magic... But Stockton, Nash, and Kidd were all of a similar type, and they all were excellent scorers too... You need to be able to score the ball to keep defenders honest.

They also had an innate ability to break up plays on the other end and gain possession.

Russell has a lot of this and more... IMO, he's lacking competitiveness and decision making. He needs to get back to thinking he's the best player in the world and start working to prove it. He's also about a half-beat slow on everything right now, but if he's motivated, that will correct itself.


i actually think Nash was more talented than Magic because of his shooting ability, but Magic was unique because of his size. Nash also didn't have an ability to break up play, he just played fundamental defense and didn't gamble like we see a lot of point guards do today. I think Russell would do well to learn from Nash, because I think he has the potential to be a very similar player.

It also doesn't make sense to criticize him for lacking "competitiveness", its not his fault that so many players are ahead of him and the coach benches him when he starts playing well. DLo is a unique position in that he's playing behind someone like Kobe, remember when Kobe first came in the only person he had to compete with was Eddie Jones, its not like he had to avoid stepping on any toes. Just because Dlo doesn't exhibit confident **** qualities like Kobe or MJ doesn't mean he isn't competitive. The decision making will also just come with time. I would blame the FO and the coach for ruining any confidence DLo has or had
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Re: What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#8 » by Levity » Mon Nov 9, 2015 10:27 pm

one quality russel needs to address is court awareness when it comes to defenders. yes, hes great at finding an open teammate (really great, in fact), but he needs to understand where the defender is in relation to him (when coming off the pick and roll) and how they are defending his teammates.
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Re: What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#9 » by Kilroy » Mon Nov 9, 2015 10:52 pm

Doormatt wrote:
Kilroy wrote:Elite court vision, ball handling, decision making and competitiveness.

And an ability to see plays develop before they happen. Along with ambidextrous, pin-point passing ability.

I don't think there'll ever be another freakish combination of talents/gifts like Magic... But Stockton, Nash, and Kidd were all of a similar type, and they all were excellent scorers too... You need to be able to score the ball to keep defenders honest.

They also had an innate ability to break up plays on the other end and gain possession.

Russell has a lot of this and more... IMO, he's lacking competitiveness and decision making. He needs to get back to thinking he's the best player in the world and start working to prove it. He's also about a half-beat slow on everything right now, but if he's motivated, that will correct itself.


i actually think Nash was more talented than Magic because of his shooting ability, but Magic was unique because of his size. Nash also didn't have an ability to break up play, he just played fundamental defense and didn't gamble like we see a lot of point guards do today. I think Russell would do well to learn from Nash, because I think he has the potential to be a very similar player.

It also doesn't make sense to criticize him for lacking "competitiveness", its not his fault that so many players are ahead of him and the coach benches him when he starts playing well. DLo is a unique position in that he's playing behind someone like Kobe, remember when Kobe first came in the only person he had to compete with was Eddie Jones, its not like he had to avoid stepping on any toes. Just because Dlo doesn't exhibit confident **** qualities like Kobe or MJ doesn't mean he isn't competitive. The decision making will also just come with time. I would blame the FO and the coach for ruining any confidence DLo has or had


Not to split hairs, but Magic was far more 'talented' than Nash. You may be able to make the argument that Nash was more 'skilled' due to his relative physical limitations... And, he was a threat from anywhere on the floor. He just focused more on passing. Nash was a better shooter, but not a better or as versatile a scorer.

Competitiveness is an entirely internal trait... If you lack it, it's your fault. Not really anyway around that.

Not sure if you've been reading the rest of the forum, but I've been calling Kobe out as much or more than anyone... And Kobe taking touches away from Russell and ruining the offense is real... No question. But Russell's relative lack of commitment and questionable work ethic has been a theme lately and seems to be just as real.
To me poor work ethic = Lack of competitiveness.

Nobody's asking for Kobe/MJ.... We'd just like a nice compliment to Clarkson/Randle.
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Re: What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#10 » by jeroka » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:24 pm

being able to breakdown the defense by driving to the hoop is one of the major qualities of a great point guard, at least champion point guards. even slow guys like Nash and Stockton are able to beat their man off the dribble and drive to the hoop, either to score or dish it off.
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Re: What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#11 » by Kilroy » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:01 pm

jeroka wrote:being able to breakdown the defense by driving to the hoop is one of the major qualities of a great point guard, at least champion point guards. even slow guys like Nash and Stockton are able to beat their man off the dribble and drive to the hoop, either to score or dish it off.


Stockton did most of his damage offensively in transition of off of Pick and Rolls with Malone... He was tough as nails, crafty and reasonably athletic/quick, but he wasn't breaking too many guys down off the dribble.
Nash was essentially a more skilled version of Stockton... He wasn't breaking people down 1:1 off the dribble, he had good to great bigs to PnR opponents to death with... In fact, he wasn't much to write home about UNTIL he had a good PnR partner.
Nash and Stockton were great floor generals and excellent distributors, but without Malone and Amare/Marion, I'm not sure they'd be in this discussion.
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Re: What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#12 » by NBAWestFan » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:47 pm

Great points made.

You need to be able to create your offense at times by scoring or being a decoy to pull the defense to
a certain area and dish it off.

Also, Stockton and Nash were not exactly the best athletes but were great passers of the pick
and roll or a no-look pass to a Big down low

Thank you.

I hope to see more comments.
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Re: What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#13 » by jeroka » Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:56 pm

Kilroy wrote:
jeroka wrote:being able to breakdown the defense by driving to the hoop is one of the major qualities of a great point guard, at least champion point guards. even slow guys like Nash and Stockton are able to beat their man off the dribble and drive to the hoop, either to score or dish it off.


Stockton did most of his damage offensively in transition of off of Pick and Rolls with Malone... He was tough as nails, crafty and reasonably athletic/quick, but he wasn't breaking too many guys down off the dribble.
Nash was essentially a more skilled version of Stockton... He wasn't breaking people down 1:1 off the dribble, he had good to great bigs to PnR opponents to death with... In fact, he wasn't much to write home about UNTIL he had a good PnR partner.
Nash and Stockton were great floor generals and excellent distributors, but without Malone and Amare/Marion, I'm not sure they'd be in this discussion.


Nash and Stockton would use that pick and just drive to the hoop to score or dish it off. Not necessarily streetball style ankle breaking stuff, but you give them space they'd take it to the rack. They are also very good finishers, and could finish against contact. both are tough as nails as you pointed out. not soft and cudly, they don't shy away from contact. Sample size is so far not that big, well because Dangleo doesn't really drive that much, but I've noticed that he avoids taking the contact when he does drive.

also, I also seem to notice Russell almost taking himself out of plays after the first pass... his motor should keep going.
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Re: What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#14 » by john248 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:09 pm

It's really simple. The ability to pass, dribble, and score. A player needs to be fundamentally good in order to build upon those skills.

Magic had elite size and passing ability. His elite size at his position made it so that he could see the court even easier given that he already had great offensive BBIQ. Being able to post up made it so that he had additional avenues to both score and pass from. 1987 is talked about as his peak season because that's when his scoring was at his best which further made his passing and thus his overall completeness as a player just all the more dominating.

Nash was another fundamentally sound player. Due to this, he was able to build upon his fundamentals to create an unorthodox style of play. The guy was doing clever scoop shots, shooting off the "wrong leg", and just killing bigs on switches by either shooting over them or making the correct pass. We're talking one of the top 5 shooters ever in the history of the league here to go along with how clever a scorer he had to become in order to be an elite offensive player. He's also a guy who never lost his dribble. People talk about how being in MDA's system made him (which did indeed help) but they also almost always ignore the nuances of Nash's game that made him an elite player and top 5 all time PG to begin with.

To be an elite PG, they need to be that triple threat of passing, dribbling, and scoring. I'm not worried so much about Russell's passing ability; the kid has good vision. But while Russell is a solid ball handler, he's going to have to improve on that so that he can keep his dribble alive, break down defenses, and have it be at a level where he can use his dribble to get to a spot on the floor when he wants to. Now people are going to read this as "OMG Russell's handles doesn't suck. He's good!" But we're talking about how to be a "Great PG in the League" now, and if you think there's no room for improvement, there's not much to tell you then.

A great PG needs to be a threat to score. That's what separates Magic, West, Nash, and CP3 from a guy like Kidd and even Stockton. Not just score, but do it well. Isiah could score and pass, but his scoring was overrated. If KJ wasn't so injury prone, his legacy may be different. In any case, Russell will need to find ways to score whether by improving his finishing and becoming a knock down shooter. I do feel this is the most important aspect to his game that HAS TO DEVELOP. Without elite scoring ability, he won't be great. He'll just project to be a starter quality guy which is fine, but not something any of us want to settle for. The scoring ability is what will allow for him to warp the defense to him and thus make it easier for everyone else to fall into their roles too. When Magic is in the post, you have to double him. When Nash is in a PnR, you have to cover him. And the thing is, both these guys can still beat you.

Of course, we're just talking about the cream of the crop. Drop down a tier or 2, and you'll have a player like Westbrook. Then other guys like pre-injury Rose and yet further down tier like Wall or Teague. Where Russell will slot is anyone's guess.

I saw some Nash discussion above. He did lead an offense without Amare (went down with injury) and still had a deep playoff run. Plenty of times where he gets into the paint to find something too.

Kidd wasn't an excellent scorer either. He was by definition of a PG who was excellent in transition which was his main bread and butter. In the half court, he wasn't awesome by any means or rather didn't stand out due to his lack of scoring really. What made him special was transition and being great defensively.
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Re: What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#15 » by Speedlot » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:17 pm

Intelligence. Composure. Leadership. Skills aside these are incredibly important. Managing egos and leading a crew is a tough tough job. Magic was the king of this. He actually had to manage Kareem who was a tough silent type. He put Bscott, Worthy, and cooper etc under his command. They're all his bitches even to this day. And willing bitches too.
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Re: What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#16 » by RingsDontLie » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:22 am

I agree with many points already made...decision making, natural talent, high skillset, etc.

As for being able to get in the paint I feel Russell will have this ability. He has an excellent crossover dribble, and since his shot is good people are going to over play him.
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Re: What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#17 » by PKABOOICU » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:24 am

Kilroy wrote:Elite court vision, ball handling, decision making and competitiveness.

And an ability to see plays develop before they happen. Along with ambidextrous, pin-point passing ability.

I don't think there'll ever be another freakish combination of talents/gifts like Magic... But Stockton, Nash, and Kidd were all of a similar type, and they all were excellent scorers too... You need to be able to score the ball to keep defenders honest.

They also had an innate ability to break up plays on the other end and gain possession.

Russell has a lot of this and more... IMO, he's lacking competitiveness and decision making. He needs to get back to thinking he's the best player in the world and start working to prove it. He's also about a half-beat slow on everything right now, but if he's motivated, that will correct itself.



Everything in this post sums it up

D'Lo has mostly all of these attributes except athleticism (which I HONESTLY think is very very overrated for a point guard). Ball handling, vision, jumper and defense are much more important to a guy handling the ball rather than athleticism.

His decision making isn't wrong, per se, because he is one of the few point guards who already sees a play BEFORE it happens...however, it makes him turnover prone because the guy he's passing the ball to is usually a split second late for the cut, or may not have his hands ready for the pass. Ive seen this with brandon bass and roy hibbert already. Some of those turnovers wouldn't be turnovers if they just had their hands ready for a pass.
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Re: What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#18 » by Mirjalovic » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:28 am

as for Russell it's ballhandling skills, like Chris's and both of Step/v's
shawn_hemp wrote: a guy who is far worse than Robert Covington in Brandon Ingram, and a guy who is no better than TJ McConnell or Tony Wroten in D'Angelo Russell.

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Re: What are the qualities of a Great Point Guard? This will help Russell 

Post#19 » by NBAWestFan » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:32 pm

john248 wrote:It's really simple. The ability to pass, dribble, and score. A player needs to be fundamentally good in order to build upon those skills.

Magic had elite size and passing ability. His elite size at his position made it so that he could see the court even easier given that he already had great offensive BBIQ. Being able to post up made it so that he had additional avenues to both score and pass from. 1987 is talked about as his peak season because that's when his scoring was at his best which further made his passing and thus his overall completeness as a player just all the more dominating.

Nash was another fundamentally sound player. Due to this, he was able to build upon his fundamentals to create an unorthodox style of play. The guy was doing clever scoop shots, shooting off the "wrong leg", and just killing bigs on switches by either shooting over them or making the correct pass. We're talking one of the top 5 shooters ever in the history of the league here to go along with how clever a scorer he had to become in order to be an elite offensive player. He's also a guy who never lost his dribble. People talk about how being in MDA's system made him (which did indeed help) but they also almost always ignore the nuances of Nash's game that made him an elite player and top 5 all time PG to begin with.

To be an elite PG, they need to be that triple threat of passing, dribbling, and scoring. I'm not worried so much about Russell's passing ability; the kid has good vision. But while Russell is a solid ball handler, he's going to have to improve on that so that he can keep his dribble alive, break down defenses, and have it be at a level where he can use his dribble to get to a spot on the floor when he wants to. Now people are going to read this as "OMG Russell's handles doesn't suck. He's good!" But we're talking about how to be a "Great PG in the League" now, and if you think there's no room for improvement, there's not much to tell you then.

A great PG needs to be a threat to score. That's what separates Magic, West, Nash, and CP3 from a guy like Kidd and even Stockton. Not just score, but do it well. Isiah could score and pass, but his scoring was overrated. If KJ wasn't so injury prone, his legacy may be different. In any case, Russell will need to find ways to score whether by improving his finishing and becoming a knock down shooter. I do feel this is the most important aspect to his game that HAS TO DEVELOP. Without elite scoring ability, he won't be great. He'll just project to be a starter quality guy which is fine, but not something any of us want to settle for. The scoring ability is what will allow for him to warp the defense to him and thus make it easier for everyone else to fall into their roles too. When Magic is in the post, you have to double him. When Nash is in a PnR, you have to cover him. And the thing is, both these guys can still beat you.

Of course, we're just talking about the cream of the crop. Drop down a tier or 2, and you'll have a player like Westbrook. Then other guys like pre-injury Rose and yet further down tier like Wall or Teague. Where Russell will slot is anyone's guess.

I saw some Nash discussion above. He did lead an offense without Amare (went down with injury) and still had a deep playoff run. Plenty of times where he gets into the paint to find something too.

Kidd wasn't an excellent scorer either. He was by definition of a PG who was excellent in transition which was his main bread and butter. In the half court, he wasn't awesome by any means or rather didn't stand out due to his lack of scoring really. What made him special was transition and being great defensively.


Excellent Points John248.

A Elite PG needs to have excellent handles and though Dlo has great Vision he needs to work
on his dribbling and speed so that he can get by defenders like KJ, and even if he is more of an outside shooter
like Curry he needs to be able to be a threat with his handles and be an Ankle breaker like what happpened to CP3.
He needs to get a Quicker Release and know his Spots on the Floor and he did say he is still learning his ways on the court.
Defense will improve with Speed and Stamina and the desire is from within.

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