Agreement in place - Mozgov 4 yrs 64 mil

[crazyeights]

Bringing up Fisher is a poor example as it was a different time and system. Phil loved Fish. We never had draft picks or looked to develop young prospects. He was a veteran and veterans are how you contend. Plus it was the triangle, so PG wasn't necessary.

Are you suggesting veterans don't help shape young players and help their development? As I said above Fisher never really had a prospect to help except Farmar, but you can only lead a horse to water. Farmar's problems were his own.

If you want to talk about Fisher, take a look at how Westbrook and Durant speak of him.

As for our future is in the kids, of course I agree, as I believe was the point of my post. You say you want to see how they do...so you want to put them in a position to succeed. Good, we agree there.

Yet you want to put them in a position to succeed and not spend money on a legit center? You realize if we didn't sign a role player -- meaning someone who gladly plays his role -- then it could actually take touches away from Russell and Ingram. Something I don't want, and I don't think you do either.

On that note of signing a legit center who doesn't need the ball to be effective, I fail to see how Mozgov hurts the kids. Or how punting would actually help them. It actually is counterintuitive.

See guys that are complaining about this signing are trying to have it both ways: they want to punt and not spend money, AND they want the kids to be developed or to sign a guy on THEIR timeline.

At some point you have to say our young assets are worth developing over continually being dismal and tanking. That being perpetually bad is actually worse for the long term health of a team and a young player than trying to squeeze one last blue chip prospect out of.

You bring up the Celtics and I totally agree. I'd add the Sixers, the Jazz, the Suns, and almost any young team except maybe the T-Wolves as far as our prospects go.

So if we both agree we like our young core...then don't they NEED a true center, if even for 20mpg to compete and grow?

You ask how desperate do they have to be...well they won 17 games. That's how bad we are.

You're upset your team signed someone out of the gate? At 12:01? It's called having a plan.

And it's a nice change of pace from the last few years.

[Kirito]

Bringing up Fisher is a poor example as it was a different time and system. Phil loved Fish. We never had draft picks or looked to develop young prospects. He was a veteran and veterans are how you contend. Plus it was the triangle, so PG wasn't necessary.

Are you suggesting veterans don't help shape young players and help their development? As I said above Fisher never really had a prospect to help except Farmar, but you can only lead a horse to water. Farmar's problems were his own.

If you want to talk about Fisher, take a look at how Westbrook and Durant speak of him.

As for our future is in the kids, of course I agree, as I believe was the point of my post. You say you want to see how they do...so you want to put them in a position to succeed. Good, we agree there.

Yet you want to put them in a position to succeed and not spend money on a legit center? You realize if we didn't sign a role player -- meaning someone who gladly plays his role -- then it could actually take touches away from Russell and Ingram. Something I don't want, and I don't think you do either.

On that note of signing a legit center who doesn't need the ball to be effective, I fail to see how Mozgov hurts the kids. Or how punting would actually help them. It actually is counterintuitive.

See guys that are complaining about this signing are trying to have it both ways: they want to punt and not spend money, AND they want the kids to be developed or to sign a guy on THEIR timeline.

At some point you have to say our young assets are worth developing over continually being dismal and tanking. That being perpetually bad is actually worse for the long term health of a team and a young player than trying to squeeze one last blue chip prospect out of.

You bring up the Celtics and I totally agree. I'd add the Sixers, the Jazz, the Suns, and almost any young team except maybe the T-Wolves as far as our prospects go.

So if we both agree we like our young core...then don't they NEED a true center, if even for 20mpg to compete and grow?

You ask how desperate do they have to be...well they won 17 games. That's how bad we are.

You're upset your team signed someone out of the gate? At 12:01? It's called having a plan.

And it's a nice change of pace from the last few years.

Fisher is a perfect example on how detrimental vets can be to young players. Brown Blake and Farmar was all better Players then Fisher we never got a chance to develop thanks to Fisher hogging all the minutes when the guy was worthless. All because he was a vet. I would of put all the blame of Phil if it wasnt for someone like Luke Walton showing us that a player could change everything when he made Phil play Ariza over him *IE Develop young players*

No one was going to say anything bad about Fisher at the time when he was the head of the players union. Just not going to happen plus with the way everyone has to be totally PC not going to happen...

At the thought that 5 RPG and 6.9 PPG is a legit center one who is coming from Knee Surgery mind you....
You know who matches those stats oo yeah Tarik Black 5.1 RPG and 5 PPG
You know who else has those stats Roy Hibbert 4.9 RBP 5.9 PPG and we crushed him couldnt wait to get rid of him....

How can you not fail to see how he hurts the kids he hurts them in more then 1 way.
1st off with his contract its going to be hard to bench him at all. Want proof of that look at the Dodgers the past few years with CC no matter how bad the guy is and was he would be penciled into the line up because of his contact and ended up being a cancer on the team want proof of that. Before he came back from injury this year we had one of the best records in base ball. He shows up we tail spin just lost after lost after lost we was behind in the WC and 6+ back of the division . We get rid of him then we start winning He gets DFA we start wining now we are 3 up on the WC and 1 back of the division. That despite having a DL list that would fight for a play off spot... While losing the best pitcher in baseball for now a month and counting....

2nd off with him taking up so much cap money its less options to sign upgrades and holes as needed because you have Mozgov taking up so much space....

3rd We could of done a lot more with that cap space in getting more assist to help the kids future by having more young talented players come in from cap space for picks who can then in turn turn into good vets. or just more young players to fill out our roster right now roster wise players we have who are worth anything
Russel
Clarkson
Ingram
Randle
Nance
Zubac
Williams
that is not a lot of flexability meaning we cant make trades because we cant afford to part with anyone we just dont got the talent to do so...

Punting does help the kids it lets them have hope for the future plus we could of had a better team if we did not sign Him.
Players we could of signed who are better and cost less.
Ezeli 7.4 Mil Per year
Jefferson 9.5

Signed to an offer sheet to
Leonard
Marjanovic

Traded for just cap space
Bogut

Possible trades for for just capspace
Kanter
Monroe.

All those would of made us a better team without sacrificing the future. None of those moves put you into tanking mode at that they make you a better team. Plus add assist to your team unlike with Mozgov who when you want to get rid of you need to attach assits to just to get rid of


You know whats worst then not having a plan its having a bad plan and executing it because your already starting from a losing end. While if you dont have a plan it might just work out....

[crazyeights]

Again, your Fisher comparison is revisionist, simplistic crap. Detrimental? To Brown Blake and Farmar? They aren't anywhere near the prospects that Russell and Ingram are. And Blake as in Steve Blake? Dude was **** 30 when he came to LAL. Is that a serious point you're trying to make?

We were a completely different team back then in every single way. We had Phil who didn't believe in playing rookies. We had a front office who didn't collect assets, who treated first round picks like the plague. They didn't want those guaranteed contracts getting in the way of constructing a contender.

You're acting as if Mozgov is taking minutes from Russell at point guard. The fact is we have had a giant hole at starting center.

Westbrook had 3 knee surgeries in 18 months....Surgeries are part of the game. Kobe had his knee scoped multiple times. It depends what the surgery was and how they'll recover. I've said this over and over since signing Mozgov, but of course it all depends on whether or not he's healthy. I can only imagine that the actual front office has better information than we do on that front.

Again you take **** completely out of context just to fit your argument. Mozgov's raw averages aren't anything special, because he's been coming off the bench as a role player for his career. Having said that, before he went to Cleveland he was seen as a guy who gave you a lot of value. He's only averaged 18.2 career mpg. If you want to look at his per 36 numbers you'll see he's productive.

The Lakers went into the bargain bin, thought a step ahead and are obviously planning on playing him like Bogut who played 20.7 mpg this year. 23.6 last year.

I would have loved Bogut (and suggested multiple times for the move.) Having said that, I'm sure that if Luke really wanted him, we would have gotten him. The problem with trading for Bogut was a few fold: optics/competition-wise you'd be helping a team in your divion get Kevin Durant. A 73-win team no-less. At the same time, you'd risk losing out on capable free agents by wasting time. The Bogut trade didn't happen until after KD made his decision. That was 7 days after we signed Mozgov.

Say another team jumps in and offers a better deal? Or Durant didn't choose to go to GSW? They might not have traded Bogut. We went for the sure deal in order to build consistency. Something you seem to undervalue. Consistency and chemistry. The reason you sign a guy to a longterm contract is so that players can actually continually play together. Why make things more difficult on young players by changing who is anchoring the defense every year?

Mozgov is a much better fit for this team than Hibbert. He's much more agile and athletic. He's much more efficient. Even in a down year he shot 13% more than Roy.

I don't see Kanter going anywhere as he was part of what made OKC special during the playoffs. He'll be even more important with KD gone.

Monroe? Do you even want these kids to have a defensive center? What an awful idea. Bad defense just for some low post scoring? He is totally antithetical to the direction we're going. The fact is Mozgov is a good offensive and defensive fit to play a limited role. If we had Monroe we'd have to give him 12 shots a game. Moz takes less than half of that. Same goes for Jefferson. And Ezeil, dude took less because he has actual injury concerns (and he dumped himself in the finals, guy was practically blocking himself on the rim).

This signing isn't as bad as you're trying to make it out to be, man. If he's healthy he could easily be a solid part of the puzzle for the next couple years while we build a team identity.

[ArC_man]

As if Farmar, Brown, and Blake are now stars without Fisher. What's next? Matt Barnes hurt the development of Devin Ebanks?

[Kirito]

Its not revisionist its how i and a lot of people see it. You see it one way i see another way just like with Mozgov's. Am i saying Farmar Blake and Brown would of been all stars no i did not. I just stated they was better then fisher and should of had a chance to develop something that did not happen thanks to Fish being on that team and that is detrimental that they never had a chance.
You say we had a front office well its the same front office. At that its because we had that front office back then that we are having the issue's right now of having very little yet very good talent.

While they are not taking minutes from Russel or Ingram they will be taking minutes from Randle Nance and Zubac also taking minutes from Black. He will also be taking money from being used on the Center position going forward because of how much he is making you dont want to spend 2 much in 1 position.
I see your very invested in defending fisher no reason to contiune on that path. lets go back to to my other example CC from the Dodgers who the Dodgers even thought there is no salary cap and have what seesm to be unlimited funds had to play CC even though he is useless why because of his contract. While in the perfect world players would not get minutes based on that we know that aint the case.

CCwas so detrimental to the team that we was looking at missing the play offs while he was on the team he goes away we start winning. If 1 bad player in a vacume *is only 1 out of 9 players on the field and only 3 at bats out of at min 27 at bats made that much disctuction. How you feel someone like Mozgov is going to do to a team. Where there are only 5 players on the court at the time and each player matters a lot more. That he is getting time over a more diserving player just based on his contract for 4 more years.....

Are you really going to use Kobe as an example that should be my example seeing how bad he became after he needed surgery thats the last name you should bring up. We gave Kobe a contract everyone said was a bad contract to give a player comming off of surgery and what did that give us ooo yeah #2 #2 draft picks and the worst 3 year span in Laker history.
Ok so i am taking his stats out of context because like you said he was coming off the bench yet you are ok with paying a bench player that much money for 4 years yet dont see a problem with that.. If we signed Black to the same contract you would be defending it seeing how they have pretty much the same stats. Even down to shooting Black 568 vs Mozgov's 537. Minutes per game are pretty close at 16.6 vs in your own words Mozgovs 18.2. If we take your logic not mines Black would be very productive right just as long as we look at his Per 36

If someone would of jumped in and sign Mozgov with a better contract that is not a bad thing we would not have 2 of the worst 10 contract in this offseason. I fail to see how "losing out" on Mozgov is a bad thing... I did not just list Bogut as my only example i listed more as well btw. Lakers did not go into the bargain bin that would mean they would not of signed Mozgov for the worst contract in the offseason when it was signed it was seen as the worst contract in the off season. By the end of the offseason it is still seen as the worst contract of the off season....

I dont see how post injury Mozgov is a better fit for this team then Hibbert. They are the same player you color dye Mozgov black and you get Hibbert. They both cant move cant run or rebound or shoot.You talk about changing center well then wouldnt that of just been better to stick with Black and Hibbert while allowing Zubac time to grow. That would of been plus 1 year of consistency and chemistry. I hear a lot that the kids loved Hibbert he would of been better and at a fraction of the cost. for the same role your talkign about...

You cant bring up Ezeil and the playoffs without looking at Mozgov oo wait you cant because he was so bad that they picked not to play him because he is just that bad. At least with Ezeil you could say he got time on the floor more then we can say about Mozgov. Ezeil got paid like his play offs said he should of been paid while we paid Mozgov like if he played like an allstar.....

[crazyeights]

Mozgov has the same deal effectively as Bogut. It's only 11-12 million if it were last year's scale. You're making way too big of a deal about it. It's pretty simple.

[Kirito]

Mozgov has the same deal effectively as Bogut. It's only 11-12 million if it were last year's scale. You're making way too big of a deal about it. It's pretty simple.

How is it the same contract when Bogut has only 1 year left. On top of that when Bogut signed his contract he was a Double Double waiting to happen with one of the best D in the league at center. That just shows how bad Mozgov contract is when you put it that way. Like you said he got the same contract as Bogut...

[Kilroy]

Fisher completely turned around the Lakers when he came back... You weren't a fan then if you think Fisher was detrimental to the team...
Sure he was old and slow and a bottom tier PG, but as a side-kick to Kobe, willing to just take the shots given him and do all the dirty work, he was second to none... Watching Fisher play probably did more for Farmer than playing himself.
Not to mention he played basically for Peanuts.

I'm baffled that anyone could think Fisher was directly responsible for the crap 1 talent we had... That's maybe the silliest thing I've read on this forum in the over 10yrs I've been here...

[dAdo dA dEvil]

I have so much respect for Fish.

Yes he bricks a lot of jumpers and misses lay ups when he was old but Fish is clutch. He makes the shots when it's crucial and when it matters. I will always remember that 0.4 against the Spurs. Too bad we never won the title that year. That crucial 3 in the finals against the Magic and I was shouting and running around like crazy when he made that shot. That lay-up against the Celtics during the finals. I don't know how he made it but Fish was really pumped up after Pierce said that the series ain't going back to LA. And that buzzer beater against the Mavs after they beat us during the playoffs.

If Kobe will take someone to war with him I bet it will be Fish.

A true Laker fan knows what Fish brought in this team.

[tugs]

Uhm, from Blatt to Lue, changed the system in Cleveland and coming off surgery hence the "demotion". And oh, Kevin Love got back.

I don't see the problem of having a player that fills a need, doesn't command the ball much, and plays effective, especially under a system he is familiar with with Shaw being around.

C'mon, I know Mozgov isn't a sexy signing but could we at least see him play first? Luke knows what he's doing. Mozgov was beasting first time they Dubs and Cavs faced off last 2015, and Luke could've seen Mozgov to neutralize small ball basketball.

And as if he'll play 30+mins for 82 games. There's this thing called "transition" and we'll eventually see it when the right time comes.

Sent from my Lenovo Z90a40 using RealGM mobile app

[Jody Smokz]

You won't find one credible person that says Mozgov's contract is good. The problem is the alternatives got the same deals and none of them are better and you can easliy make the case that a healthy Mozgov is better than Biyombo and Mahimi. Both whom got the same contracts as him. In the end he fits with JC and DLo the best. It's about THEIR development.

Mozgov has the same deal effectively as Bogut. It's only 11-12 million if it were last year's scale. You're making way too big of a deal about it. It's pretty simple.

How is it the same contract when Bogut has only 1 year left. On top of that when Bogut signed his contract he was a Double Double waiting to happen with one of the best D in the league at center. That just shows how bad Mozgov contract is when you put it that way. Like you said he got the same contract as Bogut...

[iQon]

We still have people harping over mozgov? The contract is signed, I think it's time to let it go.

I'm not the most optimistic about him, either, but he's a Laker, now. And I've seen far worse signings. At some point we all have to accept reality and check our allegiances.

[BEazy]

This guy injured his groin playing a friendly....SMH......

Let's go Zubac!

[Tee212]

well revisit this thread after a few more games. lol at some of the reactions.

[stan francisco]

Yeah, if he stays healthy, there will be a lot of crow eating here in a short while.

[Kirito]

Yeah, if he stays healthy, there will be a lot of crow eating here in a short while.

I dont know 64 Mil for 22 Mins wont make anyone eat crow unless we win the NBA Finals because of those 22 Mins. He needs to be able to play at the level he did for an extra 8 mins per game to be worth that contract. Other players you could of split those 22 mins with and gotten way more money for the buck.
Nance 23mins
Zubac 7 Mins
Black 12 Mins
Ingram 24 Mins. Your telling me we could not of sent those mins between those plays.

[Kirito]

Yeah, if he stays healthy, there will be a lot of crow eating here in a short while.

Love this crowd with his 25% fg today with 5 fouls and a t

[MistyMountain20]

Yeah, if he stays healthy, there will be a lot of crow eating here in a short while.

Love this crowd with his 25% fg today with 5 fouls and a t

lol, he's 1/4, not 5/20. Most of the team is playing like ass. Jazz are a good defensive team.

[Kirito]

Yeah, if he stays healthy, there will be a lot of crow eating here in a short while.

Love this crowd with his 25% fg today with 5 fouls and a t

lol, he's 1/4, not 5/20. Most of the team is playing like ass. Jazz are a good defensive team.

He gets off the court we make a huge come back and take the lead he comes back they make a huge run.....

[MistyMountain20]

Love this crowd with his 25% fg today with 5 fouls and a t

lol, he's 1/4, not 5/20. Most of the team is playing like ass. Jazz are a good defensive team.

He gets off the court we make a huge come back and take the lead he comes back they make a huge run.....

I'm just addressing the FG% thing which was silly.