Can Odom Play Shooting Guard?

[dingclancy]

Kupchak suggested that Kobe can play SF and Odom at SG. How does that makes sense?

[AriesMar27]

it doesnt... most sg would fly right by odom... maybe if the lakers played a lot of zone defense he could do it. not only that but odom is scared to shoot the ball half the time....

[islander009]

Kupchak suggested that Kobe can play SF and Odom at SG. How does that makes sense?

I read that too, and i was thinking how would that work. Granted Kobe wont have any issue but LO will struggle chasing 2's like allen or rip. he isnt that active as a defender and i feel he will be beat my quicker 2's. If Odom is to play the 2, you might as well have him be the one because he can run the court and he occasionally takes the ball up court. But i really dont see LO playing the 2.

[hermes]

thats why mitch just gets the players not fills out the lineups, stick to your day job mitch!

[Gerald3Wallace]

having him play the 2 doesnt necessarily mean he will guard the 2s....they're probably just thinking about putting him at the 2 spot on offense, which will give the other 2s a hard time on defense...while on defense odom will just guard or help guard the 3 and 4

[milesfides]

They're talking about positions in the triangle offense. Odom did play more guard than forward in his first year under Phil Jackson, the 05-06 season. That year, Kobe played more on the wing, when Kobe averaged 35 points a game. This was also the year when Kobe scored 62 points in 3 quarters against the Mavs, and 81 against the Raptors.

There's no question Kobe is most productive and lethal when he plays more at the wing and high post.

But Odom had struggled to organize the offense effectively, he wasn't as proficient in that facilitator role, and the Lakers' offense became too dependent on Kobe to do everything (Odom would just pass him the ball at the top of the key almost every time). On top of that, Odom wasn't proving himself to be a capable 2nd scorer, especially on the perimeter.

Thus, Phil Jackson couldn't think of a better solution than put Kobe Bryant back at guard FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE TEAM, since Kobe knows the offense and has the ability to throw entry passes, read defenses, run the pick and roll, drive and kick, etc. The proof was in the pudding. In 05-06, Kobe dropped 50 points on the Suns twice in that season (once in the reg season, once in the playoffs), and the Lakers lost both games. The limitations of a one-man wrecking ball and the demands of a sputtering-team offense pushed Kobe out of the interior and onto the perimeter, to a more playmaking, facilitating role in the following seasons.

So Phil moved Kobe back to guard in 06-07. But that year was even worse, showing that his teammates simply weren't good enough - regardless of whether Kobe played the scorer or playmaker. Lamar had struggled facilitating the offense in the previous year, but when he moved into the frontcourt, Odom also struggled to consistently score. The conclusion was that Odom simply wasn't consistent enough to be a 2nd option in any context

Luckily, after Gasol's arrival, Odom embraced his role as the offside forward - and as the 3rd option. But how would he fare back at guard and as the fourth option when Bynum returns?

Odom's move back to guard will be a bit different than in 05-06. It won't be as demanding, since Fish can handle some duties (rather than the bit player Smush was), as well as Gasol in the high post, as well as Bynum in the low post, and of course, Kobe.

This time around, Odom won't have to be the Scottie-Pippen type of facilitator to Kobe's Jordan. Because we're not the Bulls, we're not the championship Lakers, we're something entirely different. We have quality at almost every position, everybody is a willing passer and a scoring threat. No longer are the Lakers relying on Kwame, Smush, and Luke. Having the right kind of talent at every position is conducive to fully realizing the potential of the triangle offense.

Also, this time around, Odom also doesn't have to be the 2nd option. So his role changes. Rather than a primary ballhandler at guard, Odom will be more of a trigger man and ball-mover. Rather than pulling up for the jump shot, he'll have to catch-and-shoot.

As a whole, the guard role that Odom will have to play would be less demanding, but at the same time, these simpler demands aren't his natural strengths, so he'll have to adjust.

And anyways, the offense relies on a certain level of interchangeability, and of course, Kobe's the ultimate bail-out card, so Odom will have ample time and wiggle room to acclimate himself with a modified role at guard.

Then again, why go through the trouble and risk of putting Odom through the adjustment, when they could probably acquire a more conventional catch-and-shoot small forward who could play perhaps even better defense? All at a cheaper cost? The Battiers, the Poseys, the Bowens, the Raja Bells, they don't make max-money. They make MLE money.

A proper analogy would be Matt Damon in the Ocean's movies. Matt Damon is an excellent actor, a leading actor, a serious actor. Wtf is he doing as a bit comedy actor in the Ocean's movies? Clearly it's really a Pitt-Clooney vehicle, everybody else is just along for the ride. Which is fine, because most of the supporting cast are role players. But Matt Damon? First of all, he's not very funny but he's trying really hard to be, and second of all, it's kind of a waste of his talent.

Then again, he's from Boston, so...figures.

[TommyTheCat]

They're talking about positions in the triangle offense. Odom did play more guard than forward in his first year under Phil Jackson, the 05-06 season. That year, Kobe played more on the wing, when Kobe averaged 35 points a game. This was also the year when Kobe scored 62 points in 3 quarters against the Mavs, and 81 against the Raptors.

There has never been any question that Kobe is most productive and lethal when he plays more on the wing and high post.

But Odom struggled to organize the offense effectively, he wasn't as proficient in that facilitator role, and the Lakers' offense became too dependent on Kobe Bryant (Odom would just pass him the ball at the top of the key almost every time). On top of that, Odom wasn't proving himself to be a capable 2nd scorer, especially on the perimeter.

Thus, Phil Jackson put Kobe Bryant back at guard FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE TEAM, since Kobe knows the offense and has the ability to throw entry passes, read defenses, run the pick and roll, drive and kick, etc. In that season, Kobe dropped 50 points on the Suns twice in that season (once in the reg season, once in the playoffs), and the Lakers lost both games. The limitations of a one-man wrecking ball and the demands of a sputtering-team offense, effectively pushed Kobe out of the post and wing and into the perimeter, to a more playmaking, facilitating role in the subsequent seasons.

Odom moving back to guard will be a bit different than before. It won't be as demanding, since Fish can handle some duties (rather than the bit player Smush was), as well as Gasol in the high post, as well as Bynum in the low post.

This time around, Odom won't have to be the Scottie-Pippen type of facilitator to Kobe's Jordan. Because we're not the Bulls, we're not the championship Lakers, we're something else. We have quality at almost every position, everybody is a willing passer, and everybody can be a threat. It's not like playing with Kwame, Smush, and Luke. Bynum is a passing and scoring threat, so is Pau, so is Kobe, so is Odom, so is Fish. This is conducive to fully realizing the potential of the triangle offense.

Also, this time around, Odom also doesn't have to be the 2nd option. So his role changes. Rather than a primary ballhandler at guard, he'll be more of a trigger man and ball-mover. He'll be more of a catch-and-shooter than a pull-up jump shooter.

As a whole, the guard role that Odom will have to play would be less demanding, but at the same time, these simpler demands aren't his natural strengths, so he'll have to adjust.

And anyways, there's a high level of interchangeability, and of course, Kobe's the ultimate bail-out card, so Odom will have ample time to acclimate himself with a modified role at guard.

good post. unfortunately, i'd put my money on him not being able to make the adjustment.

[AriesMar27]

They're talking about positions in the triangle offense. Odom did play more guard than forward in his first year under Phil Jackson, the 05-06 season. That year, Kobe played more on the wing, when Kobe averaged 35 points a game. This was also the year when Kobe scored 62 points in 3 quarters against the Mavs, and 81 against the Raptors.

There has never been any question that Kobe is most productive and lethal when he plays more on the wing and high post.

But Odom struggled to organize the offense effectively, he wasn't as proficient in that facilitator role, and the Lakers' offense became too dependent on Kobe Bryant (Odom would just pass him the ball at the top of the key almost every time). On top of that, Odom wasn't proving himself to be a capable 2nd scorer, especially on the perimeter.

Thus, Phil Jackson put Kobe Bryant back at guard FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE TEAM, since Kobe knows the offense and has the ability to throw entry passes, read defenses, run the pick and roll, drive and kick, etc. In that season, Kobe dropped 50 points on the Suns twice in that season (once in the reg season, once in the playoffs), and the Lakers lost both games. The limitations of a one-man wrecking ball and the demands of a sputtering-team offense, effectively pushed Kobe out of the post and wing and into the perimeter, to a more playmaking, facilitating role in the subsequent seasons.

Odom moving back to guard will be a bit different than before. It won't be as demanding, since Fish can handle some duties (rather than the bit player Smush was), as well as Gasol in the high post, as well as Bynum in the low post.

This time around, Odom won't have to be the Scottie-Pippen type of facilitator to Kobe's Jordan. Because we're not the Bulls, we're not the championship Lakers, we're something else. We have quality at almost every position, everybody is a willing passer, and everybody can be a threat. It's not like playing with Kwame, Smush, and Luke. Bynum is a passing and scoring threat, so is Pau, so is Kobe, so is Odom, so is Fish. This is conducive to fully realizing the potential of the triangle offense.

Also, this time around, Odom also doesn't have to be the 2nd option. So his role changes. Rather than a primary ballhandler at guard, he'll be more of a trigger man and ball-mover. He'll be more of a catch-and-shooter than a pull-up jump shooter.

As a whole, the guard role that Odom will have to play would be less demanding, but at the same time, these simpler demands aren't his natural strengths, so he'll have to adjust.

And anyways, there's a high level of interchangeability, and of course, Kobe's the ultimate bail-out card, so Odom will have ample time to acclimate himself with a modified role at guard.

good post. unfortunately, i'd put my money on him not being able to make the adjustment.

ditto... that and i doubt many guards will be defending odom as well... they'll just have their sf guard him... i dont see the benefit of having odom at the 2...

[Dr Aki]

its not as much of a matchup issue but more how they setup on their way down the floor

[Squirrel Boy]

Odom can play all 5 positions.

He is the most versatile player in the NBA.

It's just the mental aspect that gets in LO's way 98% of the time.

[Kweli]

Odom's biggest weakness on offense is his lack of a jumpshot and if he moves to SF we are worried he won't be able to spread the floor with Bynum and Gasol in the front court. How would him being at SG really change that compared to SF?

[Dr Aki]

if we sign artest

we could always get odom to play the point

odom-kobe-artest-gasol-bynum

drool

[8'sReverse]

Having Odom come off the bench as 6th man would solve many of these hypothetical questions and scenarios... especially if Ariza and/or Sasha are reading for a consistant starting roll, or if we indeed somehow get Artest w/o trading Odom.

[kobeaki]

i always used to argue, when we acquired odom, that perhaps the point would be a good spot for him...as passing, and, seeing the floor, as well as the size mis-match on offense would be positive facets for lamar, as well as he certainly would never be a "shoot first pg"....by that token walton could work there too...whoever is playing the two guards the opposing pg/faster guys...all predicated by kobe being on the wing....

perhaps; odom-1
fish-2
kobe-3
pau-4
andrew-5

could work, of course you need a coach who can adjust quickly with that starting lineup...can anyone say popovich?

[Erik Eleven]

Kupchak suggested that Kobe can play SF and Odom at SG. How does that makes sense?

For these types of things, provide link, please. You get out of a thread what you put into it.

[Sedition]

A shooting guard that can't shoot... that should be interesting.

I'm going to worry a lot more about our spacing if we have Odom-Gasol-Bynum at the 3-4-5. Boston's defense was able to collapse in on the paint because no one had to respect Odom's jumpshot... I just personally don't see Odom fitting on this team at all, unless he magically develops a reliable catch and shoot jumper in the offseason (I think his history would suggest that this is very unlikely). We've tried to accommodate his "versatility" by sliding him into every position from 2-5, but in the end his glaring weaknesses in fundamental bball prevent him from fitting in well anywhere in such a structured offense.

[joe.linnen]

I say we give it a try and see how it works this time around. Our team has a different look than last time we tried this line up. I think it could workout Odom wont have to handle the ball as much as before with Fisher in the backcourt. Also with Bynum and Gasol up front is hella better that Walton and Brown or Walton and Mihm. Odom should do just fine. I don't want to trae him and on the plus side, Kobe can go back to the wing. We all know that Kobe is at his best when he plays as a small forward. I say lets give it a try again and see where it gets us. I'm willing to bet that it would get us better results than before.

SF:Bryant
PF:Gasol>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Walton
C:Bynum>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Brown or Mihm
SG:Odom
PG:Fisher>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Parker