Staples and their weak crowd

[vinnycorleone]

I went to 2 playoff games this year (game 1 of nuggets series and game 3 of the nba finals) and wow was the crowd weak. Phil Jackson was right when he said playing at staples isnt really a home court advantage. Now i know we went 9-1 at home this playoffs but if we can learn anything from the playoffs its that home court advantage is huge. Denver may have gotten to the playoffs just because of their home court advantage. Same with utah. Boston had the best record at home for a reason look at their crowd. It might not effect an entire game but if it effects 1 play that goes our way...isn't it worth it? I'll be at the games screaming my *you know what* off I just hope the other "laker fans" out there bring their A game.

[LLcoleJ]

The problem is.. LA is a melting pot of all types- from all over the world. . Many people who attend might not even be Laker fans just but people going to the scene. ( who have money) the biggest issue is the costs vs. supply and demand. You can have 20,000 Laker fans foaming at the mouth to get in there and cheer until they cannot speak and more and pay the ticket prices. It just takes 10-15k casual fans who have a little more cash to stiffle that.

[DMan101]

The Darkening of the arena ala MSG must not have helped.Look at the effect the Warriors fans had using the towels VS The Mavericks.

[phat_24]

The 'Lights Out' theme was a good novelty to begin with but it really has taken the crowd out of the building. I watched game 5 on a big screen at a bar and it looked like only a handful of people to witness what was then the Lakers' biggest game of their season.

I believe having the lights put on the crowd would make them more a part of the game instead of the focus being solely on the game. Homecourt advantage isn't much when it seems like not a lot of people are there.

Having said that, the majority of the LA crowd in the lower bowls aren't who you would call eager fans. They're casual fans with big hip pockets. I looked at Boston's hometown (bandwagon ) fans and they made our crowd look like passers-by who were given free tickets to the game and who had no idea who the Lakers were You can't have that in a game 5 of the NBA FINALS!

[CITYOFANGELSX3]

the real fans are in the nose bleeding seats sitting by the band and the retired jersey's.

[Mindflayer]

Our playoff crowd is pathetic. No home court advantage at all. Off course they may be responsible for Buss paying the Luxury Tax over the next 5 years so they my be usefull. Maybe we should implement a policy like the New England Patriots due where the season ticket holders can't sell the tickets back to anyone but the Patriots. This way the real fans go to the game or the Lakers can recoup the Luxury Tax on the "playoff" fans.

[Danny Darko]

they should actually reduce ticket prices for the playoffs if they wanted a better home court advantage.

[milesfides]

At the risk of over-generalizing, I believe the most avid fans are generally those without money or otherwise struggling through some difficulty in life. I find there is a high correlation between economic status and interest in sports teams.

I am sure there are wealthy people who are crazy Laker fans. But on the whole, I think people tend to project onto sports their own subconscious desires for success and victory. Thus the attachment to the "hometown" team. You identify with that team, and the reason you want it to succeed is that you want to vicariously participate in the team's success.

Poor or otherwise struggling people tend to have a deeper need for success in their own lives.

The wealthy may find enjoyment in sports, but I doubt it has the same level of meaning, I doubt it arouses equal passion.

But it's inevitable. It's a business. Rich people can afford to pay for the good seats, and that's who you see on TV. Also, I've heard the acoustics of Staples Center affects how the noise is perceived, although that still doesn't address how Staples at times DOES seem to be rocking.

The Lakers need to do away with the stupid tacos. I mean, at best it trivializes the game, at worst, it's distracts the players from doing their jobs. We should involve them in a more meaningful way.

I've said this before, but I think the best thing to ensure a more raucous crowd is to program the florescent lighting to reflect the decibel level of the crowd. It would make for a more dramatic setting as well.

[Erik Eleven]

When the Lakers play hard nosed defense and run the fast-break, it's all but quiet in there. This city has a strong basketball culture and they only get really loud when the team puts up max hustle and plays tough d.

[dingclancy]

At the risk of over-generalizing, I believe the most avid fans are generally those without money or otherwise struggling through some difficulty in life. I find there is a high correlation between economic status and interest in sports teams.

I am sure there are wealthy people who are crazy Laker fans. But on the whole, I think people tend to project onto sports their own subconscious desires for success and victory. Thus the attachment to the "hometown" team. You identify with that team, and the reason you want it to succeed is that you want to vicariously participate in the team's success.

Poor or otherwise struggling people tend to have a deeper need for success in their own lives.

The wealthy may find enjoyment in sports, but I doubt it has the same level of meaning, I doubt it arouses equal passion.

But it's inevitable. It's a business. Rich people can afford to pay for the good seats, and that's who you see on TV. Also, I've heard the acoustics of Staples Center affects how the noise is perceived, although that still doesn't address how Staples at times DOES seem to be rocking.

The Lakers need to do away with the stupid tacos. I mean, at best it trivializes the game, at worst, it's distracts the players from doing their jobs. We should involve them in a more meaningful way.

I've said this before, but I think the best thing to ensure a more raucous crowd is to program the florescent lighting to reflect the decibel level of the crowd. It would make for a more dramatic setting as well.

Yes you are over generalizing. You cannot state that there is a high correlation unless you actually have the numbers.

[miggs]

At the risk of over-generalizing, I believe the most avid fans are generally those without money or otherwise struggling through some difficulty in life. I find there is a high correlation between economic status and interest in sports teams.

I am sure there are wealthy people who are crazy Laker fans. But on the whole, I think people tend to project onto sports their own subconscious desires for success and victory. Thus the attachment to the "hometown" team. You identify with that team, and the reason you want it to succeed is that you want to vicariously participate in the team's success.

Poor or otherwise struggling people tend to have a deeper need for success in their own lives.

The wealthy may find enjoyment in sports, but I doubt it has the same level of meaning, I doubt it arouses equal passion.

But it's inevitable. It's a business. Rich people can afford to pay for the good seats, and that's who you see on TV. Also, I've heard the acoustics of Staples Center affects how the noise is perceived, although that still doesn't address how Staples at times DOES seem to be rocking.

The Lakers need to do away with the stupid tacos. I mean, at best it trivializes the game, at worst, it's distracts the players from doing their jobs. We should involve them in a more meaningful way.

I've said this before, but I think the best thing to ensure a more raucous crowd is to program the florescent lighting to reflect the decibel level of the crowd. It would make for a more dramatic setting as well.

Miles, i agree that you are overgeneralizing however, you're on the right track. I remember as a kid, we had no money to go to games or buy laker jerseys but my dad and I would scream our lungs out in the apartment we lived in while my mom watched her soap opera in the other room, you know hispanic moms and novelas lol and no one else in the apartment complex cared how loud we were cuz we were all fans, we all had our lives in the Lakers! There was a point in our lives where the Laker wins were the only good thing happening for me, my dad and mom but that was years ago tho, about 10 years ago, now i find myself in a much better financial environment, where we can afford tickets, jerseys and i live a pretty far above average life tho i'm not rich, just a bit more than stable

As I watch games now, i see how losses affect me in comparison to some friends (with money) i have who claim to be "hardcore fans" but don't seem as down as I do when they got beat in game 6 against Boston. Does that mean they're not as big as fans as i am? No, i don't believe so, i think the loss just affects me more, considering that to me... the Lakers have been a few things in my life:

1) Quality time with my dad
2) My favorite basketball team because of guys like Magic, Kareem, Baylor, West, man i love ESPN Classic!
3) That part of me that feels victorious and on top of the world when the Lakers are victorious.

You see, those rich friends of mine say things like, "Yea man tough game, I thought they had it." Keyword is "they" fans like me say things like, "Yea man, what a heartbreak! I thought we were gonna win that one." Seems like two simple statements but they say so much as to how much a Laker victory can do for me as opposed to my friends. The Lakers getting this far considering that many believed they'd be beat again in the 1st round or possibly make it to round 2 if another player had a break out year, was amazing! we lost in the finals but man, at least we got there!

I felt proud of my team and honored that i lived in LA to share the moment with all of you on here, it helps reinforce that even though those who know can tell you that you don't have a shot, you only go as far as you allow yourself! That's what the Lakers do for me, if that sounds pathetic to some of you then perhaps you don't understand my perspective, which is obviously ok. But to me, Laker victories provide hope, happiness and an appreciation for being able to watch such an amazing team. That's how i feel, that's my team, my hope and my perpetual struggle for greatness.

I bleed purple and gold lol I love my Lakers.

[milesfides]

I'm the same way.

Anyways, I think there's a correlation, that's all. I doubt the existence of a survey comparing income and devotion to a sports team, as if anybody would fund such a thing. But based on personal experience and observation, I generally see the correlation as valid. People who are most fanatic about sports are generally people who need success in their personal lives.

I don't want to stereotype, since certainly there are wealthy yet devoted fans. But I think it's a possibility that much of their passion was forged in more difficult times in their youth, which carries over for the rest of their lives.

Like Mark Cuban, who's insanely wealthy but intensely passionate, the guy apparently had a fairly rough early life. A self-made man, who had to work his ass off to overcome obstacles and obtain his dreams. Whenever I see him and his passion for his team, I have no doubt he relives each success and failure of his life in ever victory and loss of the Mavericks.

[Kreuk]

it's the acoustics in staples center. the forum used to get CRAZY loud, mainly because you had a good amount of people in a smaller space. also the distance from the good seats to the nosebleeds wasnt as extreme in the forum as it is in staples.

even mediocre seats in staples are a nice chunk of change and i dont think the people who are paying all that money are the type to go bonkers when we go on a run or something.

but overall, LA is one of the most apathetic sport markets, except for USC football... hardly anyone went to the raiders or rams games... the dodger games have tons of seats left as well as the angels on a consistent basis... dont get me started on the kings or clippers

there is just too much to do in LA... and laker games are one of those things to do... many companies own season seats and just let random people go... people who may not even be fans... but the fact that celebrities are there brings people out.. even people who prob dont care that much about bball...

you take a market like utah whose fans go crazy.. what else is there to do in utah? i mean, honestly... look at how college football fans go crazy in the midwest... like 60,000+ people pack those stadiums...

its not so much about the lakers, but more about the image the lakers project... and most people are just there to be entertained by that image...

[GuyverX]

You haven't seen a quiet crowd until you go to Staples for a Clippers game. There's a reason why one guy can always be heard going "Let's go Clippers, let's go!" I doubt he would have as much success at the Energy Solutions Arena.

There are a lot of valid points made above....I'm going to agree with milesfides. Overgeneralizing or not, I think the loudest, craziest fans probably aren't those that buy the $300-1,000 dollar seats. Socioeconomic status likely does play a huge role and seeing as how decent seats at a Lakers game is pretty darn pricey, I'd buy into the theory. This would be a great paper for a sociology class. There's also a lot to do in Southern California. I've never been to Salt Lake City, but I doubt they have as many attractions as L.A. I think the Jazz are big part of entertainment in Utah while NBA basketball is just one of many options in So. Cal.

Then, as Kobot said, acoustics plays a huge part too. It takes a lot more effort and people to make Staples center sound louder than say....Arco Arena. Smaller venues are going to be louder because of the physical structure and acoustics. There are many times where I'm sitting at a Clips game and I do see a lot of people but it just sound dead even when fans are chanting.

I don't think it's just one reason.

[milesfides]

I think acoustics plays a part - but there are times when Staples seems ROCKING. When we're making a run, doing good stuff, diving for loose balls, the crowd gets into it. There's a big difference, imho.

As a current outsider who hasn't been to Staples during the playoffs, it seems the crowd 'rewards' players when they do good things. Otherwise, they're pretty laid back.

In some other arenas, it's CONSTANTLY loud. I mean, people are standing up the entire time, waving white towels, screaming, going crazy. When good things happen, they go ballistic.

When that "Deeey--oo" guy has to do his thing to get the crowd involved, that's kind of disappointing to see on TV. The fact you can hear this guy, and hear people follow his "Deeey-oo," tells me the acoustics are fine. It's very articulate. In certain arenas, you can't hear anything distinctly, because everybody is screaming and going crazy.

Again, I've seen Staples go crazy. Just not all the time.

[Tesla]

1. Acoustics play a big part, I've been to several Laker games, and a few different arenas, and Staples somewhat absorbs the noise because its made not to echo (for concerts and such).

2. Ticket prices - The average fan isn't going to fork over the average 100-400$+ range for a playoff ticket, and then during the regular season the ticket prices are still fairly high. The upper section and 200 sections are priced okay, but the rest of the arena is either rich people, or 1 time stop ins.

3. The average Laker attender is not a real crazy loud fan. People are poised, sit in their seats and like enjoying the game. There are some that are also just there to be "at a Laker game" and they are talking on their cell phones, etc --- very annoying.

4. Lights out. It does somewhat take the crowd out, I liked the idea at first, but I like to see when the crowd is going nuts on TV, and I think its better homecourt advantage.

Miles is right that Staples can be rocking at times, especially if you are there in person. I was at the MVP presentation game 2 vs Utah, and during the MVP presentation and certain times it was rocking in person, after I watched it on TV it wasn't really that loud. Personally I think its mostly the arena + ticket prices, but a few little things play along with it also.

So, lets basically just win like 10 straight championships, solidify the best franchise in all of the world, and buy our own Laker arena, thats built for noise.

[Erik Eleven]

When the Lakers play hard nosed defense and run the fast-break, it's all but quiet in there. This city has a strong basketball culture and they only get really loud when the team puts up max hustle and plays tough d.

I'll say it again,

When the Lakers play tough as nails defense and run the fast-break for a slam dunk and one, Staples Center is loud as hell. Even those who are moderately interested and got some free season ticket seats from a friend, and all the rich people in the expensive seats stand up and scream. This is the entertainment capitol of the world. Quite a few of those rich people worked 12-15 hour days for decades to get where they are. Show some hustle and they'll get drawn into the quest of winning a hard-fought battle. They can easily relate to paying your dues and overcoming seemingly unconquerable adversity. I don't blame them for sitting quiet when Chucky Atkins/Smush played no defense and jacked up threes. You have to put it in context. The Showtime Lakers teams are the gold standard for basketball in this city. Anything less is just not as exciting to them as it might be to people in other cities with no history of winning.

The Staples Center features very well controlled acoustics, which makes it less loud than the Forum or Arco Arena et cetera, but I've been in there when it's loud, really loud. Acoustics play a big role, but personally, I think that'll change once this team starts playing real defense and running the break. It's as if the whole place is waiting for something amazing to happen. The last few years, unrelenting team effort hasn't exactly been the norm — it's been looked upon as brief spurts of amazing, unfortunately. If this team turns up the intensity, the crowd will, too. It'll never get as loud as it did in the Forum, but it'll be loud.

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the sound mix of the broadcasts. KCAL9 and FSN West should buy some more microphones and get that ambience in the mix. While they're at it, fire the lead mixer. Instead, all we hear is Joel Meyers talking about what player played for what team in college, something that doesn't exactly instill much excitement. I don't know if you've noticed but when the regular season games are broadcast on TNT, the Staples Center comes off as pretty loud. That has to do with how they mic and mix the broadcast — exclusively.

I guess it's a combination of everything, including the rich, uninterested crowd, the acoustics and hand-outs of season ticket seats to grandmas and uncles from out of town.

I still think that some showtime ball can change all of this a whole lot. Once this team starts playing showtime ball, people won't give away their season tickets to their assistant's visiting relatives so easily.

[milesfides]

^Hm that's interesting about the sound mixing. That would account for a lot. But there still seemed to be a big difference in the playoffs, assuming the sound mixer/producer did the same settings for each arena...although, how messed up would it be if the producer intentionally dialed down Staples? Damn, the thought of that will keep me awake all night.

You know, I was thinking about it, and even if it weren't the sound - the crowd itself doesn't look all that energized. You guys all touched upon it - talking on cell phones, waving to the camera, rich people sitting demurely in all the courtside seats.

And on second thought, the Black Out...I think it's not only a problem of us not being able to see the crowd, but of the crowd not able to see each other. I think there might be some psychological effect of watching people around you get amped. Energy is infectious. People mimic each other. From Nazi indoctrination ceremonies to Evangelical revival congregations, I think there's a common energy that builds, a positive feedback cycle.

You see people waving around a towel, you wave the towel. Somebody screams, you start screaming. You see some dude getting (Please Use More Appropriate Word), you get (Please Use More Appropriate Word). Let's all get (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

But when the crowd is darkened and the stage is lit up, those are the contextual cues of the theater. You sit down at theaters. You shut up and watch what's on stage.

[snitch55]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhNN920v6ss - you remember this , game 7 against Portland , it was crazy .
And when i watched the games against Boston .... it didn't feel the same .

[The_Whole_Truth]

I sat about 10 rows behind the basket for game four. The crowd was handed the noise makers to help distract free throw shooters but bout 75% of them went unopened because the people around me were either "embarrassed to be seen using them" or "wanted to take them home as souvenirs".

The guy in front of me spent the whole game text messaging someone and the guy beside me spent the whole game trying to tape the game on his cell phone...