the concept of renouncing

[snaquille oatmeal]

first off I don't know anything about it so please enlighten me.

can teams renounce anybody at any time?
is it just a simple make cap room tool?
why hasn't anybody opened a few hundread threads on renouncing Rad and Luke?
what are the consequences of renouncing somebody?

...tell me all about renouncing....

[milesfides]

I think renouncing refers to a team giving up the rights to sign its own free agents so they don't count against the cap.

[snaquille oatmeal]

so it applies only to free agents?

[milesfides]

As far as I know, yeah. The Lakers can't renounce Luke or Radmanovic because they're under contract, but the Lakers can negotiate a buyout if they really wanted to get rid of them.

You can see teams renouncing their own free agents to create cap space to sign players - such as the Clippers when they wanted to land Baron Davis. The Clippers gave up their rights to extend several of their own free agents including Shaun Livingston, so they wouldn't count against the salary cap. I believe the Sixers did the same to create the space for Brand.

Another question is, why should free agents count against the team's salary cap? After all, aren't they free? They're free to sign with any team, but their salary still counts on their last team's payroll UNLESS that team renounces its rights to sign that player.

It closes a cap loophole. If free agent Elton Brand's contract didn't count against the Clippers salary total, the Clippers could steal Josh Smith with a big deal, then extend their own free agent Elton Brand. But that would be circumventing the salary cap, and defeating its purpose.

[Verbal]

I always thought renouncing meant buy-out.

Or in Radman's case - an excuse to void a contract.

Or in the Late-Eddie Griffin's case - an excuse to void a contract due to violation of contract. (drug policy)


I'm in the same boat as you snaq.

[DEEP3CL]

You can only renounce guys that have contracts which have expired therefore forfeiting the rights you once had to them . You can resign them but you must now make them fit under the cap.

[milesfides]

You can only renounce guys that have contracts which have expired therefore forfeiting the rights you once had to them . You can resign them but you must now make them fit under the cap.

Bold mine. I'm not sure about that DEEP3CL. You can still exceed the cap to extend your own free agents (via the various Bird and rookie exceptions).

Free agents have a calculated "free agent amount" that counts against their last team's payroll, even before they sign any new contract. This free agent amount depends on previous contract or in the case of rookies, draft position.

This is all in Larry Coon's indispensable salary cap FAQ guide.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#30

[DEEP3CL]

Trust me miles you have to make them fit under the cap once you renounce the rights you once held. I've read Coon's stuff up and down. Bird Rights and everything is out the window. Clips face same situation with Shaun if they choose to resign him.

[magicfan4life05]

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

33. What does renouncing a player mean?

As detailed in question number 30, free agents continue to be included in team salary. By renouncing a player, a team gives up its right until the following June 30 to use the Larry Bird, Early Bird, or Non-Bird exceptions (see question number 19) to re-sign that player. A renounced player no longer counts toward team salary, so teams use renouncement to gain additional cap room. After renouncing a player, the team is still permitted to re-sign that player, but they must either have enough cap room to fit the salary, or sign the player using the Minimum Salary exception. The exception to this is in the case of an Early Bird free agent who is coming off the second season of his rookie scale contract. Such players, when renounced, are treated as Non-Bird free agents. After renouncing a player, a team can still trade the player in a sign-and-trade agreement (see question number 76).

[DEEP3CL]

By renouncing a player, a team gives up its right until the following June 30 to use the Larry Bird, Early Bird, or Non-Bird exceptions (see question number 19) to re-sign that player. A renounced player no longer counts toward team salary, so teams use renouncement to gain additional cap room. After renouncing a player, the team is still permitted to re-sign that player, but they must either have enough cap room to fit the salary, or sign the player using the Minimum Salary exception.

[milesfides]

Actually I misread/misunderstood your post, I thought you were referring to a team's own free agents in general.

P.S. there's also another exception regarding Early Bird/rookies - you forgot to include Larry Coon's very next sentence my man:

"The exception to this is in the case of an Early Bird free agent who is coming off the second season of his rookie scale contract."

[DEEP3CL]

Actually I misread/misunderstood your post, I thought you were referring to a team's own free agents in general.

P.S. there's also another exception regarding Early Bird/rookies - you forgot to include Larry Coon's very next sentence my man:

"The exception to this is in the case of an Early Bird free agent who is coming off the second season of his rookie scale contract."

I thought that would cover it, it's all good I think we all cleared it up for snaq !

[Dexmor]

It makes a restricted free agent unrestricted i think.

[tkb]

Renouncing is when you waive your bird rights for a player. Say we have Kobe on our team and he has opted out of his contract. He's been here for more than 3 years, so we have full bird rights (can sign him to any extension we want regardless of cap space). Kobe is a free agent, and last year he made 10 million dollars. Those 10 million count towards our cap figure even for next season because of the bird rights even though Kobe is a free agent.

If our team salary last season was right at the salary cap, we could renounce Kobe (which means get rid of his bird rights so we no longer can give him any contract we want) and get 10 million in cap space to use on other free agents (LeBron for instance if he was a free agent).

Before we renounced Kobe, we could offer him a max extension for 6 years. Now we can only offer him a 5 year deal starting at 10 million.

Make sense?

[microfib4thewin]

Shouldn't you need to calculate the actual caphold for a free agent instead of just how much he makes for his previous season? For Kobe, he's a larry bird agent that is making more than the average salary, so he holds 150% * 23 mil which would mean he counts 37 mil against the cap unless he's renounced or signs with another team.

[tkb]

My scenario was just a basic example to show the basics of how renouncing a free agent works and none of the figures I used are actual numbers. I just posted that his salary counts against the cap when he's a free agent if we hold bird rights and that goes away if we renounce him.

[Mamba Venom]

The Lakers could have sued Radmon last season for the snowboarding stunt and got out of the contract