Can Odom shut down Pierce?

[Erik Eleven]

What are your thoughts?

Assuming that Bynum and Gasol stay healthy, Odom should be freed up to guard Pierce in the upcoming season's meetings. Odom's man defense and help defense is under rated, in my opinion. I also think that his perimeter defense is better than his low post defense. Since he's now primarily a three, let's compare his perimeter defense to other threes of the league.

Besides Artest, Butler and LBJ, Odom might be on my NBA short list of SFs that could have a decent shot at locking Pierce down. He's long and athletic enough to make Pierce think twice about shooting the three over him. He's quick enough to stay with him on the drive. He's strong enough to bother him on the block. He's long, quick and persistent enough to keep Pierce from getting easy layups under the basket.

In my opinion, the fact that Bynum will be back doesn't just mean that Bynum will be back. It means that Odom can spend all his energy on locking down perimeter swingmen. Remember when we used to get eliminated by the Suns? Odom was by far our best man defender on Nash, who at the time might have been one of the quicker players of the league. When Odom gets in that low, defensive stance and spreads his wings at the three point line, he looks wide as a barn door. My guess is that we'll see a lot of his opponents jacking up threes, and Odom getting the long rebound from a lot of those shots.

What better defensive alternatives are out there, really? Let's take in account that trading a player means that the player that replaces him has a fairly lengthy adjustment period for the triangle offense as well. Could it be that the best defensive three we could get was already on our roster, just playing another position?

Thoughts on Odom's defense at the three?

[iamworthy]

What are your thoughts?

Assuming that Bynum and Gasol stay healthy, Odom should be freed up to guard Pierce in the upcoming season's meetings. Odom's man defense and help defense is under rated, in my opinion. I also think that his perimeter defense is better than his low post defense. Since he's now primarily a three, let's compare his perimeter defense to other threes of the league.

Besides, Artest, Butler and LBJ, Odom might be on my NBA short list of SFs that could have a decent shot at locking Pierce down. He's long and athletic enough to make Pierce think twice about shooting the three over him. He's quick enough to stay with him on the drive. He's strong enough to bother him on the block. He's long, quick and persistent enough to keep Pierce from getting easy layups under the basket.

In my opinion, the fact that Bynum will be back doesn't just mean that Bynum will be back. It means that Odom can spend all his energy on locking down perimeter swingmen. Remember when we used to get eliminated by the Suns? Odom was by far our best man defender on Nash, who at the time might have been one of the quicker players of the league. When Odom gets in that low, defensive stance and spreads his wings at the three point line, he looks wide as a barn door. My guess is that we'll see a lot of his opponents jacking up threes, and Odom getting the long rebound from a lot of those shots.

What better defensive alternatives are out there, really? Let's take in account that trading a player means that the player that replaces him has a fairly lengthy adjustment period for the triangle offense as well. Could it be that the best defensive three we could get was already on our roster, just playing another position?

Thoughts on Odom's defense at the three?

You make alot of good points. Odom ability to play SF has been questioned for the past month or so because no one thinks he can hit the open 15-18 footer. But we or I havent thought about the defensive end of things. If LO can become a lock down defender then we are in business. Im sure we will have more than enough scoring from KB,DF,PG and AB. This leaves LO the ability to rest on offense and work on defense. Anyone who's every played basketball knows that your coach told you, if your tired rest on offense not ond defense. Hopefully the Lakers realize that the key is defense. Hopefully Phil can pound defense into these guys head, and hopefully they will respond. If LO could somehow defend like Pippen did then we are in business.

[milesfides]

I dunno, but we should have tried Odom on Pierce more in the Finals.

Pierce was obviously the key matchup - since his opponent was largely Radmanovic. Was there any bigger mismatch in the history of the NBA Finals? I can't think of any.

Kobe chasing off Rondo was a good play. That was effective in making Rondo a shooter and screwing up their offense.

Sasha and Fish should stay on Ray Allen. Chase and get a hand in his face.

Gasol should stay on KG. KG doesn't like playing inside anyways.

The only question would be the other big man to match up against Perkins. I think we should have given Turiaf more minutes. 10 minutes a game? I'd rather take my chances with Turiaf against Perkins than Radmanovic against Pierce. Hell, I'd take my chances with Mbenga or Mihm against Perkins than Radamn against Pierce.

We had potentially 18 fouls to give, a lot of big bodies to tire out their frontline, but Phil basically didn't get any mileage whatsoever out of Turiaf, Mbenga, or Mihm.

I don't think Odom would have stopped Pierce, but he sure as hell wouldn't have been the eyesore that Radamn was. Which just might have been enough to change the outcome of the series.

I mean, we played with a pretty significant handicap.

[iamworthy]

No way in hell, Pierce does to LO what he did to Vlade.

[ChocolateThundr]

I think Odom can do a good job. His strength and length on the perimeter and in the paint more than makes up for his lack of lateral quickness. I mean, Paul Pierce IMO is crafty but in no way is a 'quick' SF, like LeBron.

[AceFresh]

Lo>>Vladdy on defense by a lot.

I would prefer to have an artest/ marion instead of LO at the 3 SPOT.

but i think odom would do O.K. on Pierce.

at least much better then vladdy dod

[Gerald3Wallace]

lest just say odom can do a lot better job on Defense than Vla Ra can..(i took out the Ds for a reason)

[Erik Eleven]

It seems that we're all pretty much in agreement so far. If we take into account the adjustment period to be expected for Odom's replacement in a hypothetical trade this summer, maybe it was a very wise move after all to not panic and give him up for questionable return.

iamworthy, Odom said something along these lines in an interview during last season, "Offense is where you rest, the defense is where things are at. That's where you have to spend your energy". So, yeah. I think he'd happily fill that role you're talking about.

The problem we've had has been that Odom has been forced to play down low, due to injuries and lacking ability amongst our other bigs. With a healthy Bynum and a healthy Gasol, Odom "the void-filler" can relax and forget about the low post defense and spend all his focus and energy on perimeter defense, long range rebounding and running the break.

We might be better off than we think, next season. Personally I still maintain the thought that Gasol and Bynum is a match made in heaven, offensively. So, really, Odom can relax on offense and become more of a facilitator again — now with two deadly 7' big men as targets, as opposed to a led-legged Brian Grant and Slava Medvedenko. He doesn't necessarily have to shoot the three so much. Kobe and fisher can do that. All Odom has to do on offense is to facilitate and move off the ball, and maybe an occasional give and go or a cut to the hoop.

The more I think about how the starting line-up will function together, the more optimistic I get. With Odom as a dedicated perimeter swingman defender, we'll be tough to break through. I mean, Kobe and Fisher aren't all that bad defenders. Add Bynum's anchoring play and Gasol's ability to read the game and his good hands to it all, and we're looking at a pretty damn annoying defense to face.

It feels more and more desperate how badly we truly need more experienced depth at PF and less at SF. Where's Kurt Thomas when you need him? Can't we get any decent big somehow for Radmanovic? He had his shot on the big stage and blew chunks. He doesn't have the focus nor the defensive smarts we need if we want to be a true contender.

[Erik Eleven]

Send me any serviceable big, because I really do believe in this Odom at SF plan. I'd rather give Radmanovic's shot attempts to Karl and Sasha anyway. As long as I don't have to see Radman's pathetic mockery of defense in the Finals again. We need more depth at the four spot! Do it, Mitch!

[SashAlex]

Good points, EE !

Lamar is very underrated as a defensive player. He's not among the best, but he's what we need next season, he's gonna be a vital part in what is to be a next year winning machine !

[hermes]

i think odom on pierce would be a very good matchup for us, pierce would still score and that, but it would be a lot harder on him because odom is a better defend, the two big guys in the paint

[Sedale Threatt]

I'd love to be wrong, but I really don't see Odom as having either the quickness or the strength to handle a player like Pierce. His length is nice, and the addition of Bynum to give us to 7-footers will protect him to a certain extent. Those factors notwithstanding, I think Pierce has a rather decisive edge in a purely 1-on-1 matchup -- he's quicker, he's stronger and he's far more aggressive.

I also don't think Odom shoots nearly well enough to give us the spacing that Phil prefers. This can't be understated -- looking at his raw numbers, Lamar is an absolutely horrid perimeter shooter, and has been throughout his career. Hence, I suspect that he's still going to see a considerable amount of time at PF as Jackson mixes/matches him, Gasol and Bynum at the 4 and 5 spots.

In light of how thin we are up front, that's not a bad role for Odom at all -- much better than wasting the majority of his time on the perimeter, I think. That gives all three about 32 minutes a game down low, with plenty more available if Lamar slides over to the 3 for spot matchups. You keep Bynum and Gasol fresh, with the option of feed them more minutes as the game dictates, and have some nice flexibility to exploit certain matchups.

Plus you free up space for our glut of 3s, all of whom do certain things well and can contribute in spots but probably aren't worthy of major roles. I would bet this is the more likely plan than Jackson sticking Odom exclusively at the 3.

[Erik Eleven]

^ That's probably exactly how it will go down. And, I disagree a bit with Phil on this.

No player will shut down Pierce completely. He's just too good. He's strong and quick as a lion. But if we look at who in the league has a shot at actually slowing him down considerably, I'd put Odom as one of the top choices right after Butler, LBJ and Artest.

Offensively, it's not perfect. I know that, But we don't have a problem with offense — we already have more than we need. As far as spacing goes, I'm not sure it'll be as big a problem as people think. All Odom has to do is to move well off the ball and pass it around. Occasionally knocking down an open jumper is something he can do. He's not Mark Madsen. With Gasol and Bynum playing well off the ball as well, I don't see a lack of ball movement being a big problem with Odom at the three.

Defensively, it is a very strong line-up. And that's where we need to improve in order to win championships. I'd like to see Odom, Ariza and Kobe getting the bulk of the minutes at the three. But that can't happen unless we more big-man depth up front.

[Sedale Threatt]

Possibly. But if we are worried about depth up front, why are we talking about Odom primarily as a 3, especially to exploit of a role, defense, in which we've never seen him show much beyond adequate capacity? I can't sign off on this idea of Lamar as any kind of stopper because he doesn't have the ingredients it would require, either physically (quickness) or mentally (tenacity and concentration).

No question he's going to see minutes here. On certain nights, he can be a great matchup for us. But if you play Odom primarily at the 3 over the long haul, all you do is exacerbate his and the team's weaknesses (poor perimeter shooting/lack of quickness and lack of frontcourt depth, respectively) at the expense of his No. 1 strength, defensive rebounding.

Not to mention, again, that the triumvirate of him, Bynum and Odom provides Jackson with an excess of options to explore up front. If you stagger the minutes correctly, you'd never have to play without two of them on the court at the same time -- an extraordinary advantage that no other team in the league has.

Provided Sasha's capable of taking on an even more expanded role -- say, 25-30 minutes a night -- that gives us even more options in terms of playing Kobe at the 3, an infinitely more appealing option than Lamar or any of our other flawed 3s.

You win in sports by playing to your strengths and minimizing your weaknesses. The Lakers can do that by utilizing Lamar at his natural and best position, power forward, as much as possible.

[Erik Eleven]

Look, I'm not saying that Odom isn't a good option at the four. He might be better fitted as a four than he is a three, but he'll still be our best three against Pierce, by far. Kobe can't guard Pierce. He's just not strong nor big enough. Ariza isn't strong enough either. Odom is strong enough and quick enough. Once Odom trusts our interior defense of Bynum and Gasol, I think he'll be able to focus on a lock down assignment.

You have to put your best five players on the floor, and that's Fisher, Kobe, Odom, Gasol and Bynum. That, by default, puts Odom at the three. Our biggest deficiency in last year's finals was the lack of a strong, defensive three. Radman on Pierce was the mismatch that ultimately never gave us a chance to win that series. I, with many others, said so long before we got there. We haven't had an answer for Pierce since Rick Fox and Caron Butler.

My main point with this thread is that we might have that guy now that Odom can be freed up from his low post chores when we want him to be. Last season, that wasn't an option. I also like the mismatches we'd create with a front court of Bynum, Gasol and Odom. How the hell would you react to that as an opposing coach? It makes us the aggressor before the game has even started. You can go small, but Odom is pretty quick, and he can back down smaller SFs like Battier all night long.

I agree that his lack of perimeter shooting plays against us in terms of spacing, and defenses being able to sag and pack the interior to avoid penetration from Kobe etc. But I'll happily take that if it means we have a legit chance at slowing down Pierce, Butler and LBJ — something we haven't had since Butler was a Laker. Again, offense is not our problem. If you score 90 points and hold your opponent to 80, you win the game. We're more than capable of averaging 100 ppg with this roster, even with poor floor spacing of our starting five. I'd much rather see us holding teams to 80 than seeing us scoring 120 ppg.

[Lost Angel]

Odom guarding Pierce means foul trouble.


and if it isn't Odom getting quick fouls, then whoever is helping (Bynum or Gasol) will get in foul trouble.

Odom has a knack for making a stupid play, as talented as he is.

[Sedale Threatt]

I agree that our biggest deficiency last season was a strong, defensive 3. I strongly disagree that Odom is that, or can be that. While he might be a better option than anyone else, that says more about the rest of the candidates than it does him. Other than his length, I'm just not seeing him as anything more than adequate, especially as it pertains to slowing down the likes of Paul Pierce and LeBron James. That simply isn't going to happen.

Lamar is quick compared to other power forwards. But those guys? They'll absolutely devour him, bones and all. I agree that he'd almost certainly fare better than Radmanobitch, but again -- that's not saying much. And let's not forget that Lamar isn't exactly the most tenacious guy who's ever stepped on a basketball court. That's a pretty important quality when it comes to playing D, not to mention the ability to focus, another Odom shortcoming.

It just seems to me that since he's been here we've come into the season, on multiple occassions, hearing about how Lamar was going to see more time at small forward. And inevitably, he always ends up at his natural, and by far the best, position -- the 4. Not because the composition of the team has prevented him from playing elsewhere, but because he lacks the game to do so.

That's not to say that he shouldn't see time at the 3 -- he will, and I expect there will be nights he does well. This team should have plenty of versatility, which is a facet Jackson would be foolish not to exploit. I agree with you in that sense. But over the long haul of an 82-game schedule, Lamar just isn't suited for heavy perimeter duty. Keep him at the 4 as much as you can, and you not only play to his strengths but you help shore up our lack of depth up front. Win-win.

[BitonKOBE]

watching odom guard pierce, or any of the handful of SFs of pierce's caliber, would be excruciating.

[BitonKOBE]

LO may be better at guarding pierce than vladrad, but i think that there are many more SFs better suited than LO besides butler, lbj, and artest. shawn marion, battier, even tayshaun prince come to mind. i would probably pick half the starting SFs in the league to guard pierce better than LO.

[Erik Eleven]

Odom guarding Pierce means foul trouble.


and if it isn't Odom getting quick fouls, then whoever is helping (Bynum or Gasol) will get in foul trouble.

Even more reason to trade Radman for a serviceable PF, then.