Lamar Offers To Come off Bench

[B-Scott]

Ariza's defense is so overated. Everytime i see him defend a quality offensive player they blow by him with ease. In the game against Boston in december Pierce was by him with his 1st step without a problem. There was no resistants.

I guess if you got hops with dunking skills, and occassionaly get some cheap steals because you cheated then that means you are a very good defender. His 1 on 1 defense is not very good.

As for the Gionobli vs Lamar comparison. We can break down PER all we want, but if you replace Manu with Lamar the Spurs still win 3 titles in this era. Not counting the one without Manu in 1999.

Duncan/ Lamar would destroy teams on the boards. Especially if Lamar played with Duncan of a couple of years ago. And they Spurs last season actually would have been better with Lamar over Manu. Lets break down had the Lakers and Spurs played if you made the switch

Lakers

C Gasol
PF Rad - Lamar is a Spur
SF Kobe
SG Manu
PF Fisher

Spurs

C Duncan
PF Lamar
SF Bowen
SG Finley
PF Parker

Spurs would have destroyed us on the boards. Im sure pop would most likely start Duncan at center because Gasol is not a true center.

[LLcoleJ]

oh its the add Lamar to team X and they destroy schtick....


its been a while

[Slava]

at Manu and LO switching teams. Imagine LO taking the clutch shots that Manu normally does for the Spurs.... LO driving right....umm no..left as he does a million times, into the lane and offensive foul! Hilarious stuff.

Also Kobe and Manu would drop 80 on that Spurs back court anyday.

[Kobay]

Finally, Odom will get a chance to play like an all star against opponents bench players we've never heard before.

[TyCobb]

Somebody wants an extension from the Lakers...but this shows what kind of team player he is--sign him.

[Sofa King]

Somebody wants an extension from the Lakers...but this shows what kind of team player he is--sign him.

Just the reason for Mitch to sign him for less.

"But Lamar, you're a bench player. Only starters deserve the cheddar baby!" ~Mitch

[reincarnatingDABULLS]

Finally, Odom will get a chance to play like an all star against opponents bench players we've never heard before.

thus pushing our leads even further, and taking our opponents out of the game b4 the end of the 1st half


gasol or bynum
odom
ariza
sasha
farmar


will destroy every bench in the league, and can contend against many starting lineups


hopefully we go with this

[reincarnatingDABULLS]

:rofl: at Manu and LO switching teams. Imagine LO taking the clutch shots that Manu normally does for the Spurs.... LO driving right....umm no..left as he does a million times, into the lane and offensive foul! Hilarious stuff.

Also Kobe and Manu would drop 45 - 70 on that Spurs back court anyday.

fixed

[TonyMontana]

:rofl: at Manu and LO switching teams. Imagine LO taking the clutch shots that Manu normally does for the Spurs.... LO driving right....umm no..left as he does a million times, into the lane and offensive foul! Hilarious stuff.

Also Kobe and Manu would drop 80on that Spurs back court anyday.

fixed

No need to fix, he was right the first time.

[Kilroy]

Odom as Point Forward...

Bynum
Gasol
Kobe
Odom
Sasha

I think this is the more likely scenario...
Sasha can make up for any shooting we lose with Odom playing outside, Kobe can create and gaurd their best perimeter player and Sasha can help, and Odom can distribute or penetrate and dish to Gasol or Bynum.

We won't have guys dominating inside with Bynum and Pau in the key and Sasha and Kobe can gaurd most Gaurds not named Parker or Paul. That's what we have Fish and Farm for...

I think some games Fish will replace Sasha or maybe Sasha will replace fish... But I think Sasha getting hot early and draining 3s might be pretty deadly.

There may be games when he comes off the bench too but I just think they really want to try the Point-Forward thing first. It's been talked about the most...

[kno]

Ive said this whole offseason that I see Odom playing more PF than SF this season, even with Bynum back.

This is the first step towards that IMO.

[Erik Eleven]

As for the Gionobli vs Lamar comparison. We can break down PER all we want, but if you replace Manu with Lamar the Spurs still win 3 titles in this era. Not counting the one without Manu in 1999.

Just as a personal note from a mod to a poster, this is where you lose everyone, B-Scott.

You can't just tell people to disregard statistical records and their own judgment altogether, and instead expect them to trust a biased and home made opinion as a matter of fact — as the unequivocal truth. This is your personal, wild guess at what could have happened in a very unlikely hypothetical scenario, not a fact. Yet you state it as a fact. To make a point, I could easily make the comparable, ridiculous claim that Odom would have a career ending injury had he played next to Duncan and even explain why I think that would happen, but I could never state it as a fact. Your claim is not a fact. Don't present it as such. It's speculation, poorly dressed up as the truth. That's what pisses people off. Why claim such a thing in the first place? I'm finally beginning to buy into the idea that you're just here baiting. The alternative explanations are sure running thin.

It's a highly questionable claim that The Spurs would do as well with Lamar as they did with Manu. It's extremely unlikely to be anywhere near the truth. Have you ever watched Manu in the clutch, single handedly willing his team to win at the end of big games, with Duncan and the rest of the world watching in awe?

No wonder you get people worked up by your posts. In a way, your posting sometimes reminds me of a young Kobe's behavior — no matter how many times the whole world and his elders would tell him he's doing something the wrong way, he would still think he knew best — that the world was indeed flat, and that the rest of mankind would one day see the light that he always saw. Good thing he grew up. I'll read your post with a higher degree of scrutiny from now on. The baiting sensor is switched on. Baiting won't be tolerated, period.

Back to topic.

[CX44]

http://www.ocregister.com/sections/lakers-664493/

Lamar has offered to come off the bench and is talking to the Lakers staff about the increased possibilities this would give the Lakers offense. He even offered to play two guard, three, or four. The Lakers staff seems to think he would work best as a point forward.

Bench:

Lamar
Farmar
Vujacic
Walton
Powell

So much versatility, so much passing ability.

To me, this is why we re-sign Lamar. It's obvious he's not looking for a contract year selfish output, and he's willing to take a statistical fall for the team. In my opinion, he wants to be our Ginobili, and we should commend him for this. Ariza now becomes a defensive stopper and a major energy force in our starting lineup.

Wow Lamar, that is true team play.

Thoughts????

Nice bench but none of those guys can truly creat their own shot ar demand a double team.

[joe.linnen]

Starters
SF:Radmanovic
PF:Gasol
C:Bynum
SG:Bryant
PG:Fisher


Bench mob
SF:Ariza
PF:Odom
C:Powell
SG:Vujacic
PG:Farmar


to finish it off
SF:Bryant
PF:Gasol
C:Bynum
SG:Vujacic
PG:Fisher

[crazyeights]

Nice bench but none of those guys can truly creat their own shot ar demand a double team.

I think Farmar will be creating more this season. His tear drop can be money.

[ballerblogger]

I think this move is in the Lakers AND Lamar's best interests.

From my blog:

Lamar Odom had a solid first half of the 2007-2008 season. But upon Pau Gasol’s arrival in February, Odom ushered in three consecutive months (February, March, April) where he averaged ten plus points and rebounds while shooting over 50% from the field. The Gasol acquisition essentially bumped Odom from the second option to third — a role Odom is better suited for.

With a fully rehabilitated Andrew Bynum penciled in as the Lakers starting center next season, coach Phil Jackson has two options:

1. Move Odom from power forward to small forward and start him alongside Gasol and Bynum in the Lakers frontcourt
2. Bring Odom off the bench

I don’t think Odom is the answer at small forward. Odom lacks the lateral quickness required to defend opposing small forwards and many of his strengths (penetration, low-post scoring) will be null and void with the return of a healthy Andrew Bynum. The majority of the Lakers post-up opportunities will go to Gasol and Bynum and the lane will be occupied by those two.

With two seven footers in the lineup, the Lakers starting unit is going to become increasingly half-court centric. And as such, they will need a small forward that can stretch the defense with long-distance shooting. Odom possesses an accurate mid-range jumpshot, but is a career 31% three-point shooter.

As the Lakers sixth man, Odom could spell either Gasol or Bynum in the Lakers frontcourt while moonlighting at small forward from time to time. Odom’s point forward skills and ability to finish on the break could also be beneficial to the Lakers second unit, which was an uptempo squad for much of last season.

Of course, this is dependent upon Jackson’s desire to bring Odom off the bench and Odom being amenable to a “diminished” role. But it could also go a long ways towards determining Odom’s future with the Lakers. Odom is the final year of a contract that will pay him $14,148,596 next season. If the Lakers decide to extend Odom’s contract, it will be at a considerable discount. And one way to convince Odom to accept a paycut while underscoring his value would be to give him an opportunity to win one of the league’s most underrated individual awards: Sixth Man of the Year.

After capturing the Western Conference’s number one seed and advancing to the NBA Finals without their starting center, the Lakers are the odds on favorite to win the championship in 2009. The league’s Sixth Man of the Year award has a long history of being awarded to the first reserve on one of the NBA’s top teams. Manu Ginobili won the award last season after he averaged a Spurs team-high 19.6 points per game coming off the bench. Leandro Barbosa won the award in 2006-2007. Both Barboasa and Ginobili ended up averaging starter-like minutes, but gave their teams an advantage coming off the bench.

Toni Kukoc won the award in 1996 as the first man off the bench for the 72-10 Chicago Bulls. Dennis Rodman was the runner-up to the award in 1989. And Kevin McHale — one of the greatest power forwards of all-time — won the Sixth Man of the Year award in 1984 and 1985. The Celtics won the championship in ‘84 and advanced to the NBA Finals in ‘85. Bill Walton captured the award in Boston’s ‘86 championship season.

Odom’s versatility and unselfishness would be on full display as the Lakers sixth man.

Coming off the bench carries the stigma of a reduced role. But as the Sixth Man of a championship contender, Odom could have more impact on the Lakers than he ever has.

http://ballerblogger.com/2008/09/02/lamar-odom-off-the-bench/

[milesfides]

I just don't understand the logic of emphasizing all the successful sixth men, or claiming Odom could be sixth man of the year.

So what?

What should be important to us is winning championships. Odom getting sixth man of the year is really irrelevant, just like Kobe getting MVP this season was irrelevant in winning a championship. It was relevant in having a good season, but we already made the Finals last year, and it wasn't enough.

More relevantly, how would Odom coming off the bench help us win against Boston?

Was it really a matter of our bench not giving us enough production in the Finals, where all the rotations were tightened anyways?

Bynum, Gasol, and Kobe will undoubtedly be on the floor...who else with them? Two shooters, among Fish, Farmar, Sasha, and Radamn.

Odom doesn't change the game plan at all, except that Bynum (chronologically) or Gasol (positionally) replaces him. With Bynum returning, we WON'T focus on pushing the ball at all. We'll have to meticulously run our offense and preserve spacing, as both Bynum and Gasol on the floor will force defenses to suck it in and challenge our guards to shoot. I expect an emphasis on execution, and a demand for our role players to be consistent in their shooting and play defense.

How does Odom fit into that? A shooter? A defensive specialist? A point-forward off the bench when our team will most likely increase focus on halfcourt execution?

And where we fell short this year - we can't run a bench mob in the Finals - all our rotations will be tightened. Odom will be on the floor because he's improved his shooting, or we'll suffer. Or, Odom will be on the bench, and his contributions will be marginal. Or Odom will be traded.

If we are to beat Boston for the championship, it would have to be through better muscle underneath (Bynum), better defense on Pierce, better defensive rotations, and better perimeter shooting.

I'm not sure how Odom coming off the bench really addresses any of that.

[crazyeights]

I don't know if anyone really believes that Odom coming off the bench equals a championship. I think what's key to all of this, is that Lamar isn't going to throw a tantrum about not starting. People have brought up how they don't see why he'd do this...well think about it. Odom isn't stupid, despite his hair-stars, he sees the writing on the wall.

Everybody knows that despite the curiosity of the Bynum-Gasol-Odom lineup, that there's little feasibility it can hold against great defensive teams. If anything, Lamar knows that a decreased role was in order and therefore by offering to step into a "sixth man" position, it makes him look like a team player. I believe Lamar is willing to do what's for the good of the team, but this also has everything to do with his future. How would it look if he unwillingly was benched? Why not make it look like it was your own idea?

If anything, Miles, yes I agree with your post, it doesn't solve any of our problems (with Boston). But it does ease any potential tensions about PT, along with does enhance our bench. Yes, this wasn't our main-weakness against Boston, but I think what may have been was injuries (losing Bynum/Ariza). Having Lamar come off the bench gives a lot more flexibility to the bench lineup we run, meaning the effect of an injury to a role player would be lessened. There are a lot of positives to Lamar coming off the bench, it just makes more sense for their styles of play, which I think we can all agree on.

Yes, it doesn't solve our SF defensive issues. But it could bring out a new layer to our team, forcing teams to re-think certain strategies. I would also think that the rotation won't be so rigid in the playoffs, because our bench will have matured. Only time will tell, but I think until we see how Phil uses these lineups, it's too early to discount them.

[dockingsched]

I just don't understand the logic of emphasizing all the successful sixth men, or claiming Odom could be sixth man of the year.

So what?

i think, at least for me, its all about arguing against posters that are against the idea in principle, either because he gets paid too much or he's too talented. highly paid (compared to teammates) and talented players have come off the bench before and its led to success. this argument doesn't go against people that are questioning the move as it pertains specifically to lamar and the lakers. like i said, its against people are that are against it just cause he's paid too much or too talented, irregardless of team needs.

[DEEP3CL]

I just don't understand the logic of emphasizing all the successful sixth men, or claiming Odom could be sixth man of the year.

So what?

What should be important to us is winning championships. Odom getting sixth man of the year is really irrelevant, just like Kobe getting MVP this season was irrelevant in winning a championship. It was relevant in having a good season, but we already made the Finals last year, and it wasn't enough.

Agree undoubtedly miles, not arguing at all against the board on the thought of him moving to the bench. But for the first time in 5 years we're going into the season a clear cut contender for the title. Expectations are at normal levels again around here, like Kobe said, " We play for titles here." I could care less if LO wins a Sixth Man Award, I just want to see him wet in some Cristal in June.

To me him even offering to move the bench signals his desire to remain a Laker, he simply doesn't want to be traded again or have to start over in another situation again and I don't blame him. LO will be 29 this November he's reaching his prime years now and I'd rather have him here in those years. Lo realizes that winning a title is the FOCUS and if him making our bench better is one of the answers then good for him to sacrifice starting for the team. Phil has a soft spot for LO, knowing him he'll talk LO out of it before he endorse it.