Does anybody think Fisher should be starting?

[Sedale Threatt]

Funny though how Fisher's decision making was poor last night, IMO. He seemed to be a little too aggressive at points taking it to the hole. Fisher driving is probably the lowest percentage shot we have on that starting lineup.

Yes, Farmar's still young and he makes more sense with the second unit...but Fisher needs to recognize his role with that starting unit. He's a spot-up shooter and hard-nosed defender. I don't want to watch him driving to the basket when we could have Gasol/Bynum/Kobe posting up or Vlad in the corner.

There aren't many who force, and miss, more layups than Derek Fisher.

That said, I still love the guy. A pro's pro who has always done this franchise proud with his attitude and effort. No need to screw with his role; he's right where he needs to be.

You hit on one of my few quibbles from last night's game -- I would have liked to have seen us go to Gasol and Bynum more in the post. Put pressure on the defense by forcing them to guard our 7-footers, then play the game inside out.

Heck, throw Kobe down there and let him go to work, too. That was one of the secrets to Jordan's game as he got older. I'd like to see Kobe incorporate more of that, because he's already got a hell of a foundation to build on.

[Dexmor]

Kobe doesn't need to play the post more though with Gasol and Bynum. He doesn't even really need to be more then a closer and play like a star during the game. He could be a 20 5 and 5 guy and that would be enough unless I am overrating Bynum which is possible because last night he blew.

[Dexmor]

Fisher played with Kobe and Shaq and averaged 2 assists per season during those glory years.
I know Fisher is great and I am not anti Fisher but they didn't have a playmaking pg which Farmar is and Farmar can get like 6-7 dimes a game with this squad nd the only reason why it's not higher is because of the triangle.
Also speaking of the triangle even the first unit ran alot as opposed to being a slow setup team.

[history2b]

But if there is a balance in the lineup as is it right now, why change it?

[crazyeights]

There aren't many who force, and miss, more layups than Derek Fisher.

That said, I still love the guy. A pro's pro who has always done this franchise proud with his attitude and effort. No need to screw with his role; he's right where he needs to be.

You hit on one of my few quibbles from last night's game -- I would have liked to have seen us go to Gasol and Bynum more in the post. Put pressure on the defense by forcing them to guard our 7-footers, then play the game inside out.

Heck, throw Kobe down there and let him go to work, too. That was one of the secrets to Jordan's game as he got older. I'd like to see Kobe incorporate more of that, because he's already got a hell of a foundation to build on.

yeah I love Fish too. I'm not too worried about it, I think he'll figure it out. Just sort of surprised/yelled at my TV when Fisher was bricking layup after layup. Maybe he feels he has to prove he can play with Farmar? I don't know. Just thought it was unnecessary.

It'll work itself out.

[Sedale Threatt]

No, he's pretty much always done it. A buddy and I have been joking about it for years.

[history2b]

Sedale is right.

Fisher has always been a disaster driving to the basket. His only saving grace is his strength which he uses to bulldoze his way to the rim only he can't finish.

[Patterns]

Fisher played with Kobe and Shaq and averaged 2 assists per season during those glory years.
I know Fisher is great and I am not anti Fisher but they didn't have a playmaking pg which Farmar is and Farmar can get like 6-7 dimes a game with this squad nd the only reason why it's not higher is because of the triangle.
Also speaking of the triangle even the first unit ran alot as opposed to being a slow setup team.

Why would you need a play maker if the offense is run through Kobe and Shaq?

That's like saying let Smush Parker run the offense and let Kobe and Shaq play off of him.

[microfib4thewin]

Bynum couldn't even finish alley oops or play the game with any patience. Using him to pound on the inside wasn't going to work. Even with Oden out it's not like Pryz is some pushover on defense.

[hermes]

Fisher played with Kobe and Shaq and averaged 2 assists per season during those glory years.
I know Fisher is great and I am not anti Fisher but they didn't have a playmaking pg which Farmar is and Farmar can get like 6-7 dimes a game with this squad nd the only reason why it's not higher is because of the triangle.
Also speaking of the triangle even the first unit ran alot as opposed to being a slow setup team.

Why would you need a play maker if the offense is run through Kobe and Shaq?

That's like saying let Smush Parker run the offense and let Kobe and Shaq play off of him.

that wouldn't be too bad, i hear Smush was a streetball legend

[Dexmor]

I didn't say you need a playmaker with Shaq and Kobe but when you have those guys to pass to and you don't get more then 2 assists a game your not a pg.
On Shaq alleyopps alone you should be able to get a couple assists a game plus the other guys.
I didn't say they should run the offense threw Fisher or Smush or Farmar for that matter. Just that Farmar is a real pg and that can help Bynum.
You don't have to put words in my mouth to try and win an arguement. It only proves my point.

[hermes]

wasn't fisher a young gun finding his way back then?

kind of like Farmar now?

[Patterns]

I didn't say you need a playmaker with Shaq and Kobe but when you have those guys to pass to and you don't get more then 2 assists a game your not a pg.
On Shaq alleyopps alone you should be able to get a couple assists a game plus the other guys.
I didn't say they should run the offense threw Fisher or Smush or Farmar for that matter. Just that Farmar is a real pg and that can help Bynum.
You don't have to put words in my mouth to try and win an arguement. It only proves my point.

We wouldn't have been as good if we had a play making PG instead of a PG who plays hard nose defense, draws charges, and make open 3's.

Racking up assist doesn't mean that you help the team win. Just look at Mo Williams in Milwaukee, A.I. with the Nuggets. If you have superior players at other positions, then as a PG, you're suppose to give the ball to them at their spots and get out of the way.

As a PG in the triangle offense, you're suppose to defend and spread the floor with 3pt shooting. That's about it. That's why you see Phil running more with Farmar out there because he is, like you said, a truer PG.

Why do you want a PG running around and dribbling around the court, around Shaq, around Kobe, and then try to make a pass in the Triangle offense?

I mean, sure, if you have someone like Chris Paul, let him run the offense but this is Farmar we're talking about and he's not even close to the level of CP3.

Doesn't make sense.

We wouldn't have been better with Farmar than with Fisher back then.

Farmar's game isn't what the starting lineup needs. He'll just frustrate the hell out of Kobe or Kobe will make him almost useless because Kobe does the play making on this team. Either that he'll pass it to Pau down low and run the offense off of him. Farmar has no place in the starting lineup.

[Patterns]

wasn't fisher a young gun finding his way back then?

kind of like Farmar now?

No. Fisher was 25-28 during the 3 peat. He was already a leader, a veteran, and a great locker room presence.

[Gus McCrae]

Farmar should start because he's on my fantasy team.
And I thought about dropping him for Rudy Fernandez...until I saw this thread.

in reality, Fish should start for all the reasons mentioned, big strong PG who spreads the floor and doesn't make bad decisions. nothign to prove either.

[ClubLakers KB8]

Farmar is best suited to be a spark plug off the bench that can run an up-tempo style. Fisher provides veteran stability for the starters and there's no need to hinder the bench mob style with someone who doesn't excel at running the floor.

Farmar, Sasha, Odom, and Ariza off the bench is DEADLY. Speed, money shooters, elite rebounder, solid perimeter D for the most part.

[crazyeights]

No, he's pretty much always done it. A buddy and I have been joking about it for years.

Oh I know this isn't anything new. That's why I said it's pretty much the lowest percentage shot someone in our first unit could take. I just find it odd that Fish could be so unaware of his own weakness. Maybe he just wanted to overpower Blake and knew that would be open...

I just want Fish to be more steady in that regard.

[Dexmor]

Well I know Kobe doesn't have the pressure he once had but having a guy who can bring the ball up at pg will only help Kobe so if those 2 can play together which I think they can then it will be better.
Last year Fisher's veteran leadership was really really important. This year if you take him out of the starting lineup and put in Farmar you still have veteran leadership with Kobe, Gasol.
Farmar to me seems like he will be at a Tony Parker level soon. He can make plays for guys and play good D and hit 3's.
You guys keep saying play D and hit the 3 like Farmar can't do that. He can.

[Sedale Threatt]

Shouldn't be so hard to figure this out.

Ain't broke. Don't fix.

[Dexmor]

you guys keep saying if it aint broke don't fix it. Coby Karl could have started at pg and they would have won those 2 games. The west is tougher they have only won 2 games and not the championship.
I am not saying this group won't win it all because I am confident in a championship but why not improve if you can?