OT: The Lakers Fan Election Thread

[semi-sentient]

I'm interested in hearing who (and possibly why) some fellow Lakers fan are voting for today (or voted for early). This obviously has nothing to do with basketball and RGM has it's own politics forum, but I'd like this to be isolated to Lakers fans views, particularly since this is going to be most historic election of our lives (or at least up to this point of our lives). I should point out that the intent of this thread is not to spark debate on who is right or wrong, so I'd ask that folks responding not criticize others for their views as that can get ugly in a hurry.

...

As for me, I voted for Obama last week and Libertarian across the board for all other candidates. This is the first time that I've voted for either a Democrat or a Republican, but I felt it was important that my vote went for Obama in terms of impacting the popular vote as he obviously will not win the Texas electorate.

My primary reasons for voting for him over McCain/Palin are as follows:

1) Foreign Policy -- Being an ex-military veteran and current holder of a TS/SCI clearance, I feel that Obama will be more responsible with not only our military, but also in the handling of foreign affairs in terms of re-establishing our standing in the world. While McCain has more experience, I do not trust his judgment and erratic behavior, military "hero" or not. One thing that I particularly loved about Clinton was his ability to speak with leaders of other nations without being condescending, unlike Bush and certainly unlike I suspect McCain would do. This is a vital issue to me and in the grand scheme of things it's important to elect a leader who is intelligent, thoughtful, and can deliver a message without completely offending the rest of the world and damaging our standing among fellow Earthlings.

2) Energy -- His energy plan is far superior and I believe he is more likely to actually implement that plan to get us not only off of foreign oil, but to lead us towards a dramatic decline in fossil-fuel usage altogether. This is an issue that has been talked about for many years, but at the end of the day it's been nothing but lip service, particularly from the Bush administration who in his first State of the Union address had my interest peaked with his false hope of exploring hydrogen power. Naturally, deploying a solid energy plan has several side benefits such as helping with global warming (regardless of the true impact of human output), declining levels of pollution in our major cities, and particularly with creating new high tech jobs.

3) Economy/Taxes -- To put it bluntly, I do not believe in trickle-down economics or deregulation, and history shows that it doesn't quite work. Wealth re-distribution is necessary for our economy to function properly and I'm particularly displeased with the lack of judgment from the upper 5% which have exploited the rest even though they have been rewarded by Bush in the form of huge tax cuts. It's time to turn the tide and give relief to those who actually deserve it, while taking away those tax cuts from the rich which have clearly not trickled-down. Personally, I'll be receiving decent tax break from Obama's plan, but more importantly, people such as my mother and sister who do not make nearly as much as I do will be the true beneficiaries. In fact, I'd gladly pay higher taxes to help the less fortunate as I live comfortably enough to afford it, and quite frankly, it's time to narrow the gap between the rich and the poor for the good of all. Some may call this Socialism or Marxism (and wrongly so), but if that is the case then they might as well say that we've been that way since the progressive tax system was put into place in the late 1800's.

4) Health Care -- While this is not a big issue for me personally as I'm insured and pay next to nothing (except for those ridiculous prescription prices), I believe every human should be provided for in this respect, rich or poor. It's a travesty that so many people can't afford health insurance while we spend billions of dollars helping out the rich (see the recent bailout as an example). Certainly this is a difficult thing to address, but my feeling is that Obama can help in this regard if he is smart about cutting wasteful spending, which there is a lot of. I believe he is going about this the right way by not completely socializing medicine, which allows those who can afford to still have their choice of insurance.

5) Joe Biden -- Obama chose a Vice President who is more than capable of taking over in his absence and brings far more to the table than his opponents pick. I feel that Biden compliments Obama quite well, whereas Palin does not compliment McCain at all. This also shows a lack of judgment on McCain's part and that is something which quickly turned me off to McCain since his selection of VP.

So that's it for me.

[hermes]

haven't voted yet, but i am probably going to vote for Ron Paul because i like him

between the two main party candidates i would prefer Obama, because i think he could do a better job than McCain

not hung up too much on policies because do politicians really do what they say their going to? they'll tell you what you want to hear to get elected then do what they want

although with a democratic house and Senate combined with the possibility of a democratic president could be a cause for concern, because everything would be voted on through


and as for the other positions i'll probably go with the incumbents (Harkin, Latham) because they've been doing a good job, and i met Latham couple years ago in DC and he's a nice guy

[kno]

wow. For a split-second there I slightly misread "Election" in the title and got my trigger-happy mod finger to twitch.


edit: But to add something related to the topic...

Im Vot'n foh Palin!

In reality, imma let a fellow posted talk for me..

so glad the election's almost done because i'm sick of politics.

[Slava]

^^

[TonyMontana]

I already voted for Obama.
WE WILL WITNESS HISTROY TONIGHT.

[Mos Def]

Barack's playing ball on election day! how can you not vote for him..

[dockingsched]

barack the vote

[Chubby Chaser]

Yes on 8

Yes on 5

[LLcoleJ]

what semi-sentiment said. I'm actually here right now!

[SALMIEN]

Obama is my dream president I already voted for him, we will celebarate tonight ( in shaa
allah)

[Sedale Threatt]

Obama.

In addition to what SS already touched on -- I respect that you kept your vote issue-oriented, which is virtually impossible to do -- I just couldn't bring myself to vote Republican after the debacle that was George W. Bush. Just couldn't do it. It's like getting a crappy meal at the same restaurant twice in a row -- why would I go back? Maybe if they clean out all the fundamentalist Christian cultists who have highjacked their party, I'd consider it in the future.

But not now, and especially not if a light-weight, anti-intellectual like Sarah Palin gets the nod in four years. I would rather live in Haiti than a country in which she would be our leader. I was probably always going to vote for Obama anyway, but that choice sealed the deal for me after I got a handle on what she was about. I loath that woman with every fiber of my being. Plus, I have to say that as much as I used to admire and respect McCain (and still do, to a degree) he just came off as a grouchy, erratic old man to me.

I don't know -- I'm too much of a cynic to think that Party A is going to be that much of an improvement over Party B. My biggest issue, by far, is balancing our budget and chewing at least a fraction off our spiralling national debt, and I don't think either candidate can/will do that.

But if our ship is sinking, I at least feel comfortable letting a new captain take the helm. Maybe we catch lightning in a bottle. Here's hoping, because we need it badly.

[Erik Eleven]

First of all, let's get one thing straight — all politicians are full of sh•t! You can't get to a position of power within politics unless you are corrupt.

Having said that, I'd vote Obama, but I'm not a citizen, so I can't vote yet. Next time I'll be able to and you can count on me being there early, with bells and whistles.

Good post, s-s. I agree with a lot of that.

My take on voting is that one should vote for the candidate one believes would have the most positive impact on the biggest amount of citizens. Voting for what's best for yourself isn't necessarily what's best for yourself in the long run. Without strong lower-to-mid-income buying power, the wall street bubble can apparently burst. You see the evolvement of a country by looking at their poorest. Shining beacon on a hill, my ass. People around the world are still dumbfound and laughing at us about electing Bush, let alone re-electing the challenged little puppet troll.

If I could vote, let's see, Lord Locksley versus Robin Hood. The disadvantaged versus the already rich war profiteers. Peace plans for the middle east versus more no-bid contracts for Cheney's companies. A young, inspiring leader who could befriend the rest of the world versus a half senile old man who would alienate them. Someone who cares about the environment versus someone who cares about the establishment. Hmm, tough one... To me, this might be the biggest no-brainer of all time.

What kicks me the most are the people who are dumb enough to buy into McCain's fear talks of raised taxes by Obama. It will only be a hard hit for a very select few of McCain's very richest supporters. When McCain talks about Obama's taxes, they all scream 'booooh' at his rallies. If they just kept their brains on track for just one more second, wouldn't they realize that they almost pay similar percentages to unregulated credit card companies as they do in taxes? Why is it OK to get ass-raped by Saudi owned, Bush-family-friendly credit card companies and banks, while taxes are talked about as some kind of plague that will instantly turn this country into former Soviet Union? Regulate the Lord Locksleys and their modern fine print e-pillaging of the little man and, yes, tax the filthy rich a little bit more and we'll be on the right track. We need an end to Wall Street doing whatever the hell they want to do. We can't have politicians in charge who are not willing to regulate these moral degenerates.

Taxes are intended to go back to us, the people. When it works right, paying taxes is a great thing. I grew up in a country where my taxes paid for a great education, great medicare, great dental care, great vision care, great private music lessons in school, great sports training in school, great arts programs in school, good food in school, top notch TV broadcasting, radio channels and much more, like great roads, great local subsidized transportation — busses, trams and boat shuttles in the archipelago. All of it for free, paid by the people, for the people. It was a beautiful thing. Unifying yet individualistic, and very far from being even close to a socialistic society, as that term is defined in this culture.

I'm also so enormously sick of arrogant old right wing politicians talking down to me with their stupid rhetoric as if I didn't have a brain and eyes to see through their lame song and dance. I've had it. Give me a real, smart person with a high dose of common sense and I'll back him all the way. One of us. The new generation is mature enough to take over. Personally, I think we need a new leader that knows the troubles of our generation, someone who at least has an idea of what it might be like outside the world of the old fart politicians in Washington.

Another thing I don't get are the catholic latin americans in this country that vote republican just because of the abortion topic. It says in the bible that you shalt not kill, yes. It also says in the bible that, when 15 years old and drunk as a skunk and high, you should pull down your pants and get knocked up, right? Why get hung up on that one thing, when the rest of the policies go straight against what most of your relatives and friends need? The only way the republican party's politicians cater to the general population of Mexicans is when they pay them under the table for gardening and house keeping services. This is why we need a better educational system in schools, so that the next generations can be a little more informed on all these things than our current one is.

I'm rambling. Too lazy to go through all the different topics. Robin Hood for me!

Regardless of what you vote, vote!

[Sedale Threatt]

SS,

Of all the points you made in your outstanding post, I really liked what you said about energy. You couldn't be any more correct, in my opinion. There are just so many positives to aggressively pursuing this avenue -- it's win-win-win. If anything can pull us out of this economic quagmire that we're in, and perhaps transforming our economy from one based on consumption to one based on producing actual commodities, this is it. This is the one thing I heard during the debates that truly got me excited. Obama seems to get it, now we'll just have to see if he follows through (if elected, of course.)

I also agree with the economic points. While I have concerns that these potential tax hikes might actually hurt in terms of cutting jobs, the bottom line to me is clear -- something different has to be done. We're coming off a period in which 1% of the population accumulated almost 75% of the generated wealth, while 90% was left to fend for itself on about 5%. The elite has been making more and more money, and they haven't used it to re-invest in their industries in terms of jobs and growth. They're just lining their own pockets. If we continue on that path, the middle class that has been the backbone of our country simply isn't going to survive.

The conservative alarm being sounded about Obama's tax plan sounds a lot like the whinging that went on when the minimum wage was raised a few years back -- less corporate profit means more job cuts. And as far as I know, the impending disaster did not unfold.

And I'd also add -- each and every American needs to take a hard look at the lifestyle they live and make necessary adjustments. We're coming off the first year since the Great Depression that the average American spent more money than they made. Continuing down that path, by not saving money and racking up ridiculous credit card debts to fund lifestyles we ultimately can't afford, is yet another disaster waiting to happen. Before we exect the politicians and the government to save us, we need to look in the mirror and save ourselves first.

[Sedale Threatt]

Good stuff, E. I agree with everything you've said. All you can do is vote for the best candidate they give you. For a lot of years my cynycism kept me on the sidelines. No more. We've got an amazing country, and not participating in its maintenance is no longer an option. The big key -- continuing to stay interested AFTER the election, and making the politicians as accountable as you can.

[Erik Eleven]

$700 Billion could pay for a whole lot of solar panels, water turbines and wind towers. It could also pay for employing hundreds of thousands of engineers to run all of it. What did it cost us so far to invade Iraq? Lives and money wisely spent.

[hermes]

i like this energy plan
http://www.pickensplan.com/theplan/

[Sedale Threatt]

I almost don't even want to think about the possibilities if we actually do pursue an alternative energy plan with all the ingenuity and energy and resources Americans can muster. It's too obvious, too potential-laden, that I don't want to get my hopes up.

[Erik Eleven]

The relentless spending in Iraq taught us one good thing; american politicians won't hold back on spending once they decide to do something.

What if they could only decide to be that relentless in spending on something but the Sith Lord's evil plan? What about an unrelenting world wide media campaign to further the world wide understanding of other cultures and ethnicities but their own? What about all the green energy plants the war money could have paid for? How about going all out and unrelentingly investing tax money (war money) on good things instead?

[semi-sentient]

Great posts Sedale and EE. I think we're all pretty much on the same page with our reasoning (and outrage) for wanting change in the White House.

Sedale, I think most people felt the same about McCain coming out of the primaries. Just about every Democrat or Independent (myself included) I know was looking forward to him coming out of the Republican Party knowing full well that Ron Paul didn't stand a chance (thanks in large part to other Republican candidates shamelessly mocking him). Politics can change an individual in a hurry, and I think that's what we've largely seen happen to McCain as he desperately looked for ways to win the people over.

EE, I agree that most, if not all, politicians are completely full of crap, but every now and then comes along a great leader who can make a positive impact on society as a whole. My hope is that Obama is that leader. He's talked a good talk, so now he just needs to walk the walk (I couldn't think of any other cliches). One thing I do know is that his demeanor and ability to effectively communicate is going to inspire change whether he follows through with all of his plans or not. Heck, it already has inspired great change.

[daddyfivestar]

Since I live in California, it doesn't matter who I vote for because Obama will get the CA electoral votes. So I went write in - Phil Jackson (which is ironic because he probably wouldn't have voted yes on 8 like I did).
McCain - no go. We need to stop spending 10 billion day abroad and he will not do it. Speaking of that, yes on 12, bring the troops home and help them buy houses. Saves money and improves the glut of avail housing which eventually brings my home value up.
Obama - no go. Cannot in good faith vote for a guy who lies saying he was on the college hoops team when he was playing dorm intramurals. Deal breaker.