Honestly who is the best talent here?

Post #1 » by **Mr Swagtastic** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:34 am

After talking with a so called know it all of hockey (my dumbass older bro) he has stated that Steve Yzerman is a top 200+ player of all time and guys like Teemu Salene, Eric Lindros, Mats Sundin, Kevin Stevens, Doug Gilmore and even John LeClair are better talents them Yzerman then he goes onto say that Nik Lidstrom is the most overrated player in the history of the league and the worst defensive defenseman of all time and should be lucky he played in the NHL with The Wings.

So my question is to you guys where would you rank these guys? Not going by potential i.e. a healthy Lindros going by what they did in the NHL. Would make this a player comparison topic but that board is dead

I see them as this

1) Steve Yzerman - Look at the numbers hard to go against him I would put him here alone for his leadership

2) Nik Lidstrom

3) Mats Sundin

4) Teemu Salene

5) Doug Gilmore

6) Eric Lindros

7) John LeCliar

8 Kevin Stevens

Post #2 » by **Nolan** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:01 am

I can't really agrue with your list, but i'd put Lindros ahead of Gilmour if we're talking strictly about talent alone.

And as far as Lidstrom goes he's one of best and most talented d-man to ever play the game.

Post #3 » by **ajaX82** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:08 am

List looks fine but I would swap Steve and Nick. Yzerman was a helluva player and leader, but Nick is a top-3 defensemen all time.

I think your bro is trolling you btw

Bank Shot · Post #4 » by **Bank Shot** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:09 am

Lindros above Gilmour for sure.

I'd take Yzerman over Lindstrom. Its close though. Yzerman did win the Lester B. Person award over prime Gretzky and prime Mario. Obviously he wasn't as good as those guys but that shows the the type of talent the guy had. He has the highest scoring season ever by a guy not named Wayne or Mario. Lindstrom was more consistent over his career but I'd still take Steve.

Strange guys to call overrated though. Both of them have close to flawless resumes.

Dr Positivity · Post #5 » by **Dr Positivity** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:45 am

In pure talent, Lindros is a tier above all those guys and probably has an argument against everyone except Gretzky, Lemieux and Orr all time. Career I'd go 1. Yzerman, 2. Lidstrom 3. Sundin 4. Selanne 5. Lindros 6. Gilmore 7. Leclair 8. Stevens

Post #6 » by **OldNo7** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:34 am

So I'm the only one who would put Selanne over Sundin? Frankly playoffs matter, and Selanne won a Cup. He had a couple of really poor seasons but at the top of their games, I would take Selanne anyday.

sh00n · Post #7 » by **sh00n** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:42 pm

OldNo7 wrote:So I'm the only one who would put Selanne over Sundin? Frankly playoffs matter, and Selanne won a Cup. He had a couple of really poor seasons but at the top of their games, I would take Selanne anyday.

I'd put Selanne top 3 on this list, easily. The fact that he's still doing it today is what puts him over the top for me.

UN-Owen · Post #8 » by **UN-Owen** » Mon Jan 2, 2012 5:15 pm

OldNo7 wrote:So I'm the only one who would put Selanne over Sundin? Frankly playoffs matter, and Selanne won a Cup. He had a couple of really poor seasons but at the top of their games, I would take Selanne anyday.

The Stanley Cup is a team accomplishment and has no place in a discussion about the talent level of individual players

Post #9 » by **Mr Swagtastic** » Tue Jan 3, 2012 6:34 pm

UN-Owen wrote:
OldNo7 wrote:So I'm the only one who would put Selanne over Sundin? Frankly playoffs matter, and Selanne won a Cup. He had a couple of really poor seasons but at the top of their games, I would take Selanne anyday.

The Stanley Cup is a team accomplishment and has no place in a discussion about the talent level of individual players

Yes and no, a guy like Lemieux, Gretzky, Crosby, Yzerman or somebody like that can carry a team. Problem is you could be the best offensive talent but if your goalie sucks and can't save anything *cough Loungo* then it's all for not.

I think the more I look at it I am agreeing with OldNo7 and like Salenne over Sundin the guy is a goal scoring machine. Sundin might get some nods only cause he made the 2000 era Leafs look less bad then they were

UN-Owen · Post #10 » by **UN-Owen** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 6:46 am

Mr Swagtastic wrote:
UN-Owen wrote:
OldNo7 wrote:So I'm the only one who would put Selanne over Sundin? Frankly playoffs matter, and Selanne won a Cup. He had a couple of really poor seasons but at the top of their games, I would take Selanne anyday.

The Stanley Cup is a team accomplishment and has no place in a discussion about the talent level of individual players

Yes and no, a guy like Lemieux, Gretzky, Crosby, Yzerman or somebody like that can carry a team. Problem is you could be the best offensive talent but if your goalie sucks and can't save anything *cough Loungo* then it's all for not.

I think the more I look at it I am agreeing with OldNo7 and like Salenne over Sundin the guy is a goal scoring machine. Sundin might get some nods only cause he made the 2000 era Leafs look less bad then they were

It's a coin flip, really

Selanne benefited from playing with Zhamnov and Tkachuk in Winnipeg and then with Kariya, Getzlaf and Perry in Anaheim

When Sundin played in Quebec with Sakic and Nolan he put up a 48 goal/113 point season

During his time with the Leafs I don't think he ever played with an all-star winger, unless you count past-their-prime players like Steve Thomas, Gary Roberts and Alex Mogilny as "all-stars"

Sundin is definitely an all-world talent and you just have to look at his stats during international play to see what I mean

To me, Sundin was like a Lemieux-light. Big, fast, great hands, hard accurate shot

UN-Owen · Post #11 » by **UN-Owen** » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:00 pm

Prime Lindros tops this list

Post #12 » by **Mr Swagtastic** » Mon Sep 2, 2013 5:25 pm

UN-Owen wrote:Prime Lindros tops this list

Better then Yzerman? I find that quite a hard to believe. Yzerman has more cups, goals, assists and better seasons. Lindros was tougher but if I were picking prime Stevie vs prime Eric I would take Stevie

lobosloboslobos · Post #13 » by **lobosloboslobos** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:54 am

No way lindros should be ranked above yzerman. First of all prime Lindros was really only a couple yearsm second of all yzerman's prime was better in every way than lindro's except for Lindros' sheer overwhelming power, which I admit was awesome to behold, especially when combined with his skill and speed. But in no kind of list can he be ranked ahead of yverman imo. And yeah selanne consistently gets underrated. but then agaijn, generally so does Sundin. I think Gilmore gets overrated, like Kevin Stevens adn John Leclair he was a terrific player at times but Lidstron, Yzerman and even Sundin were the best guys on the ice in most NHL games they played for close to 20 years. you can't say that about the others on that list.

i'll check back in 4-5 months to see who disagrees with me. :wink:

UN-Owen · Post #14 » by **UN-Owen** » Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:26 am

Yzerman is my all-time favorite player, but Prime Lindros is a once-in-a-lifetime talent

Lindros averaged 1.36 points-per-game during his career with the Flyers, which would be good for about 5th place all-time behind Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Bossy and I think Crosby

And again, I really liked Yzerman as a player, but was he really any better than Pat LaFontaine?

Yzerman, Lidstrom and Selanne are all very well respected around the league and are extremely likable as individuals, but there's a reason Lindros was the 1st overall pick in both the OHL and the NHL, a member of the '91 Canada Cup team at the age of 18 and a Hart Trophy winner by the time he was 21

With his size and talent, he dominated his sport the way Shaq dominated the NBA

Based purely on impact on the ice, there isn't a scout in hockey that would rank any of them over Lindros

UN-Owen · Post #15 » by **UN-Owen** » Sun Nov 3, 2013 7:48 pm

Mr Swagtastic wrote:
UN-Owen wrote:
OldNo7 wrote:So I'm the only one who would put Selanne over Sundin? Frankly playoffs matter, and Selanne won a Cup. He had a couple of really poor seasons but at the top of their games, I would take Selanne anyday.

The Stanley Cup is a team accomplishment and has no place in a discussion about the talent level of individual players

Yes and no, a guy like Lemieux, Gretzky, Crosby, Yzerman or somebody like that can carry a team. Problem is you could be the best offensive talent but if your goalie sucks and can't save anything *cough Loungo* then it's all for not.

I think the more I look at it I am agreeing with OldNo7 and like Salenne over Sundin the guy is a goal scoring machine. Sundin might get some nods only cause he made the 2000 era Leafs look less bad then they were

What's the definition of "carry a team"?

Gretzky won his Cups with Messier and Coffey

Lemieux didn't win a Cup until Jagr joined the team

Yzerman didn't win a Cup until Fedorov joined the team

Sakic didn't win a Cup until Forsberg joined the team

And it was Malkin, not Crosby, who won the Conn Smythe in 2009

You'd have a hard time convincing me that Detroit or Colorado couldn't have won those Cups if Sundin had switched places with one of Yzerman, Fedorov, Sakic or Forsberg