yardbarker

NCAA Wiretap Headlines

Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo

Moderators: Chuck Texas, moocow007, loserX, Trader_Joe, HartfordWhalers, jazzfan1971

Post#21 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:00 am by sunshinekids99

No go on a straight up deal. But if Pacers would take on Bass and Green I would listen.
Image
sunshinekids99
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
User avatar
Posts: 19,564
And1: 87
Joined: Apr 9, 2001
Top

Post#22 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:40 am by winter_mute_13

Pacersike wrote:
winter_mute_13 wrote:I'd be very wary of making this trade for the reasons chatard5 states, and in addition going from a good guy in Hibbert to Rondo (who's euphemistically described as "moody") can't be too good for the locker room. For a chemistry team like the Pacers, a Rondo type is a big risk.

Big risk for what? Not every difficult character guy goes knocking down fans in the stands or wants to shoot in public.

If it doesn't effect his performances on the court in a bad way and he doesn't do anything criminal (that most other players don't do), I can take it.

I still remember Pritchard's first words about Gerald Green. He said he is a good character guy and I was thinking so what? A good character should be a bonus, not a good reason to sign someone.
Mental toughness is important and Rondo has lots of that. Mental toughness is a big reason why Celtics are so good in the postseason.

Time to put the demons of the past behind us and not assume that every player with a moody character is going to screw this franchise again. I'm not going to deny Rondo has a difficult character, but where is the harm he is causing the Celtics, except for maybe some headaches?


There's truth to what you say.

I guess what it comes down to as my biggest objection is the timing rather than the idea of this trade, i.e. this isn't a trade that's easy to do midseason, but maybe we can revisit this idea in the offseason. Integrating a personality like Rondo won't be easy, and I truly believe that for the past 2 seasons our good locker room vibe has been integral to what success we've had.

This goes along with the roster adjustments that the earlier poster pointed to. We'd end up being perimeter heavy with this trade - ideally we'd have to make another move, trading Granger or Hill for a frontcourt guy. Again, if we're considering this kind of major change, seems best to do it in the offseason.

Unless you're suggesting we give up on this season as lost? I think we have a shot to make some noise in the playoffs this year, though obviously we're far from favorites, and I'm loathe to risk it by trading major components of the current team. As Daryl Morey said, teams with even just a 5% chance of winning it all should go for it - we can't take it for granted that we'll have this opportunity again, especially for a borderline contender like the Pacers. I mean, what if next year we lost Shaw, or if David West signs elsewhere, and we lost whatever secret ingredient it is that makes our chemistry work?

sunshinekids99 wrote:No go on a straight up deal. But if Pacers would take on Bass and Green I would listen.


A straight up deal (this year) wouldn't work anyway. Celtics are limited by de facto hard cap (luxury tax +apron) since they used the full MLE. It would have to be something like Hibbert + Augustin for Rondo + Bass (or Green).
winter_mute_13

Starter
User avatar
Posts: 2,477
And1: 173
Joined: Oct 7, 2003
Top

Post#23 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:12 am by Pacersike

winter_mute_13 wrote:I guess what it comes down to as my biggest objection is the timing rather than the idea of this trade, i.e. this isn't a trade that's easy to do midseason, but maybe we can revisit this idea in the offseason. Integrating a personality like Rondo won't be easy, and I truly believe that for the past 2 seasons our good locker room vibe has been integral to what success we've had.

This goes along with the roster adjustments that the earlier poster pointed to. We'd end up being perimeter heavy with this trade - ideally we'd have to make another move, trading Granger or Hill for a frontcourt guy. Again, if we're considering this kind of major change, seems best to do it in the offseason.

Unless you're suggesting we give up on this season as lost? I think we have a shot to make some noise in the playoffs this year, though obviously we're far from favorites, and I'm loathe to risk it by trading major components of the current team. As Daryl Morey said, teams with even just a 5% chance of winning it all should go for it - we can't take it for granted that we'll have this opportunity again, especially for a borderline contender like the Pacers. I mean, what if next year we lost Shaw, or if David West signs elsewhere, and we lost whatever secret ingredient it is that makes our chemistry work?

Yeah, I think this roster deserves a chance to show that they can be a top 2 team in the East.
It's just that my concerns about Hibbert are mostly for the playoffs, crunch time and performing under pressure.
Until this season, there has always been a surprise factor. We were clearly the underdogs against the Bulls and Heat and the Magic just didn't have a good team anymore with Howard injured.

This season is all about confirming and that's usually the hardest part, especially for mentally soft players. See Green or Hibbert and yes even with George I have my doubts(scoringwise). But maybe, that's just me, full of doubts sometimes :)
Anyway, when you give them a chance, there is also the possibility that they fail and that you won't get a player like Rondo for Hibbert anymore, if he could be had in the first place.
I don't have a big problem playing without a good center. Miami does it, Spurs are always saying they are looking for a center next to Duncan, Celtics technically don't really have one, Warriors are doing allright, Thunder only have a limited one. Clippers leave Jordan on the bench to end games, Hawks don't play too bad. If you have four (former) Allstars at the other 4 positions, you can compensate it IMO

Chemistry could be an issue, but I see it as an investment for the future. If you add him in the offseason, his first months next season will not be his best and his first playoffs with the team might also cause some chemistry issues.
Pacersike
Sixth Man
User avatar
Posts: 1,607
And1: 5
Joined: Jun 10, 2007
Location: Belgium
Top

Post#24 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:19 pm by jowglenn

I'm sorry, it comes down to the fact that Rajon Rondo, when the playoffs come around, is an MVP candidate. Did any of you people WATCH the Celtics-Heat series? In some of those games, Rondo was better than LeBron.
jowglenn

Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,955
And1: 829
Joined: May 16, 2006
Top

Post#25 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:47 pm by Scoot McGroot

j_angel wrote:
hcsilla wrote:I see Sullinger a future nice benchplayer ala Tyler Hansbrough. Even if I underestimate him, the Suns do not need him with Scola, Morris, Beasley and maybe Frye at PF.

But the main problem is Granger and his salary. He and it do not make sense for a rebuilding teams.


Sullinger has a way higher ceiling than Hansborough.

Sullinger is 20, just entering the league and putting up 6.1/6 in 20 mins (around 11/10.8 per 36).
Hansborough is 27, seven years old and his best season was 11/5.2 (think he was around 25/26 in that season) in 22 mins. He has not matched those stats since then.

Hansborough is a solid bench player good for 15-20mins a night currently, having been in the league 4 years and being 27. Sullinger is already that at the age of 20.


Sullinger's knees/legs are the next Brandon Roy. It was very clear in the Ohio State staff and media that Sullinger apparently has one leg that's almost 2 inches longer than the other leg, which will lead to leg, knee, and/or back issues throughout his career in all likelihood.
Scoot McGroot



Senior Mod - Pacers
Senior Mod - Pacers
User avatar
Posts: 19,239
And1: 546
Joined: Feb 15, 2005
Top

Post#26 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:52 pm by j_angel

Wheres the link to this? first iv heard of it.
j_angel
Analyst
Posts: 3,100
And1: 362
Joined: Jul 9, 2012
Location: England
Top

Post#27 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:54 pm by Nuntius

j_angel wrote:Versatile?
- He isnt a good offensive player.


He is. He has a back to basket game unlike most Centers nowadays. He is shooting terribly this year due to a wrist injury.

j_angel wrote:- He isnt a good rebounder for his size either. He averages 8.2 rebounds per 28mins. Thats 10.5 per 36. Thats less than 6'9 Jared Sullinger.


He is a good rebounder. In fact, he is a great offensive rebounder. He just doesn't a lot of defensive rebounds since he contests so many shots. You cannot get a defensive rebound when you are contesting a shot. It's that simple.

j_angel wrote:- Yes he is a terrific defender, but he isnt versatile. Kevin Garnett is versatile.

You are overselling Hibbert & Undervaluing Rondo.
There two careers are not even comparable to this date.


Hibbert is also a very good passer for a big man.

Is Rondo the better player? For sure.

But Hibbert is the foundation of Indiana's defense. I wouldn't touch him. And he's not overpaid. He's just underperforming.

Plus, I wouldn't take Rondo as a Pacers fan. He is a true point guard. True point guards do not fit with Indiana's system. We need a PG who is a good defender and a good shooter. We have that in George Hill. So, there's no reason to sacrifice our starting C for a player that doesn't fit our system.
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."

She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
Nuntius


Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
User avatar
Posts: 8,840
And1: 1,088
Joined: Feb 28, 2012
Top

Post#28 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:04 pm by Nuntius

Pacersike wrote:but he is also a big reason why good outsideshooting and pick and roll teams have our number.


You can certainly blame him for the scoring that PnP bigs put on him. It is a fact that he struggles against bigs that can hit the 15 jumper and stretch the floor a bit.

But he's not to blame about what players like Redick and Korver can do to us. That's on Paul George, Lance and George Hill.


Pacersike wrote:and not mentally soft.


A player that picks up fight with his teammates and bitches about them is not mentally soft?

If that's the case then I wish that all of our players are mentally soft. Artest wasn't mentally soft either :wink:
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."

She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
Nuntius


Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
User avatar
Posts: 8,840
And1: 1,088
Joined: Feb 28, 2012
Top

Post#29 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:08 pm by Nuntius

"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."

She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
Nuntius


Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
User avatar
Posts: 8,840
And1: 1,088
Joined: Feb 28, 2012
Top

Post#30 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:12 pm by Nuntius

Pacersike wrote:but where is the harm he is causing the Celtics, except for maybe some headaches?


He cost them Ray Allen. And there's a reason that some Celtics fans are entertaining this idea. There is no smoke without fire.
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."

She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
Nuntius


Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
User avatar
Posts: 8,840
And1: 1,088
Joined: Feb 28, 2012
Top

Post#31 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:22 pm by j_angel

Nuntius wrote:
Pacersike wrote:but where is the harm he is causing the Celtics, except for maybe some headaches?


He cost them Ray Allen. And there's a reason that some Celtics fans are entertaining this idea. There is no smoke without fire.


Thanks for the links, I knew the back was the issue but didnt know about one leg being shorter. I thought his back was red flagged for bulging disks.

Also. Rondo did not cost us Ray Allen.
Ray Allen's ego cost us Ray Allen
Bradley > Allen and KG > Allen and also Rondo > Allen. Ray didnt like that.
j_angel
Analyst
Posts: 3,100
And1: 362
Joined: Jul 9, 2012
Location: England
Top

Post#32 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:14 pm by Nuntius

j_angel wrote:Thanks for the links, I knew the back was the issue but didnt know about one leg being shorter. I thought his back was red flagged for bulging disks.

Also. Rondo did not cost us Ray Allen.
Ray Allen's ego cost us Ray Allen
Bradley > Allen and KG > Allen and also Rondo > Allen. Ray didnt like that.


I have to agree that Avery Bradley is more impactful than Ray Allen at the moment. Still, I think that Rondo's ego is a bit too high for the Pacers.

To make myself clear. I'm not saying that Rondo is a criminal or anything. Paul George recently said in an interview that this is a team with no egos. And I love that. Rondo would bring his ego along with him and I wouldn't like that.

Plus, as I said before I don't think that Rondo is a good fit for our offense. That's not to say that Rondo isn't the superior player. He is. He is just not a good fit for us.
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."

She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
Nuntius


Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
User avatar
Posts: 8,840
And1: 1,088
Joined: Feb 28, 2012
Top

Post#33 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:48 am by Pacersike

Nuntius wrote:Plus, I wouldn't take Rondo as a Pacers fan. He is a true point guard. True point guards do not fit with Indiana's system. We need a PG who is a good defender and a good shooter. We have that in George Hill. So, there's no reason to sacrifice our starting C for a player that doesn't fit our system.

I'd say Indiana's system depends a lot on having Hibbert or not and that he is a big reason for the offense Vogel is trying to run (and also the flaws). Like you said, Roy is a very good passer (when he has time) and a PG like Hill is good enough because we have Hibbert to run our offense through and we need shooters to space the floor for him. When Hibbert is gone, you can change the system and push the tempo, set more picks, move without the ball more. It's a reason to postpone a trade till after the season, but I hope you realise that defense isn't the only thing he plays a major part in. We have to play the pace Hibbert can keep up with.

Nuntius wrote:But he's not to blame about what players like Redick and Korver can do to us. That's on Paul George, Lance and George Hill.

He is though. You play defense as a team. You can't say he is a great overall defender if he doesn't have any effect on what's going on around the perimeter or when he has to provide help defense on players running into screens. It's no coïncidence those players you mentioned use their speed to get their shot off. The times one of our players has to fight through a screen without close help from Hibbert are countless. One quick step would be enough to give one of our players a chance to catch up with the runner. Players like Noah and Garnett can do it.

We totally disagree about egos. Most great players all have big egos. If everyone is buddies in the lockerroom, I don't know if that really is a good thing. It could be. You think Ray Allen doesn't have an ego?
As long as they can play together on the court, I can take it. The Celtics could last year, despite some of them not being buddies.
Pacersike
Sixth Man
User avatar
Posts: 1,607
And1: 5
Joined: Jun 10, 2007
Location: Belgium
Top

Post#34 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:25 am by Nuntius

Pacersike wrote:I'd say Indiana's system depends a lot on having Hibbert or not and that he is a big reason for the offense Vogel is trying to run (and also the flaws). Like you said, Roy is a very good passer (when he has time) and a PG like Hill is good enough because we have Hibbert to run our offense through and we need shooters to space the floor for him. When Hibbert is gone, you can change the system and push the tempo, set more picks, move without the ball more. It's a reason to postpone a trade till after the season, but I hope you realise that defense isn't the only thing he plays a major part in. We have to play the pace Hibbert can keep up with.


West and Granger need a similar pace as well. We're a power post team. Teams that are run primarily through the post do not need true point guards. They need Fisher-like guards.

Pacersike wrote:He is though. You play defense as a team. You can't say he is a great overall defender if he doesn't have any effect on what's going on around the perimeter or when he has to provide help defense on players running into screens. It's no coïncidence those players you mentioned use their speed to get their shot off. The times one of our players has to fight through a screen without close help from Hibbert are countless. One quick step would be enough to give one of our players a chance to catch up with the runner. Players like Noah and Garnett can do it.


He does provide help defense on players running into screens. He tries to keep up with the guard. He is just not quick enough in order back to his man if the guard decides to pass.

But he is not to blame for Redick and Korver torching us from the arc. He's not the one that is supposed to chase them around screens.

Pacersike wrote:We totally disagree about egos. Most great players all have big egos. If everyone is buddies in the lockerroom, I don't know if that really is a good thing. It could be. You think Ray Allen doesn't have an ego?
As long as they can play together on the court, I can take it. The Celtics could last year, despite some of them not being buddies.


Ray Allen surely does have ego. But in their first run Allen, Pierce and Garnett had great chemistry. And that's what put them on top.

Also, not all great players have big egos. Duncan does not have an ego. And he seems to be quite friendly with Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili.

That's how I want my players to be. They should aspire to act like Duncan. Not like Kobe.

Just my opinion, of course.
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."

She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
Nuntius


Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
User avatar
Posts: 8,840
And1: 1,088
Joined: Feb 28, 2012
Top

Post#35 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:03 am by Pacersike

Nuntius wrote:West and Granger need a similar pace as well. We're a power post team. Teams that are run primarily through the post do not need true point guards. They need Fisher-like guards.

I disagree. West can also score with a true point guard to pick and pop with. See CP3
I think Granger would be even more deadly with a better passing PG. We don't need to have the fastest pace.

Nuntius wrote:
He does provide help defense on players running into screens. He tries to keep up with the guard. He is just not quick enough in order back to his man if the guard decides to pass.

But he is not to blame for Redick and Korver torching us from the arc. He's not the one that is supposed to chase them around screens..

I disagree. For a part he is to blame. Redick runs around a screen from Davis. Hibbert is involved. Not as much, but he is. If Hibbert has to defend a stronger big in the paint, isn't it also our wings fault if they don't help out?
Imagine if they would be as slow as Hibbert.




Nuntius wrote:Ray Allen surely does have ego. But in their first run Allen, Pierce and Garnett had great chemistry. And that's what put them on top.

Also, not all great players have big egos. Duncan does not have an ego. And he seems to be quite friendly with Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili.

That's how I want my players to be. They should aspire to act like Duncan. Not like Kobe.

Just my opinion, of course.

Agree to a certain degree. Do I want them to be modest and very friendly? Yes, but they don't have to be that.
I could very much live with guys like Kobe, Garnett, Rondo on my team. Their actions don't repel me.
Artest throwing elbows, Griffin flopping and diving, players like Cousins, Josh Smith and Love complaining about others in stead of looking at themselves first, those are the things that repel me.

To each his own. Although you did make me realize that a big ego has more room to bounce around in a bigger city. I do like players like Rondo, but maybe they are not well suited for small market teams. Maybe that's why Love, Cousins and Josh Smith are complaining so much :)
Pacersike
Sixth Man
User avatar
Posts: 1,607
And1: 5
Joined: Jun 10, 2007
Location: Belgium
Top

Post#36 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:36 am by Nuntius

Pacersike wrote:I disagree. West can also score with a true point guard to pick and pop with. See CP3
I think Granger would be even more deadly with a better passing PG. We don't need to have the fastest pace.


Pick and Pop is a set play. You don't need to be an elite PG to run it. Hill and West are running this play very effectively.

What differentiates a true PG with a combo guard like Hill is the ability to create off the dribble and drive - dish. Granger could benefit from a drive and dish like any other deadly shooter. But Granger can get a good amount of high quality shots out of post-ups and shots off of screens.

We mostly need a slow pace as a team. This slow offensive pace is what sets up our defense. George and Lance could thrive in a higher-paced offense but Granger, West and Hibbert are much better in a set offense.

Pacersike wrote:I disagree. For a part he is to blame. Redick runs around a screen from Davis. Hibbert is involved. Not as much, but he is. If Hibbert has to defend a stronger big in the paint, isn't it also our wings fault if they don't help out?
Imagine if they would be as slow as Hibbert.


How is he to blame for Paul George or Lance failing to keep up with Redick and Korver? Those types of shooters run off of countless staggered screens. Is it the whole team to blame? Or should Roy just push Davis in order to not let him set the screen?

Bigs have nothing to do with the amount of 3 point shots that 3 point specialists receive after running off of a number of screens unless they are the ones responsible for guarding him (in Ryan Anderson's case, for example).

Pacersike wrote:Agree to a certain degree. Do I want them to be modest and very friendly? Yes, but they don't have to be that.
I could very much live with guys like Kobe, Garnett, Rondo on my team. Their actions don't repel me.
Artest throwing elbows, Griffin flopping and diving, players like Cousins, Josh Smith and Love complaining about others in stead of looking at themselves first, those are the things that repel me.

To each his own. Although you did make me realize that a big ego has more room to bounce around in a bigger city. I do like players like Rondo, but maybe they are not well suited for small market teams. Maybe that's why Love, Cousins and Josh Smith are complaining so much :)


I don't have anything against Rondo per se. If he was a great fit, I could live with his character. Also, I have nothing against Garnett. He is kinda dirty on the court but he isn't a locker room cancer. But I wouldn't want anything to do with the Kobes of the world. This attitude repels me more than anything.

As I said earlir, I'd much rather have players that act like Duncan than anything else :D
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."

She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
Nuntius


Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
User avatar
Posts: 8,840
And1: 1,088
Joined: Feb 28, 2012
Top

Post#37 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:21 am by Pacersike

Nuntius wrote:Pick and Pop is a set play. You don't need to be an elite PG to run it. Hill and West are running this play very effectively.

What differentiates a true PG with a combo guard like Hill is the ability to create off the dribble and drive - dish. Granger could benefit from a drive and dish like any other deadly shooter. But Granger can get a good amount of high quality shots out of post-ups and shots off of screens.

We mostly need a slow pace as a team. This slow offensive pace is what sets up our defense. George and Lance could thrive in a higher-paced offense but Granger, West and Hibbert are much better in a set offense.

How is he to blame for Paul George or Lance failing to keep up with Redick and Korver? Those types of shooters run off of countless staggered screens. Is it the whole team to blame? Or should Roy just push Davis in order to not let him set the screen?

Bigs have nothing to do with the amount of 3 point shots that 3 point specialists receive after running off of a number of screens unless they are the ones responsible for guarding him (in Ryan Anderson's case, for example).

Let's just agree to disagree then :)

Yes, I believe all 5 players are to blame for what happens on the court. Some more than others and coach is responsible too.

Yes, I believe West and Granger can also contribute in a big way with a true PG and a center who moves quickly. A big who can pick and roll would be a great, as we don't have one of those now, if you don't count Plumlee.
You can still slow down and run faster halfcourt sets.
Pacersike
Sixth Man
User avatar
Posts: 1,607
And1: 5
Joined: Jun 10, 2007
Location: Belgium
Top

Post#38 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:23 am by Wizop

regardless of whether any of the handful of point guards who are better than Hill would make us better, I have no interest is giving up what it would require to get one of them. we're not rebuilding. we're in the hunt just barely out of first with our best scorer of the last several years sitting on the end of the bench in a suit.

I remember a year when we were getting into the NBA playoffs for the first time and we traded for an aging George McGinnis thinking he'd put us over the top. it destroyed our chemistry and in my opinion cost Slick his job as GM. you have to be very careful about trading away parts of a team that is succeeding. incidentally, the GM of the other team who sent George back to us .... Donnie Walsh who was then in Denver.
Wizop


Lead Assistant
User avatar
Posts: 5,437
And1: 157
Joined: Jun 15, 2003
Location: Lake Edgewood - near Martinsville, IN
Top

Post#39 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:44 pm by Nuntius

Pacersike wrote:Let's just agree to disagree then :)


Deal :wink:
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."

She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
- Agalloch
Nuntius


Forum Mod - Pacers
Forum Mod - Pacers
User avatar
Posts: 8,840
And1: 1,088
Joined: Feb 28, 2012
Top

Previous

Return to Trades and Transactions


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AussieBuck, DowNY