MN-GSW draft day

[old rem]

Monta doesn't fit a need for the Wolves. Yeah he can score, but we need size at the 2, and someone who's good for ball movement, can post up, and play defense. Monta isn't a good fit. Not saying he's a bad player, but he's not the type the Wolves need.

Yes every team needs Kobe Byrant, but we can't get him. If we got Monta we would be really lucky. The Wolves definitiely need a scorer at the 2 spot and I see no reason why Monta can't fill that void. Monta could certainly play off of Rubio a la JC Navarro right now and be very successful. Monta would be even more dynamic in a system designed to avoid double teams like the triangle.

Jefferson for Ellis, I'd prefer not to do though. I want the mississipi connection.

How about Love/Hollins/Sessions/Gomes for Monta/Watson?

For what it's worth...probably one of the better Ellis trade ideas so far. Given the contracts in place,GSW may like it without Hollins more.

[Krapinsky]

Store of jerks, it's not a straw man argument. You said the Wolves should be looking for a SG that was taller than Ellis, could post up, play better defense than Ellis, can hit the three pointer better than Ellis, and get to the line more than Ellis. How many SG's fit into that box? Kobe and Joe Johnson?

I take the 19 year old draft propsect that I mentioned earlier. Xavier Henry. Now now, before you start laughing, Ellis is a better player straight-up than Henry is, but, here's why I take Henry over Ellis.

-Henry is 5.5years younger.
-Henry is 3 inches taller and 30 pounds havier. Henry is built, and stronger.
-He's a hell of a lot better shooter.
-In college Henry got to the line about the same as Ellis did this year in the pros. Total difference in NCAA vs NBA, obviously, but typically FTAs go up in the pros.
-Curious how Henry's going to grade out length wise, but Monta Ellis has an average, at best, wingspan.
-And my favorite, is that Henry's on a rookie deal and can be drafted. He's not going to cost $11mil and sending out Jefferson to obtain him.

Oh, and I'm highly doubting we're going to ever hear reports about Xavier Henry not communicating with teammates, bashing draft picks, getting hurt on mopeds, lying about injuries, getting in trouble with coaches/management, or have to consider voiding his contract.

You know, normally I love your posts. But this one was just merely a "list" showing little effort at all. You couldn't even write a paragraph, really? Were you running out of time? Is this what they taught you in "business" school?

Enough nonsense, I'm not sure if Henry can guard 2's in the NBA though. Might be a SF. And he certainly won't be posting anyone up anytime soon, but I'm not sure why that's part of the criteria anyway. Assuming we didn't land Wall or Turner, Ellis at the 2, Henry at the 3 is a pretty good combination to have.

[john2jer]

I didn't go to business school, I just ended up in a business job because my degree led me to no where.

Not necessarily part of the criteria, but Turner's post up game is probably the part of his game that I'm most excited about.

[shrink]

Jefferson for Ellis, I'd prefer not to do though. I want the mississipi connection.

How about Love/Hollins/Sessions/Gomes for Monta/Watson?

Blech and blech. Both are big to small, Love is young to old - I wouldn't be interested in either deal.

[FNQ]

It wasn't from me, and that's kind of the point. I don't even post trades with GSW in them anymore because I think the responses from the GSW fanbase is so out of touch with reality
I first posted in this thread because I saw a somewhat reasonable trade, a somewhat reasonable decline, and then the typical over-the-top decline ("include the #2 before we consider it!"). It makes me feel sad to see attempts at legitimate GSW trades keep going down this same path. If the loudest GSW voices were total idiots, then I wouldn't care and would just stop reading the posts altogether. However, you're not, and that's why it makes me sad and frustrated.

w's fans get it... We have to hear those same posters all the time. Problem is that if people are gonna generalize our fanbase based on those 4 posters, no new GS posters will come. I only post here infrequently because it seems the trade board posters would rather engage and mock the same homer posters rather than have an actual back and forth.

Yeah they post the most often... But people always respond to them instead of the more realistic posters, and then complain that GSW fans are unrealistic. Really frustrating for us..

[Krapinsky]

Jefferson for Ellis, I'd prefer not to do though. I want the mississipi connection.

How about Love/Hollins/Sessions/Gomes for Monta/Watson?

Blech and blech. Both are big to small, Love is young to old - I wouldn't be interested in either deal.

We have to trade big for small sometime. Love is a big, but he's not that big, he's undersized. Young to old? Not even relevant. If anything this is a bonus. Ellis is entering his prime and is signed longer than Love. Love is only signed for two more year. In the NBA Love will probably be on another team regardless long before "old man" Ellis starts breaking down.

[Chris Porter's Hair]

As I see it,

Jefferson + $1 mil cap space > Maggette + Randolph + Wright.

I'm OK with people saying its equal. However

#2 >> #5

gswhoops made a reasonable decline. I think you overstate it when you say that GSW won't even consider it unless MIN's #2 is in the deal.

The first was a legitimate offer. gswhoops was a legitimate refusal. Yours was way way over the top.

I would rather let the lower costing Randolph and Wright who are 20 and 22 develop at PF than commit the kind of cap space to Jefferson requires since Golden State's not in a win now mode.

That's a fair point, and I might well agree with it. I think others are pointing out that suggesting that this gets fixed by Minnesota giving up a top 3 pick isn't realistic and doesn't lead to any sort of constructive discussion.

[Krapinsky]

As I see it,

Jefferson + $1 mil cap space > Maggette + Randolph + Wright.

I'm OK with people saying its equal. However

#2 >> #5

gswhoops made a reasonable decline. I think you overstate it when you say that GSW won't even consider it unless MIN's #2 is in the deal.

The first was a legitimate offer. gswhoops was a legitimate refusal. Yours was way way over the top.

I would rather let the lower costing Randolph and Wright who are 20 and 22 develop at PF than commit the kind of cap space to Jefferson requires since Golden State's not in a win now mode.

For a team not in win now mode they sure have a lot of money tied up --- Ellis, Maggette, Biendrins, Turiaf. The Jackson trade certainly suggested they were in win now mode and I don't see why anything has changed.

[DLeagueAllStars]

Not sure why fan bases are complaining so much here

Look Minn fans see Jefferson as a young PF still who can put up 20 an 10.. Warriors see Ellis as a dynamic young SG whose numbers could still increase... but both have many faults which is why neither fan base would pony up what other teams want to make that trade..

At some point you just give up and move on

[john2jer]

Not sure why fan bases are complaining so much here

Look Minn fans see Jefferson as a young PF still who can put up 20 an 10.. Warriors see Ellis as a dynamic young SG whose numbers could still increase... but both have many faults which is why neither fan base would pony up what other teams want to make that trade..

At some point you just give up and move on

BINGO!

[Rashoismydad]

For those asking how the wolves will fill the SG position, why do you assume this has to be addressed with a final solution NOW? Brewer could be a sufficient SG if he was paired with a SF like melo (who is a FA next year). Harrison barnes will likely be in next years draft. Joe Johnson? Players are always falling out of favor and being made available. We need a #1 perimeter scorer at the SG/SF position, but we have enough other needs to address as well. If we land a solid wing and address our front court athleticism and defense then we can focus all of our attention on filling that hole.

[don nelson]

As I see it,

Jefferson + $1 mil cap space > Maggette + Randolph + Wright.

I'm OK with people saying its equal. However

#2 >> #5

gswhoops made a reasonable decline. I think you overstate it when you say that GSW won't even consider it unless MIN's #2 is in the deal.

The first was a legitimate offer. gswhoops was a legitimate refusal. Yours was way way over the top.

I would rather let the lower costing Randolph and Wright who are 20 and 22 develop at PF than commit the kind of cap space to Jefferson requires since Golden State's not in a win now mode.

That's a fair point, and I might well agree with it. I think others are pointing out that suggesting that this gets fixed by Minnesota giving up a top 3 pick isn't realistic and doesn't lead to any sort of constructive discussion.

You point is valid. However the problem I have is just because the Warriors are offered what is deemed to be reasonable value for some of our power players who the team really can't afford to move isn't enough justification to accept the trade offer unless the other team is willing to overpay. In this case the Warriors badly need to add more size because they're already very thin at the 4/5 spots which is why trading away 2 younger but promising power forwards for 1 higher costing one who doesn't defend will increase the probability d league players like Toliver and Hunter who saw major playing time this past season will do more of the same next year

[don nelson]

As I see it,

Jefferson + $1 mil cap space > Maggette + Randolph + Wright.

I'm OK with people saying its equal. However

#2 >> #5

gswhoops made a reasonable decline. I think you overstate it when you say that GSW won't even consider it unless MIN's #2 is in the deal.

The first was a legitimate offer. gswhoops was a legitimate refusal. Yours was way way over the top.

I would rather let the lower costing Randolph and Wright who are 20 and 22 develop at PF than commit the kind of cap space to Jefferson requires since Golden State's not in a win now mode.

For a team not in win now mode they sure have a lot of money tied up --- Ellis, Maggette, Biendrins, Turiaf. The Jackson trade certainly suggested they were in win now mode and I don't see why anything has changed.

Ellis, Biedrins and Maggette are the highest paid players on the roster costing the Warriors a total of $29.6 million next season. Turiaf is signed for only $4 million. The Warriors will have 11 players under contract next year for a total of $53 million. Assuming the Warriors spend another $4 million for their 1st round pick, Golden State will have 12 players under contract with only Maggette and Vlad older than 26 and will still be about $10 million under the projected luxury tax limit. Don't really see how that translates to the Warriors being in a win now mode.

[Krapinsky]

I would rather let the lower costing Randolph and Wright who are 20 and 22 develop at PF than commit the kind of cap space to Jefferson requires since Golden State's not in a win now mode.

For a team not in win now mode they sure have a lot of money tied up --- Ellis, Maggette, Biendrins, Turiaf. The Jackson trade certainly suggested they were in win now mode and I don't see why anything has changed.

Ellis, Biedrins and Maggette are the highest paid players on the roster costing the Warriors a total of $29.6 million next season. Turiaf is signed for only $4 million. The Warriors will have 11 players under contract next year for a total of $53 million. Assuming the Warriors spend another $4 million for their 1st round pick, Golden State will have 12 players under contract with only Maggette and Vlad older than 26 and will still be about $10 million under the projected luxury tax limit. Don't really see how that translates to the Warriors being in a win now mode.

That's easy. Compare other rebuilding teams. At the beginning of the year how many players did MN have making over 8 million this year (that wasn't an expiring dead weight contract)? (1). OKC? (0?) . NJ? (1?). Sac? (0?). Certainly, if ownership is paying three players good, quality starter money, and Turiaf good back up player money, then certainly ownership isn't paying to lose.

[DLeagueAllStars]

if any Warrior fans are really going to rely on Tolliver and Hunter to give any type of reliable stats next year they are sorely mistaken... They arent that good

[turk3d]

I agree with Krapinsky that Warriors will be in a win now next year (after two years of tanking and it supposedly being Nellie's last year). At the same time, I believe that they should stay young. If they keep Ellis and Biedrins (and George) that gives them at least 3 players who have playoff experience (albeit that two are quite young) but I think with a healthy crew and Nellie coaching to win (for a change) they will have a pretty decent shot at the playoffs next year especially if they avoid the injury bug like they had this year. Wtih Mags coming off a strong year and Bukie returning we're going to be very strong in the depth department.

[BeRight32]

That's easy. Compare other rebuilding teams. At the beginning of the year how many players did MN have making over 8 million this year (that wasn't an expiring dead weight contract)? (1). OKC? (0?) . NJ? (1?). Sac? (0?). Certainly, if ownership is paying three players good, quality starter money, and Turiaf good back up player money, then certainly ownership isn't paying to lose.

This statement isnt too accurate and I dont see how having high paid players means your in win-now mode????
-Im pretty sure OKC is done rebuilding
-And Detroit is rebuilding, are they not?
-ANd sacremento has some pretty long contracts on crappy players (Udrith, Garcia, Nocioni)
-Which franchise actually pays to lose...

[turk3d]

With VladRad an expiring next (and maybe even opting out this year) the Warriors are right where they need to be capwise for what they're intending to do. They're comfortably under the lux tax and are not thinking of being players in this years FA grab bag and thus are content to go with their existing talent base plus a high draft this coming season. There maybe a little wiggle room in order to do a trade should one capture their fancy. None of these deals do that. We think we're going to have a pretty good group going for us next season, particularly if we have major success in this year's draft. Unless we see something really appetizing, then (quoting the Don) "no deal is a good deal".

[510TWSS]

We were just compared to Rush Limbaugh. If anyone were a bigger waste of space than Rush Limbaugh...

[old rem]

With VladRad an expiring next (and maybe even opting out this year) the Warriors are right where they need to be capwise for what they're intending to do. They're comfortably under the lux tax and are not thinking of being players in this years FA grab bag and thus are content to go with their existing talent base plus a high draft this coming season. There maybe a little wiggle room in order to do a trade should one capture their fancy. None of these deals do that. We think we're going to have a pretty good group going for us next season, particularly if we have major success in this year's draft. Unless we see something really appetizing, then (quoting the Don) "no deal is a good deal".

My take too.

GSW has TALENT....two deep at each position. The BIG contracts peak at $11 mill or less. Those guys scored 25 + 20 per,which ...is nice at the price.

GSW has MANY players who have averaged 10+,who have topped 25 or 30 pt. What is still unclear is what happens if they ALL can PLAY. GSW just had one of the all time "most injured " seasons. We have assets like Randolph/Wright we still can't quite say ARE........whatever.....and yet we DID see some high end talent. We have a number of other guys who HAVE at times been THE best player.
We need to KNOW who can do that OFTEN.

The W's are a MYSTERY. I saw most of the games and am looking at PROBABLE...not ABSOLUTE.
PROBABLE...is pretty good and we NEED to make it be whatever it can be. GSW has a WINDOW, based on a deep,and young team. GSW has to gamble a bit that a percentage of that young,still semi-raw,talent IS everything they can be. Making it to the TOP is HARD. Very Very hard. We can't ASSUME we get to pick a Tim Duncan. Our play is to win with DEPTH + speed and we MIGHT have that set up. We do need MORE of defense/rebound as well as fully using what we do have. I SEE a Warriors team,mostly BUILT AND HERE....that's a legit contender at some point in the future.

The TRICK is to NOT do stupid. If GSW does STUPID...bungling a rare shot at the top-is possible.
Yeah...we could do Maggette/Bargnani,and be okay. We'd be shifting the scorer role,but not losing the vital defense/rebounds part. Even that, I accept because I really have a feeling Azuibuike is high upside. I don't see Bargs as more than a #3-4 big man off the bench.