Deng for Lebron?

[Triumph36]

I totally understand the Cavs POV here and it's completely justified. If they lose Lebron, they basically have nothing else. It really doesn't make sense to take on Deng despite the fact that he's still only 25. What they'd want is picks and rookie salary contracts of players with upside like James Johnson. On the other end, the Bulls have no reason to give them low dollar contracts because they don't cut enough salary. However, there is a perspective to be looked at if Lebron's departure to Chicago is inevitable.

Let's say Chicago does sign Lebron, for hypothetical purposes. What's the first thing the Cavs will look to do? I don't think they can move Jamison, Mo nor Andy and expect a return. I think they'll have about 50 mil in salary and no draft picks this season. Do you think the Bulls could convince the Cavs to take Hinrich at 9 mil and 8 mil over the next two seasons if we gave them James Johnson and our first round pick? I think they could and I think if the Cavs want to start rebuilding, that wouldn't be a bad start.

No. Look, Cleveland is NOT going to give Chicago cap-space to sign an additional max-contract player in the very same deal where they give out LeBron. LeBron leaving and going to a rival like Chicago would be a MAJOR salt in the wound. Major.

-Cleveland is not going to give LeBron millions of additional dollars to go play for Chicago.
-Cleveland is not going to give LeBron a chance to play with even BETTER talent by taking on salary from Chicago.
-Cleveland is not going to give Chicago a dynasty by freeing up enough space for them to sign an additional max-contract FA.

Now if Chicago offered up Noah, then the Cavs might take back Deng. James Johnson is not going to do it though.

If this was a joke, A+. Very good.

[panthermark]

I understand the logic behind Cleveland wanting to go into "rebuild" mode right away. The problem is that Mo and AV will be there for a bit of time, and NO ONE is taking Jamison until he is a trade deadline expiring deal. So the rebuilding project will take some time to get started.

Also...the Bulls are only looking to dump Deng because his salary slot can help sign another max FA. Deng averaged 17.6 points per game, 7.3 rebounds per game, and is about 3 1/2 months younger than Bron. Overpaid? Yes...BUT it isn't as if we are in a hurry to get rid of him.

18.8/7.1
17.0/6.3
14.1/6.0
17.6/7.3

Here are his last 4 years, obviously he had bad 08-09, but outside of that...he is actually a pretty good SF.

[mattg]

I understand the logic behind Cleveland wanting to go into "rebuild" mode right away. The problem is that Mo and AV will be there for a bit of time, and NO ONE is taking Jamison until he is a trade deadline expiring deal. So the rebuilding project will take some time to get started.

Also...the Bulls are only looking to dump Deng because his salary slot can help sign another max FA. Deng averaged 17.6 points per game, 7.3 rebounds per game, and is about 3 1/2 months younger than Bron. Overpaid? Yes...BUT it isn't as if we are in a hurry to get rid of him.

18.8/7.1
17.0/6.3
14.1/6.0
17.6/7.3

Here are his last 4 years, obviously he had bad 08-09, but outside of that...he is actually a pretty good SF.

no one is disputing that he is a solid player, but everyone and their mom knows you aren't winning jack with Deng as one of your main guys. Additionally it's already been outlineed that adding deng pushes you into the fringe playoff zone that makes all the more difficult to rebuild. A team featuring Mo, Jamison and AV as its guys is probably looking at a top 5 pick. Add Deng? You're in the late lotto. It just isn't worth it, that Cleveland team with Deng has no future, it just gets stuck in mediocrity.

[Leto]

I totally understand the Cavs POV here and it's completely justified. If they lose Lebron, they basically have nothing else. It really doesn't make sense to take on Deng despite the fact that he's still only 25. What they'd want is picks and rookie salary contracts of players with upside like James Johnson. On the other end, the Bulls have no reason to give them low dollar contracts because they don't cut enough salary. However, there is a perspective to be looked at if Lebron's departure to Chicago is inevitable.

Let's say Chicago does sign Lebron, for hypothetical purposes. What's the first thing the Cavs will look to do? I don't think they can move Jamison, Mo nor Andy and expect a return. I think they'll have about 50 mil in salary and no draft picks this season. Do you think the Bulls could convince the Cavs to take Hinrich at 9 mil and 8 mil over the next two seasons if we gave them James Johnson and our first round pick? I think they could and I think if the Cavs want to start rebuilding, that wouldn't be a bad start.

No. Look, Cleveland is NOT going to give Chicago cap-space to sign an additional max-contract player in the very same deal where they give out LeBron. LeBron leaving and going to a rival like Chicago would be a MAJOR salt in the wound. Major.

-Cleveland is not going to give LeBron millions of additional dollars to go play for Chicago.
-Cleveland is not going to give LeBron a chance to play with even BETTER talent by taking on salary from Chicago.
-Cleveland is not going to give Chicago a dynasty by freeing up enough space for them to sign an additional max-contract FA.

Now if Chicago offered up Noah, then the Cavs might take back Deng. James Johnson is not going to do it though.

Thats one perspective. Settle down, hothead. I can promise you the Bulls aren't going to offer up Noah.

If Lbron goes to Chicago, Cavs won't be giving Lebron money to leave in any circumstance. That statement makes no sense.

Cleveland will do what they think is best for their franchise. Not what you think is best for them. If that includes taking Hinrich plus incentive in a S&T that's what they'll do despite your protestations.

Look, Scooby Doo, it won't be difficult to chnge one of Hinrich or Deng into expiring contracts or capspace with the picks and young talent we have. Hinrich only has 2 years left on a declining contract and he is a starting caliber PG in this league. Im pretty sure we can find a team to take him along with JJ and either the Bobcats pick or our current pick or both. Ask Washington fans if they'd take Kirk, JJ and both those picks and Im pretty sure they won't mind Kirk's contract for two seasons while they rebuild.

[Ray Allen Iverson]

Apparently, you remember me a WHOLE lot better than I remember you. I'm sorry, but I don't remember the deal, nor the discussion.

I promise, that I'm writing to the best of my knowledge. I stopped posting here frequently, because I don't find it satisfactory to argue against fan bias.

I'm sure, it was a whole lot more intensive than just straight JO and other guys for straight expirings.

You can't be sure, if you don't remember the discussion, IMO.

Believe me, back then, I still would've dumped Murphy, Dunleavy, and Tinsley for straight expirings.

You were more moderate than DGrangeRx33 for sure, nevertheless you agreed, that it was of no use to dismantle a team by trading your only starplayer, Jermaine O'Neal in order to rebuild via draft. I promise you again that this claim is to the best of my knowledge.

The only way I can see arguing against that is to get SOMETHING of long-term value in return as well. Somebody that can help you for more than just an expiring contract. Picks, young guys, somebody.

I made at least two proposals to get Isiah Thomas "his players" from his Indiana tenure to New York. I am 100% sure, that you and DGrangeRx33 couldn't be convinced that savings of more than 100 million dollars over three / four seasons and some late draft picks weren't enough in regards to Indiananapolis' basketball draught, i.e. potential stagnating attendance. Maybe, it's because the economy didn't force franchises to budget meticulously, nevertheless, the Pacers were in the red and still, you couldn't be convinced towards cleaning your favorite franchise' payroll entirely.

I think I'm arguing the exact same point here as well. The Cavs should only make the deal if they get something useful. Sure, they COULD trade Deng in the future, or they could get stuck with the last 3 or 4 years of his deal when people realize he's not worth $10-14 million in any given season.

I'm thinking that you argue quite the opposite here, otherwise I wouldn't have pointed that out obviously. I'd take Mike Dunleavy Jr. from 2007 as reference here. He was massively overpaid back then according to every knowledgeable fan, but still, some Pacers fan claimed that he was earning his paycheck. It's analogous to Luol Deng: Everyone here knows, that he's overpaid, but Bulls fans, just like Pacers fans back in 2007 argue, that he deserves his paycheck.
Back to the point: Indiana like Cleveland isn't known to be attractive for free agents. You and DGrangerRx33 argued about the missing purpose of expirings (and I'm certain that I even included picks going to Indiana in one of those "Isiah Thomas <=> Tinsley, O'Neal, Murphy, Dunleavy" scenarios back then), if the franchise can't lure any considerable free agents. Tinsley, O'Neal, Murphy and Dunleavy are synonymous for Luol Deng here, and one Luol Deng definitely depreciates than those four albatross contracts above.

I assure you again, that I'm not creating a so called "man of straw" here, unfortunately RealGm has made every post before 2008 unavailable. My main evidence, respectively indication of my claim's validity would be, that Tinsley, Murphy and Dunleavy do all expire along with Crawford and Curry in 2011. I thought, that if things don't work out for Isiah Thomas by complementary pairing the jump shooting, defensive anchor O'Neal alongside the offensive man in the middle Eddy Curry, 2011 would be the time to call the experiment failed.

I found the stuborness of you and DGrangerRx33 mind boggling, as much as you find Chicago Bulls' fans' arguments, regarding the value of Luol Deng in this thread (only), unfounded. I emphasized the pressing need for Indiana, back in 2007, to rebuild by acquiring expirings and Isiah Thomas was known back then for making trades without any regards to New York's payroll (the Knicks' payroll was once at over $130 million during IT's tenure). DGrangerRx33 and you weren't ready to give up on your only star in Jermaine O'Neal (because of attendance worries), Danny Granger didn't resemble a starplayer at the end of the 2006 / 2007 season either.

All in all, you could argue that my claim isn't valid at all and maybe it comes down to one person's word against another's. Just don't be too harsh on Bulls fans if they try to sell Luol Deng to the world as a valuable basketball player, independently of his employer. I am a Bulls fan myself and take your side in this thread, that it doesn't make sense for Cleveland to acquire Deng in a sign and trade proposal for James. Nevertheless, you don't understand RealGM unless you realise that every fan is biased towards their own players, even you and DGrangerRx33 (see my sig).