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If Mitch Kupchak were Hawks GM? Attractive Franchise Survey

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Post#1 If Mitch Kupchak were Hawks GM? Attractive Fr
Thu Jul 7, 2011 7:18 pm by Ruhiel

If Mitch Kupchak were the Hawks GM and had to win a title AND boost attendance from TWENTY SECOND in the process which team would you field?

Team 1: Trade for D.Motiejunas, J.Hill, H.Thabeet
Team 2: Keep Pape Sy & Al Horford (10ppg career playoffs)

Team 1 - Triple Post Hawks w/ actual Post Defense and Scoring

PG - (Jeff Teague/36mpg,16ppg,6apg,3rpg) + (Kirk Hinrich/12mpg,3ppg,1.4apg,1rpg)
SG - (Joe Johnson/36mpg,16ppg,4rpg,4apg) + (Marvin Williams/12mpg,5ppg,2rpg,0.6apg)
SF - (Josh Smith/36mpg,16ppg,8rpg,3.5apg) + (Malcolm Thomas/12mpg,5ppg,2rpg,1apg)
PF - (Donatas Motiejunas/36mpg,16ppg,7rpg,3.5apg) + (Jordan Hill/12mpg,6ppg,5rpg,0.5apg)
C - (Hasheem Thabeet/26mpg,7ppg,7rpg,1.6bpg,0.4apg) + (Z. Pachulia/17mpg,5ppg,4.5rpg, 0.8apg)+(Hill/5mpg17mpg total^)

Totals: 96ppg, 43.5rpg, 21apg,

- 96ppg - 26th, same as last year
- 43.5rpg - 5th, 6th or 7th tied with Indiana Pacers, Orlando Magic, Houston Rockets
{28th last year (39.3rpg)}
- 21apg - 22 apg last year
+ better Defense Efficiency and same roster all year,
- BLOCKS
Hawks (28th in blocks last year) (341 total, tied with Celtics)
(- Horford's 80 blocks, 36mpg)
(-28, Josh Powell, Hilton Armstrong, Jason Collins, Damien Wilkins)
(- everyone's blocks in old roster)

(+243 blocks from reassigned minutes and remaining core)
(+220 blocks w/Hill + Thabeet (43mpg)
(+Thomas + Motiejunas = "X" blocks)
Triple Post Hawks BLOCKS
(463 total Blocks, tied with Bulls and Pacers)
5th in blocks {Thomas+Motiejunas excluded}

+ more room for Teague to drive, better screeners, more room for Smith to post and get leaner, more athleticism and problems for Noah and Boozer

Team 2 - Budget Hawks
Jeff Teague +Kirk Hinrich
Joe Johnson + Pape Sy
Josh Smith + Marvin Williams
Al Horford + Magnum Rolle/Joe Alexander (6'8, 250 lbs now, replaces Josh Powell)
Zaza Pachulia + (injury prone part time budget center - Kwame Brown/Omar Samhan/Aaron Gray/)

Team 2:
- last year 28th in blocks,
- 29th in steals, 28th in rebounding,
- 2nd to last in offensive rebounding,
- 29th in free throw attempts
- 25th in field goal attempts

- budget centers: Kwame Brown*-29yo, Jason Collins*-33yo, Aaron Gray-28yo, Omar Samhan*-22yo

Note: Atlanta Hawks have some of the worst fan support and attendance numbers and Coaches NOT FANS vote Horford in as an All Star Reserve.
::::::::
1. If Mitch Kupchak were and had to win a title and boost attendance in the process which team would you field? (Team 1= Retool Frontcourt, Team 2= Budget and Coaches Awards team)
2. If Magic Johnson were the lead guard and had to run point which team would he choose?

3. If Chris Paul were available for trade which team has more assets to A) attract Chris, B) conduct a trade and C) still have depth and talent to compete with CHI/MIA/NYK.

4. If Dwight Howard were available for trade which team has more assets to A) attract Dwight, B) conduct a trade and C) still have depth and talent to compete with CHI/MIA/NYK.

5. If you were a paying fan which team would you pay to see? :roll:
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Post#2 Re: If Mitch Kupchak/Don Nelson/Joe Dumars we
Thu Jul 7, 2011 8:18 pm by xRapHeadx

Depending on Thabeet to give you anything is fail waiting to happen.



Horford is overrated, but he sure as hell is better than Hill+Thabeet.
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Post#3 Re: If Mitch Kupchak/Don Nelson/Joe Dumars we
Thu Jul 7, 2011 8:45 pm by [RCG]

xRapHeadx wrote:Depending on Thabeet to give you anything is fail waiting to happen.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt
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Post#4 Re: If Mitch Kupchak/Don Nelson/Joe Dumars we
Fri Jul 8, 2011 12:43 am by Ruhiel

xRapHeadx wrote:Depending on [Rick Sund+Al Horford+Joe Alexander+Kwame Brown+Jason Collins] to give you anything is fail waiting to happen.


Image

lets pretend we can't afford/attain the services of Dwight, the Gasol Bros. and Brook Lopez w/ Dirk for filler.just for the lulz
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Post#5 Re: If Mitch Kupchak/Don Nelson/Joe Dumars we
Fri Jul 8, 2011 2:58 am by MambaTime

So, Kupchak traded for Kwame Brown and Dumars drafted Milicic. Any chance, they can both get on the budget squad?
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Post#6 Re: If Mitch Kupchak ran the Hawks? Attractiv
Fri Jul 8, 2011 5:19 pm by Ruhiel

one person already voted for the Samhan-Alexander-Horford-Pachulia Special :rofl:
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Post#7 Re: If Mitch Kupchak ran the Hawks? Attractiv
Sat Jul 9, 2011 12:25 am by x-

Triple Post Hawks, no doubt. :)
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Post#8 Re: If Mitch Kupchak ran the Hawks? Attractiv
Sat Jul 9, 2011 3:29 pm by Ruhiel

x- wrote:Triple Post Hawks, no doubt. :)

For all 5 questions?
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Post#9 Re: If Mitch Kupchak ran the Hawks? Attractiv
Sat Jul 9, 2011 7:11 pm by Devilzsidewalk

slow down there, talk to MN first. If you're looking for a WHALE of a deal for Horford, Wolves will give you Darko instead of Thabeet - Darko had more blocks last year than you project for Thabeet and he's cheaper. Beasley instead of Motiejunas - Beeeez is clearly a more offensively potent PF, and then the cherry on top: Anthony Randolph instead of Hill. Randolph has way more potential.
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Post#10 Re: If Mitch Kupchak ran the Hawks? Attractiv
Sat Jul 9, 2011 7:12 pm by tiderulz

no one is trading for Thabeet. He is worse than a Kwame bust.
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Post#11 Re: If Mitch Kupchak ran the Hawks? Attractiv
Sat Jul 9, 2011 9:40 pm by loserX

Why would anyone in their right minds think a Thabeet/Hill/euro-prospect would help them do anything in the playoffs short-term? Especially if you have the choice between them and Horford? Something tells me Atlanta fans aren't going to be shelling out for season's tickets to see any of those guys, either.
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Post#12 Re: If Mitch Kupchak ran the Hawks? Attractiv
Sat Jul 9, 2011 10:54 pm by Devilzsidewalk

I think trading a young all star for 3 known draft disappointments would be awesome. Although I'm not sure how much of a disappointment Motiejunas truly is since GMs realized he was a bust before the draft and he dropped a good 10-15 spots below initial projections.
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Post#13 Re: If Mitch Kupchak ran the Hawks? Attractiv
Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:59 am by Ruhiel

Devilzsidewalk wrote:slow down there, talk to MN first. If you're looking for a WHALE of a deal for Horford, Wolves will give you Darko instead of Thabeet - Darko had more blocks last year than you project for Thabeet and he's cheaper. Beasley instead of Motiejunas - Beeeez is clearly a more offensively potent PF, and then the cherry on top: Anthony Randolph instead of Hill. Randolph has way more potential.


Taj Gibson 14.3% WS/48 (CHI) - 6'10.7'4wingspan. energy defender
++Jordan 13.5% WS/48 (HOUSTON)- 6'10.7'2 wingspan. energy scorer+defense
post trade was motivated>>> 17mpg in ATL, from ATL

Stoudemire 13.4% WS/48 (NY)- 28yo, starter, scorer
+BROOK LOPEZ 11.4% WS/48 (CAREER) - SCORER

+JOSH SMITH 11.4% WS/48 (2011) - DEFENSE, Stretch 4/Post 3, Had less energy than last year
+Thabeet 10.9% WS/48 (ROOKIE) - 13mpg, 7'2.5 DEFENSE
- Horford 10.3% WS/48 (ROOKIE) - 31mpg, TWEENER*

Joe Johnson 9.7% WS/48 (CAREER)
Josh Smith 9.3% WS/48 (CAREER)
+Thabeet 9% WS/48 (CAREER)
---Jordan 8% WS/48 (CAREER)-unmotivated


rOY hIBBERT 7.7% WS/48 (CAREER)- 7'2 "Scorer"
Beasley 7% WS/48 (CAREER) CHUCKER, no defense
Randolph 6.9% WS/48 (CAREER) - "Scorer"
JASON COLLINS 6.6% WS/48 (CAREER)


I think trading in [Al Horford+Omar Samhan/injury prone Jason Collins/Aaron Gray] for 2 [miscast big men role players] and Motiejunas would be awesome.

Although I'm not sure how much of a disappointment Motiejunas truly is since GMs realized he was [not a center Defensively or Offensively] before the draft and he dropped 10-15 spots below initial projections.


:roll:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErN7wgVaU-E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8LmIWKq9_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfBMw3SAdG4#t=3m35s

The trade is made because Horford wont be facing any Charlie Villanueva's or Lou Amundsons in the playoffs.

His skills to size ratio does not translate to the playoffs (10ppg,9rpg for his career).
Only way to boost his post scoring would to play him at the 3. He's barely bigger than Josh Smith all the while less mobile
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Post#14 Re: If Mitch Kupchak ran the Hawks? Attractiv
Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:00 pm by TPV

Ruhiel wrote:1. If Mitch Kupchak were and had to win a title and boost attendance in the process which team would you field? (Team 1= Retool Frontcourt, Team 2= Budget and Coaches Awards team)
2. If Magic Johnson were the lead guard and had to run point which team would he choose?

3. If Chris Paul were available for trade which team has more assets to A) attract Chris, B) conduct a trade and C) still have depth and talent to compete with CHI/MIA/NYK.

4. If Dwight Howard were available for trade which team has more assets to A) attract Dwight, B) conduct a trade and C) still have depth and talent to compete with CHI/MIA/NYK.

5. If you were a paying fan which team would you pay to see? :roll:


1. Why does it matter if Mitch Kupchak were running the team if the question is directed to RealGM users? It's also problematic to think that "Team 2" is a budget team, considering it would most likely take on more committed player salaries than "Team 1". With that said, I'd choose Team 2.

2. I don't understand why it matters if Magic Johnson were playing - because he's not - and he'd obviously choose Team 2.

3. Chris Paul would not want to play with Hasheem Thabeet, so that rules Team 1 out. The Hawks have no assets to acquire Chris Paul unless they were giving up Teague and one of Horford or Smith plus multiple first round draft choices. That's not going to happen.

4. Ditto as question 3.

5. Neither, but if I had to choose it would be Team 2.

Also, your projections for Montiejunas are very ambitious (as well as Thabeet). If he were to achieve those statistical projections, he'd have to be Rookie of the Year :roll:
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Post#15 Re: If Mitch Kupchak ran the Hawks? Attractiv
Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:13 pm by Ruhiel

1. "Why does it matter if Mitch Kupchak were running the team if the question is directed to RealGM users?"
1. Because Rick Sund is running the team and has built it around adding more shooters when he already has a go to volume shooter in Joe Johnson, then Teague is underdeveloped because he's played off the ball and off the bench with the likes of Mo Evans and Damien Wilkins to complement his slashing for 2 years.
"It's also problematic to think that "Team 2" is a budget team, considering it would most likely take on more committed player salaries than "Team 1"."
Team 1 has been losing money and despite the athleticism of a few players they rank low in rebounding.
They have worse attendance than all but 7 teams in the NBA . They're a lock to make playoffs and then lose every year.


2 +3. I thought this was obvious, a floor general needs high percentage options on the floor and make their teammates better.
-Joe Johnson 6'8 shooting guard - fast break 3 pt.trailer, size advantage and guard skills= half court option. (backup: same)
- Josh Smith 6'8 forward - fast break: wing option, half court post/short corner option, wont need to make decisions or lead break anymore (backup: same)
-Donatas Motiejunas 7'1 forward screener, fast break: make decisions and lead break 3 pt.trailer, size advantage and guard skills= half court option. (backup: energy scorer)

-Hasheem Thabeet 7'2 center, down screener, fast break: start with Blocks, altering shots.
Half court- Down Screens, finish, tip ins, offensive boards, keeps the ball alive.
61% True Shooting before his sophomore years. After his minutes were nearly cut in half.
(backup: energy scorer)

////"Also, your projections for Montiejunas are very ambitious (as well as Thabeet). If he were to achieve those statistical projections, he'd have to be Rookie of the Year"

Not as ambitious as you think. Josh Smith and Joe Johnson are more talented passers than Houston or Memphis has on their roster and draw enough attention to get Thabeet guys tip ins and wide open paint looks.

Motiejunas is as versatile an offensive player as Josh Smith and has a polished jumper. At 7'1, 240 lbs with other forwards guarding him, able to post up or have Joe Johnson and Josh Smith slashing and posting up while he moves off the ball...Able to dribble in the post and slash at 7'1...

I think at PF with Joe Johnson and Josh Smith he MIGHT just get 4 points every 9 minutes, he does everything Al Horford tries to do )on offense) but better,

Edit: "3.5" assists per game not "5" for Motiejunas at power forward
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Post#16 Re: If Mitch Kupchak were Hawks GM? Attractiv
Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:10 am by #1 pick

Horford is better than anyone on the Hawks and has more potential than anyone on the Hawks as well.
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Post#17 Re: If Mitch Kupchak were Hawks GM? Attractiv
Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:43 pm by Ruhiel

#1 pick wrote:Horford is better than anyone on the Hawks and has more potential than anyone on the Hawks as well.


:lol: I'm assuming we're talking about offense here.
Potentially How many more games can he win us?

Offensive Win Shares 2010 Offensive Win Shares 2011
#1 LeBron James-CLE 13.3 #1 LeBron James-MIA 10.3
#2 Kevin Durant-OKC 11.1 #5 Kevin Durant-OKC 8.6
#4 Dwyane Wade-MIA 8.5 #7 Dwyane Wade-MIA 8.1
#5 Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 8.4 #9 Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 7.8 (34mpg)

#14 Al Horford-ATL 6.9 #20 Al Horford-ATL 6.4
#15 Pau Gasol-LAL 6.8 #2 Pau Gasol-LAL 10.0
#18 Dwight Howard-ORL 6.1 #14 Dwight Howard-ORL 6.7

Please, Al Horford has peaked as a speed center, his lack of speed and shot creation makes him expendable. He's not a volume shooting shot creator.
He's a big man facilitator ala Noah, just shorter.

Unless ATL plans on adding some HOF player's contracts to help Horford's offense with his 1 dimensional pick and pop and his need to be screened for (as a big man) :lol: he has peaked on offense.
Defensively? he won less games than Glen Davis's defense last year and Davis only played 30 mpg.

Unless we get superstar help, which is not even plausible at this point, he's peaked. We're basically relying on our guards to get him open looks on the perimeter because his shot in the pivot is too easily altered in the post.

Horford's not that type of Offensive "Potential" waiting to figure out how to play basketball. He went to college for 3 years and was pretty good iirc.
I'd rather the Hawks make the change to a Defensive Win unit before the opportunity passes.
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Post#18 Re: If Mitch Kupchak were Hawks GM? Attractiv
Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:09 pm by Scout Taron

The problem with this hypothetical is that it assumes that Motiejunas, Thabeet and Hill are any good.
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Post#19 Re: If Mitch Kupchak were Hawks GM? Attractiv
Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:27 pm by Starkiller

I can honestly say this thread confuses the hell out of me.
This ^
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Post#20 Re: If Mitch Kupchak were Hawks GM? Attractiv
Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:09 pm by Ruhiel

Scout Taron wrote:The problem with this hypothetical is that it assumes that Motiejunas [playing with Joe Johnson, Jeff Teague, and Josh Smith] can figure it out and Thabeet [can return to rookie form playing with Joe Johnson, Jeff Teague, and Josh Smith] and Hill [going to his hometown, can play a little close to what he did as a rookie for Houston OR Pachulia level] instead of Blatche level as a backup.

:-?
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