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Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)

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Post#1 Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:30 am by lukekarts

The Sacramento Rebuild.

Scenario: Trade deadline is approaching, the Kings are still at rock bottom and looking set for a top 5 pick in the draft. Evans, Cousins & co just aren't producing results, so it's time for them to go.

1. Cousins to Cleveland

Sacramento trade DeMarcus Cousins, plus John Salmons or Marcus Thornton

Cleveland trade: 2013 1st unprotected (3-6 range, conditional - see below), 2013 Sacramento pick returned


--> For Sacramento, this frees them of some salary on the perimeter ($20m invested in Salmons, Thornton, Garcia alone), especially important as they're brushing up against the cap, whilst getting a great return on Cousins - the pick will likely be top 6.

--> For Cleveland, this guarantees them a Center that is NBA proven, and is a great fit next to Thompson. Notably, they keep Varejao, so Thompson/Cousins/Varejao/Zeller is a deep C rotation, and either Thornton or Salmons are useful pieces. Cleveland only rise to $40m salary next season, with 9 players under contract (plus Miami's pick) so retain huge flexibility. The condition is that if Cleveland's pick lands higher than Sacramento's, Cleveland get Sacramento's pick, so risk on the pick is somewhat mitigated.

2. Evans to Atlanta

Sacramento Trade: Tyreke Evans, Francisco Garcia, (Travis Outlaw if required?)

Atlanta Trade: Devin Harris, Johan Petro, 2014 1st (varying levels of protection starting top 20, ending at lotto protected)


--> For Sacramento - they cut their losses with Evans, bringing in someone who can fill in at the backcourt, whilst potentially adding a future pick

--> For Atlanta - they need a SG badly, and Evans might thrive on a new team. Teague/Evans/Korver/Smtih/Horford. Garcia adds depth and has a Team Option for next season. Low risk, high reward - if Tyreke pans out they likely retain him and build from there; if he doesn't, they've effectively swapped expirers for expirers


3. Thompson to LAL (optional)

Sacramento trades: Jason Thompson

LA Lakers trade: Chris Duhon, Devin Ebanks

--> For Sacramento, they cut some more future salary, from a good rotation guy, but someone whom is ultimately replacable down the line.

--> For LA - they add a 10/7 guy who can play both 'big' positions, at the cost of two end of bench players who rarely feature.



Summary

Sacramento enter the 2013 off-season with + two top 5 picks. Estimated salary inc picks = $35m

Still a lot of work to do, but at least they get a chance at building something from scratch again.
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Post#2 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:49 am by MagicFan32

I'm not sure why the Kings would trade for more firsts and basically aknowledging Cousins and Evans were bad picks.

Cousins is a knucklehead, I wish the Spurs could find a way to get him, and then maybe he'd finally mature
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Post#3 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:49 am by becorz

Wow...all three trades are bad for the Kings.
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Post#4 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:20 pm by theatlfan

Not sure why Evans has all the sudden picked up value around here - I wouldn't give up expirings for him, so forth a 1st.

I would, however, have some interest in Garcia, but I wouldn't give up value for him either. Outside of Petro, I'm not sure what else I'd offer.
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Post#5 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:10 pm by Gilles

theatlfan wrote:...
I would, however, have some interest in Garcia, but I wouldn't give up value for him either. Outside of Petro, I'm not sure what else I'd offer.
You want Garcia? Done! And no takebacks! :D
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Post#6 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:22 pm by theatlfan

Gilles wrote:
theatlfan wrote:...
I would, however, have some interest in Garcia, but I wouldn't give up value for him either. Outside of Petro, I'm not sure what else I'd offer.
You want Garcia? Done! And no takebacks! :D
That's kind of the point. I know SAC is done with him and would give him away if their sole incentive was that they could cut even a few $100K off their books. I'd have no problem being on the other side of a deal like that, but I just can't see how to get to that few $100K figure since Garcia is @ $6.1M and Petro is @ $3.5M. Maybe a part of a bigger deal.
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Post#7 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:10 pm by gflem

If the Kings wanted to move Cousins to the Cavs with Thornton for their(Cavs) unprotected first and a return of the Kings first I would be all for it. Pairing Cousins with Kyrie would be a great fit. Getting Thornton would just be icing on the cake. Like the Op said the frontcourt for Cle would be deep and fit well together as well.
Right now the Cavs 2nd unit has to be the worst in the league, adding Thornton and putting either Andy or Thompson back on the 2nd team would strengthen that unit to the point where it might actually be above average. I think that team would certainly be competetive and be a playoff team next season in the East for sure.
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Post#8 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:16 pm by parson

ATL would have to decline. Evans is a talented player but he's not known for great outside shooting. Pairing him with Josh Smith would result in a REALLY bad outside shooting team. We'd have Jeff Teague from 3, Al Horford from midrange and .... nothing.

Actually, it'd be worse than nothing, since Evans and Smith would insist on putting it up.
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Post#9 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:25 pm by longfellow44

Terrible for the kings. All of it terrible.

IF the kings were looking to trade Cousins we could get a hell of a lot more.

I don't have a problem with the kings rebuilding but when the principle asset that the kings receive is caps space you know you have already failed. Last year the kings had the lowest salary in the entire league by a wide margin, we didn't do anything productive with that capspace. What makes you think that the kings could do anything with it in the future.
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Post#10 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:43 pm by Scoot McGroot

longfellow44 wrote:Terrible for the kings. All of it terrible.

IF the kings were looking to trade Cousins we could get a hell of a lot more.


Yup. Realistically, Cleveland would have to add either Zeller or Tristan to that package as well, and I think Cleveland would be happy to do one or the other.


Ultimately, why would Sacramento move Cousins if they are "rebuilding"? Seriously though, can it be called "rebuilding" if they're not even "built" yet? Keep Cousins, and move most anything else around them. Move Evans, as it looks like they may not resign him. Explore what you could get for Thompson and Thornton, but you don't have to move them. Same for Hayes and Outlaw. Be patient if you want to build that team right. You can't microwave success if you're the Kings.
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Post#11 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:46 am by theatlfan

I'm not sure I wouldn't trade Cousins if I were SAC. Sure, he's got a lot of potential, but he really needs to check himself. Too many times we've seen the scenario that a pampered young player never really reaches his full potential (in terms of leading a team) until he's ripped out of the womb. For a team struggling to get out of the cellar, the distractions that Cousins causes aren't something that can be ignored. I wouldn't necessarily sell cheap, but if a decent deal came along, then they really need to consider moving on and remodeling their strategy around Robinson - a high character guy that I could see a team getting behind if he can develop.
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Post#12 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:35 am by JB2

if the Kings want to "rebuild", they should move Evans, bring in vets, and build around Cousins. Not trade him.
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Post#13 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:29 am by lukekarts

longfellow44 wrote:Terrible for the kings. All of it terrible.

IF the kings were looking to trade Cousins we could get a hell of a lot more.

I don't have a problem with the kings rebuilding but when the principle asset that the kings receive is caps space you know you have already failed. Last year the kings had the lowest salary in the entire league by a wide margin, we didn't do anything productive with that capspace. What makes you think that the kings could do anything with it in the future.


So a guy who comes into the league as the 5th pick because of concerns about his character, who seemingly still has issues with suspensions, is now worth more than a top 5 pick, and returning of an owed pick, and the dumping of a salary. Why exactly? The principal asset is not capspace, it's a top 5 pick (Cleveland were 2-6 at time of typing and project to be bottom 5).

With regards to the capspace, it's not a case of 'doing something' with the capspace, it's simply about saving the franchise money and giving them future flexibility to facilitate trades.

Further point on the value - who exactly is going to be able to offer more value? Ruling out playoff teams on the up... there's Philly (they have Bynum anyway), Toronto (they have Jonas), Indiana (they have Hibbert and the prior era means no way they trade for Cousins), Detroit (they have Drummond/Monroe anyway), Charlotte (Sure they'd be interested, but what asset?), Orlando (sure they'd be interested, maybe their pick?), Washington (sure they'd be interested), Portland (can't see them moving LMA for him), GSW (just got Bogut), Phoenix (sure but what do they have to offer?), Dallas (sure but what do they have to offer?), Houston (sure but what do they have to offer?) and New Orleans (what do they offer?).

Honestly, there's maybe 2-3 teams that could offer a comparable package to Cleveland but I can't see anything better being looked at.

Scoot McGroot wrote:Ultimately, why would Sacramento move Cousins if they are "rebuilding"? Seriously though, can it be called "rebuilding" if they're not even "built" yet? Keep Cousins, and move most anything else around them. Move Evans, as it looks like they may not resign him. Explore what you could get for Thompson and Thornton, but you don't have to move them. Same for Hayes and Outlaw. Be patient if you want to build that team right. You can't microwave success if you're the Kings.


They move Cousins because clearly he doesn't have the right character for a team stuck at rock bottom. We've seen he already has had some issues with staff in Sacramento (the exact truth to which I guess we'll never find out), and by trading him for another top 5 pick, they can potentially replace him with a guy that is going to be more patient through the rebuilding process.
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Post#14 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:52 am by Dr Aki

lukekarts wrote:3. Thompson to LAL (optional)

Sacramento trades: Jason Thompson

LA Lakers trade: Chris Duhon, Devin Ebanks

--> For Sacramento, they cut some more future salary, from a good rotation guy, but someone whom is ultimately replacable down the line.

--> For LA - they add a 10/7 guy who can play both 'big' positions, at the cost of two end of bench players who rarely feature.


lakers say no. GOD NO, WTF there's no way the lakers take on all that salary without major incentive (i'm talking 1st rounders)
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Post#15 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:17 am by mcfly1204

Aki wrote:
lukekarts wrote:3. Thompson to LAL (optional)

Sacramento trades: Jason Thompson

LA Lakers trade: Chris Duhon, Devin Ebanks

--> For Sacramento, they cut some more future salary, from a good rotation guy, but someone whom is ultimately replacable down the line.

--> For LA - they add a 10/7 guy who can play both 'big' positions, at the cost of two end of bench players who rarely feature.


lakers say no. GOD NO, WTF there's no way the lakers take on all that salary without major incentive (i'm talking 1st rounders)

Thompson is on a reasonable deal and he is still only 26 years old. If anything, Sacramento is the party balking at that deal.
Well at least we're not Detroit!
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Post#16 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:42 am by gswhoops

There's literally no reason for the Kings to trade DMC unless they're getting a guy like LeBron or Durant in return. He's big, incredibly skilled and has shown flashes of absolute dominance. In a league this devoid of big men he has a good shot of being the second or third best center in the league.

All that and he's only 22. Even if you rebuild, build around him.
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Post#17 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:06 pm by becorz

lukekarts wrote:So a guy who comes into the league as the 5th pick because of concerns about his character, who seemingly still has issues with suspensions, is now worth more than a top 5 pick, and returning of an owed pick, and the dumping of a salary. Why exactly? The principal asset is not capspace, it's a top 5 pick (Cleveland were 2-6 at time of typing and project to be bottom 5).

If that's what Cousins is worth on the open market, then there is no incentive to trade him. We can keep a known quanity (Demarcus' 20 and 10) or trust the brain trust that drafted Quincy Douby to make a good pick. In a trade, I believe anyway, we need incentive to dump Demarcus. Your trade might be fair, but it isn't doesn't have enough incentive to dump him. Give us a reason to get rid of him. You just don't give us that reason.

Demarcus is not the reason the Kings are losing, they are losing because the team is poorly constructed around a bunch of me first players who can't shoot.

As far as trade value, Andrew Bynum, who is also a crazy person, just got traded for Dwight Howard. Rasheed Wallace when he was older and had worse stats was traded for Shareef Abdur Rahim and Theo Ratliff. Both of those trades offer up more value than you do here.
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Post#18 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:31 pm by longfellow44

lukekarts wrote:
longfellow44 wrote:Terrible for the kings. All of it terrible.

IF the kings were looking to trade Cousins we could get a hell of a lot more.

I don't have a problem with the kings rebuilding but when the principle asset that the kings receive is caps space you know you have already failed. Last year the kings had the lowest salary in the entire league by a wide margin, we didn't do anything productive with that capspace. What makes you think that the kings could do anything with it in the future.


So a guy who comes into the league as the 5th pick because of concerns about his character, who seemingly still has issues with suspensions, is now worth more than a top 5 pick, and returning of an owed pick, and the dumping of a salary. Why exactly? The principal asset is not capspace, it's a top 5 pick (Cleveland were 2-6 at time of typing and project to be bottom 5).

With regards to the capspace, it's not a case of 'doing something' with the capspace, it's simply about saving the franchise money and giving them future flexibility to facilitate trades.

Further point on the value - who exactly is going to be able to offer more value? Ruling out playoff teams on the up... there's Philly (they have Bynum anyway), Toronto (they have Jonas), Indiana (they have Hibbert and the prior era means no way they trade for Cousins), Detroit (they have Drummond/Monroe anyway), Charlotte (Sure they'd be interested, but what asset?), Orlando (sure they'd be interested, maybe their pick?), Washington (sure they'd be interested), Portland (can't see them moving LMA for him), GSW (just got Bogut), Phoenix (sure but what do they have to offer?), Dallas (sure but what do they have to offer?), Houston (sure but what do they have to offer?) and New Orleans (what do they offer?).

Honestly, there's maybe 2-3 teams that could offer a comparable package to Cleveland but I can't see anything better being looked at.

Scoot McGroot wrote:Ultimately, why would Sacramento move Cousins if they are "rebuilding"? Seriously though, can it be called "rebuilding" if they're not even "built" yet? Keep Cousins, and move most anything else around them. Move Evans, as it looks like they may not resign him. Explore what you could get for Thompson and Thornton, but you don't have to move them. Same for Hayes and Outlaw. Be patient if you want to build that team right. You can't microwave success if you're the Kings.


They move Cousins because clearly he doesn't have the right character for a team stuck at rock bottom. We've seen he already has had some issues with staff in Sacramento (the exact truth to which I guess we'll never find out), and by trading him for another top 5 pick, they can potentially replace him with a guy that is going to be more patient through the rebuilding process.


Also lets be clear on a few things.

If cousins is added to the Cavs roster they won't be a lotto team. That pick will be worth way less. Cousins with a halfway decent team around him will be worth his weight in gold.

Secondly you act like your doing the kings a favor by giving us our pick back. The pick that the cavs will actually get to collect on is likely to be a 2nd rounder. The protection that the kings put on that pick was such that if we don't start improving soon you guys won't be getting a first rounder from us.

And yes Cousins is worth more than a top 5 pick in the draft right now. Attitude and all he is worth a top 2 pick for sure and probably the number one pick in most drafts. Talent and size like his doesn't grow on trees.
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Post#19 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:25 pm by Dr Aki

mcfly1204 wrote:
Aki wrote:
lukekarts wrote:3. Thompson to LAL (optional)

Sacramento trades: Jason Thompson

LA Lakers trade: Chris Duhon, Devin Ebanks

--> For Sacramento, they cut some more future salary, from a good rotation guy, but someone whom is ultimately replacable down the line.

--> For LA - they add a 10/7 guy who can play both 'big' positions, at the cost of two end of bench players who rarely feature.


lakers say no. GOD NO, WTF there's no way the lakers take on all that salary without major incentive (i'm talking 1st rounders)

Thompson is on a reasonable deal and he is still only 26 years old. If anything, Sacramento is the party balking at that deal.


lol @reasonable deal

the lakers aren't made of dollar bills
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Post#20 Re: Sacramento Rebuild (CLE / ATL / LAL)
Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:50 pm by ntsap

I agree from an outsiders' view as an outsider do you to build a team around va crazy ass? But I also get the point of a kings fan cousins is to good and that team has to be the worst constructive team ever. Pgs full of chuckers and trob and cousins have the same skill.set and the bench...don't get me started. Basically there want be any improvement of the roster fit wise until the maloofs get what they want a new city for theirffranchise :(.
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