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LAL Gets J.Smith... CHA/BKN/LAL/ATL

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Post#31 Re: LAL Gets J.Smith... CHA/BKN/LAL/ATL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:35 pm by Chuck Texas

doesnt TEague have a really small cap hold? So couldnt Atl make their other moves official first and sign Teague last after having already worked out a contract but simply not signing it until the other moves are done? Unless I am missing something here that should end any discussion that Atl isnt going to have room to sign Smith and another big FA.
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Post#32 Re: LAL Gets J.Smith... CHA/BKN/LAL/ATL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:43 pm by Prokys Nets

Trader_Joe wrote:
Trader_Joe wrote:Done after December 15th

EDITED

-L.Williams removed
-M. Brooks to Atlanta
-Childress and #1 back to BK




Atlanta trades:
J.Smith
$13.2m outgoing
for
Diop, M. Brooks POR #1, Rights to Karaman, LAL #2, $5mTPE
$8.3m incoming

Teague / Harris
Brooks / L.Williams / Jenkins
Korver / Stevenson / Morrow
Horford / I.Johnson / Tolliver / Scott
Pachullia / Petro / Diop

Atlanta goes into full on tank mode. They shed all their salary past this season, except for Al Horford and the roughly $1.6m they owe to rookies Jenkins and Scott. They gain nearly $10m in instant savings/TPE as well as 2 1st rounders. A top 12 protected PDX #1, an unprotected BK #1 and the rights to a Euro PF in Karaman. They also avoid losing Smith for nothing next summer to a team like Dallas or someone else willing to throw him a big contract

BK trades:
Humphries, Wallace, M.Brooks Rights to Karaman
$22.6m outgoing
for
Gasol, MWP
$26.3m incoming

D.Williams / Watson / Taylor
J.Johnson / Bogans / Stackhouse
MWP / Childress / Shengelia
Gasol / Evans / Teletovic
Lopez / Blatche

Brooklyn continues to add salary and talent. They hope that Gasol can be an appropriate compliment with Lopez and that MWP keeps his head on straight in NYC.


LAL trades:
Gasol, MWP, Jamison, MEM #2, '16 #2
$27.2m outgoing
for
Smith, G.Wallace, Ty.Thomas
$31m incoming

Nash / Blake / Duhon
Bryant / Meeks / Morris
G.Wallace / Ebanks / D.Odom
J.Smith / Clark / Ty Thomas
Howard / Hill / Sacre

The rich continue to get richer with a larger and larger payroll. If they want Smith, it means they would want to resign him and Dwight after this season so the contracts of Wallace and TyThomas seem harmless as it does not look like they would have been players in free agency anyway, especially if the is to win now.


CHA trades:
Ty Thomas, Diop, POR #1
$15.4m outgoing
for
Humphries, Jamison, MEM #2
$12.9m incoming

Walker / Sessions / Higgins
Gordon / Henderson
MKG / R.Williams / Taylor
Humphries / Jamison / Warrick
Mullens / Biyombo / Haywood

Charlotte was looking at signing Humphries this summer, so it seems they like him. He would be a nice rebounding compliment to Mullens and expire after next season like Gordon does as they combine for about $25m in expriers. Most importantly shed the contract of Tyrus Thomas who continues to be a massive disappointment. Lou Williams adds some more experience and scoring to the back court. They also add local product Jamison for some mentoring.


The Lakers are sucking the value out.
Best I could do was the edited version.


Again nice idea, but if the Nets are giving up all of that WE better be getting josh smith, and not helping LA to steal him.
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Post#33 Re: LAL Gets J.Smith... CHA/BKN/LAL/ATL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:56 pm by Trader_Joe

Yeah, I'm beginning to think it can't work simply because LA doesn't have enough value. And Atlanta only feels compelled to move Smith if he has made it clear he wants out, with no interest to resign. Brooklyn and Charlotte are certainly not adding more value. The key is getting as much value as possible for Gasol. I saw an Indy fan willing to do granger and west for Gasol. Maybe they should be in there instead of BK.
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Post#34 Re: LAL Gets J.Smith... CHA/BKN/LAL/ATL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:56 pm by MagicFan32

Josh Smith can't sign in LA as a free agent, he has no leverage, really there's nowhere for him to go this summer
then again the league is rigged so i'm sure the lakers can get him for crap
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Post#35 Re: LAL Gets J.Smith... CHA/BKN/LAL/ATL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:09 pm by Trader_Joe

MagicFan32 wrote:Josh Smith can't sign in LA as a free agent, he has no leverage, really there's nowhere for him to go this summer
then again the league is rigged so i'm sure the lakers can get him for crap

He has leverage in that he's an unrestricted free agent and Atlanta would have less options this summer wince they can't trade him to a tax paying team. And he could sign with Dallas, NO, Washington, Charlotte, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Detroit, Utah and potentially other teams depending on what they do before free agency.

Meanwhile Dwight had the same amount of leverage to go to the Lakers and he still got there.
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Post#36 Re: LAL Gets J.Smith... CHA/BKN/LAL/ATL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:47 pm by eliasrapp98

I say yes. It isn't perfect, but it is good enough for it to be realistic.
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Post#37 Re: LAL Gets J.Smith... CHA/BKN/LAL/ATL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:08 pm by theatlfan

ATL Boy wrote:
theatlfan wrote:Late lotto and Brooks for Smoove? I'd prefer to chance FA with Smoove.

If come the trade deadline Smoove wants out (which I don't think he will) or if he starts playing games (like Dwight) then I'd take a lotto and Brooks for Josh. If we traded Josh then we'd also have a lotto pick, maybe we get lucky with one of the picks and end up top 3, even if we don't end up with a top 3 pick then we'd have 2 lotto picks with which to rebuild, we'd also have the Houston pick. we could potentially package the Portland pick or our pick for a potential chance at someone like Nerlens Noel
If Smoove starts demanding out, then yes, his value drops. At this point though, we've really given him everything he's wanted and he seems really happy. The fact is that if I'm dealing a happy (or even if he's just not obviously disgruntled) Smoove, then I want an young talent with the chance to make a impact. I couldn't care less about a lot of rotation players and/or late lottos when discussing Smoove. Historically, late lottos have only a slightly larger chance of sticking on an NBA roster than a 2nd round pick; Brooks has 6th MotY upside, but even that is still a rotation player. Those only have real worth if you're willing to undergo a true rebuilding effort and I'm not sure we're willing to do that.

Honestly, I'd rather get nothing for Smoove and ensure the high pick to get the impact talent eventually over pulling off a deal where we get enough to challenge for an 8th seed.


Trader_Joe wrote:
MagicFan32 wrote:Josh Smith can't sign in LA as a free agent, he has no leverage, really there's nowhere for him to go this summer
then again the league is rigged so i'm sure the lakers can get him for crap

He has leverage in that he's an unrestricted free agent and Atlanta would have less options this summer wince they can't trade him to a tax paying team. And he could sign with Dallas, NO, Washington, Charlotte, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Detroit, Utah and potentially other teams depending on what they do before free agency.

Meanwhile Dwight had the same amount of leverage to go to the Lakers and he still got there.
One thing that has to be understood here: an SNT scenario could be our best scenario regardless of whether Smoove wants to stay or not. At that point, there's no question that the signing team would both want him, have him under contract, and at a salary they're comfortable with. Sure, there could be some teams that could be far enough under the cap that they could sign him without pulling a SNT, but that list is much smaller than you make it out to be if you're listing above is any indication. Not all of those teams currently have the cap room to offer a max or near max deal and I couldn't see some of those teams being of interest to Smoove.

As for the D12 comp, I don't see it. ORL's and ATL's situations are just too different - as is Smoove's and D12's since D12 is a definite max guy. I can see why the parallel would be drawn, but I can't see the actual fit.
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Post#38 Re: LAL Gets J.Smith... CHA/BKN/LAL/ATL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:09 pm by parson

For those sure Smith is leaving, here's a little something from the Twitter account of Steve Kyler of Hoopsworld:
Steve Kyler at Hoopsworld wrote: Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA
RT @ if ATL wanted to trade Smith then what players would they want in return? ---> They are not exploring this at all.


10h Steve Kyler Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA
RT @JaySway52: ---> The Hawks stance could change at the trade deadline, but all parties say a new deal this summer is all but assured.


10h Steve Kyler Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA
RT @JaySway52: ---> What the Lakers want is immaterial if the other team has no interest in a deal. Hawks are building around Josh Smith


10h Steve Kyler Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA
RT @JaySway52: Are the Lakers considering a Josh Smith for Pau Gasol type trade? ---> Hawks have zero interest in a Josh Smith trade

Link = https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA Scan down for it.
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Post#39 Re: LAL Gets J.Smith... CHA/BKN/LAL/ATL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:16 pm by Trader_Joe

parson wrote:For those sure Smith is leaving, here's a little something from the Twitter account of Steve Kyler of Hoopsworld:
Steve Kyler at Hoopsworld wrote: Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA
RT @ if ATL wanted to trade Smith then what players would they want in return? ---> They are not exploring this at all.


10h Steve Kyler Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA
RT @JaySway52: ---> The Hawks stance could change at the trade deadline, but all parties say a new deal this summer is all but assured.


10h Steve Kyler Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA
RT @JaySway52: ---> What the Lakers want is immaterial if the other team has no interest in a deal. Hawks are building around Josh Smith


10h Steve Kyler Steve Kyler ‏@stevekylerNBA
RT @JaySway52: Are the Lakers considering a Josh Smith for Pau Gasol type trade? ---> Hawks have zero interest in a Josh Smith trade

Link = https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA Scan down for it.


What is Kyler's connection to the Hawks?
Those are all his tweets.
Are there any Atlanta beat writers that have been passing along info?
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Post#40 Re: LAL Gets J.Smith... CHA/BKN/LAL/ATL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:21 pm by Trader_Joe

theatlfan wrote:
ATL Boy wrote:
theatlfan wrote:Late lotto and Brooks for Smoove? I'd prefer to chance FA with Smoove.

If come the trade deadline Smoove wants out (which I don't think he will) or if he starts playing games (like Dwight) then I'd take a lotto and Brooks for Josh. If we traded Josh then we'd also have a lotto pick, maybe we get lucky with one of the picks and end up top 3, even if we don't end up with a top 3 pick then we'd have 2 lotto picks with which to rebuild, we'd also have the Houston pick. we could potentially package the Portland pick or our pick for a potential chance at someone like Nerlens Noel
If Smoove starts demanding out, then yes, his value drops. At this point though, we've really given him everything he's wanted and he seems really happy. The fact is that if I'm dealing a happy (or even if he's just not obviously disgruntled) Smoove, then I want an young talent with the chance to make a impact. I couldn't care less about a lot of rotation players and/or late lottos when discussing Smoove. Historically, late lottos have only a slightly larger chance of sticking on an NBA roster than a 2nd round pick; Brooks has 6th MotY upside, but even that is still a rotation player. Those only have real worth if you're willing to undergo a true rebuilding effort and I'm not sure we're willing to do that.

Honestly, I'd rather get nothing for Smoove and ensure the high pick to get the impact talent eventually over pulling off a deal where we get enough to challenge for an 8th seed.


Trader_Joe wrote:
MagicFan32 wrote:Josh Smith can't sign in LA as a free agent, he has no leverage, really there's nowhere for him to go this summer
then again the league is rigged so i'm sure the lakers can get him for crap

He has leverage in that he's an unrestricted free agent and Atlanta would have less options this summer wince they can't trade him to a tax paying team. And he could sign with Dallas, NO, Washington, Charlotte, Cleveland, Milwaukee, Detroit, Utah and potentially other teams depending on what they do before free agency.

Meanwhile Dwight had the same amount of leverage to go to the Lakers and he still got there.
One thing that has to be understood here: an SNT scenario could be our best scenario regardless of whether Smoove wants to stay or not. At that point, there's no question that the signing team would both want him, have him under contract, and at a salary they're comfortable with. Sure, there could be some teams that could be far enough under the cap that they could sign him without pulling a SNT, but that list is much smaller than you make it out to be if you're listing above is any indication. Not all of those teams currently have the cap room to offer a max or near max deal and I couldn't see some of those teams being of interest to Smoove.

As for the D12 comp, I don't see it. ORL's and ATL's situations are just too different - as is Smoove's and D12's since D12 is a definite max guy. I can see why the parallel would be drawn, but I can't see the actual fit.

You're not getting any win now pieces..its Brooks, picks and savings. This deal ensures a very good pick.

Also you can sign an trade but your limited to non tax paying teams, and teams that can afford him wont give you anything. Sign and trades don't give that 5th year anymore either.
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Post#41 Re: LAL Gets J.Smith... CHA/BKN/LAL/ATL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:27 pm by parson

Trader_Joe wrote:What is Kyler's connection to the Hawks?
Those are all his tweets.
Are there any Atlanta beat writers that have been passing along info?

I hear ya. And, personally, I greatly prefer your gut feeling over some sportswriter from Hoopsworld who goes to "all parties" and asks them.

As for the Atlanta writers, yeah, they've already printed what you're asking about -- and I've quoted them on this board. It's just that no one seems to want to believe them.
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Post#42 Re: LAL Gets J.Smith... CHA/BKN/LAL/ATL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:02 pm by theatlfan

Trader_Joe wrote:You're not getting any win now pieces..its Brooks, picks and savings. This deal ensures a very good pick.

Also you can sign an trade but your limited to non tax paying teams, and teams that can afford him wont give you anything. Sign and trades don't give that 5th year anymore either.

Not necessarily looking for "win now" pieces; MKG is an impact talent that isn't necessarily a win now piece. Not saying I expect to land an MKG, but if Smoove is on the table, then I expect someone to bring quality pieces to the table over late lottos and a nice 6th man prospect. If LAL can find that for Gasol and are willing to send those pieces back to us, then fine, I have no problem sending Smoove to LAL. If not, then sorry - the Hawks don't exist to be someone else's Developmental Squad.
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Post#43 Re: LAL Gets J.Smith... CHA/BKN/LAL/ATL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:51 pm by Kobe System

MagicFan32 wrote:Josh Smith can't sign in LA as a free agent, he has no leverage, really there's nowhere for him to go this summer
then again the league is rigged so i'm sure the lakers can get him for crap


Then CP3 trade happened. :roll:
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Post#44 Re: LAL Gets J.Smith... CHA/BKN/LAL/ATL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:00 pm by old rem

The Nets have emough of guys past 30 with monster contracts. If the Lakers can get them to take on Pau...they sure can't attach Artest and the Nets won't be tossing in a Rd 1. The Bobs might be okay with this, but it's weak for ATL and if the Nets bail...and they should....then how are the Lakers dumping all the salary so they can grab all the good stuff?
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Post#45 Re: LAL Gets J.Smith... CHA/BKN/LAL/ATL
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:28 pm by SuperflyKnick

the lakers have been pretty lucky with all the players they been able to get but i think the league will finally notice its time not to bend over for LA
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