Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum

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Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#1 » by killacalijatt » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:53 am

Harrison Barnes/RJ
for
Batum

Warriors get more of a contributor that could fit in nicely with there current core.

Blazers continue the rebuild by aquiring Barnes. Let Barnes/Lilliard grow together. Maybe ship LMA next and continue the rebuild.
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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#2 » by Baddy Chuck » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:05 am

I'd easily pass if I was GS.
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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#3 » by lakerhater » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:18 am

No reason to mess with GSW's mojo right now. Keep Barnes and let him develop. The Barnes/Green SF combo is doing just fine as is.
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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#4 » by BizGilwalker » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:34 am

The Blazers are the one to pass. Where's the evidence Barnes will ever be as good as Batum? Particularly on offense. I still have my doubts about both players, but Batum is far better defensively, and while Barnes will be on a rookie contract for the next four years, Jefferson's contract essentially cancels any salary relief.
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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#5 » by gswhoops » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:32 pm

Less than zero interest in this deal for GS. Batum is a nice player but Barnes has the potential to be something special.
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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#6 » by Jack wore plaid » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:02 pm

Portland is sending out the best player in this deal by far. there is no evidence that Barnes will ever be as good as Batum
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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#7 » by old rem » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:35 pm

lakerhater wrote:No reason to mess with GSW's mojo right now. Keep Barnes and let him develop. The Barnes/Green SF combo is doing just fine as is.


Agree. GTSW has a guy in Barnes who they likely think becomes as good...or better..than Batum. Barnes won't get old or costly any time soon. R Jeff...will be gone soon enough
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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#8 » by TheOUTLAW » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:49 pm

What in the world has Barnes done to be considered worth Batum (who while slightly overpaid he's shown significantly more).
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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#9 » by turk3d » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:22 pm

TheOUTLAW wrote:What in the world has Barnes done to be considered worth Batum (who while slightly overpaid he's shown significantly more).

Seems more well rounded as a player and is on a rookie deal for a few seasons and Batum is on an ugly contract for quite a few. I would think that Barnes would be a better fit on a rebuilding team like it turns out Portland is. Batum makes more sense on a "win-now" team which is why this trade does have some merit although I wouldn't do it (I like our cap position as it currently stands and I also like what I've seen from Barnes a lot).
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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#10 » by Chris Porter's Hair » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:07 pm

Jack wore plaid wrote:Portland is sending out the best player in this deal by far. there is no evidence that Barnes will ever be as good as Batum

There is seldom evidence of the future.
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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#11 » by DeBlazerRiddem » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:36 pm

turk3d wrote:
TheOUTLAW wrote:What in the world has Barnes done to be considered worth Batum (who while slightly overpaid he's shown significantly more).

Seems more well rounded as a player and is on a rookie deal for a few seasons and Batum is on an ugly contract for quite a few. I would think that Barnes would be a better fit on a rebuilding team like it turns out Portland is. Batum makes more sense on a "win-now" team which is why this trade does have some merit although I wouldn't do it (I like our cap position as it currently stands and I also like what I've seen from Barnes a lot).



Batum is about as rounded a player as they come. Can defense, can block, can steal, can shoot, can pass, can rebound. Not sure how much rounder you can get. A comparison I always liked was with Prince.

Honestly, I thought there were some similarities between the two during the draft. Like Batum, Barnes needs some work on his energy and consistency.

I think this deal makes sense if GS doesn't feel like waiting on his development, which could be important if they wanna make the most of Bogut. If Batum is just a more developed Barnes, then they basically get instant development by welding him with Jefferson. Portland isn't going to throw more into the mix than taking on a bad contract, but that is a deal that could interest us, especially if an Aldridge trade goes down (it would be hard to trade Batum for an undeveloped version and tell Aldridge we are getting better).

If GS wants to wait on Barnes development, and possibly miss having him and Bogut on the floor at the same time because they think he will be significantly better than Batum, then I suppose that is understandable. As I said, Portland wont offer sweetener besides taking on Jefferson, so in that case there's probably no deal to be made.
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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#12 » by Wizenheimer » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:37 pm

turk3d wrote:
TheOUTLAW wrote:What in the world has Barnes done to be considered worth Batum (who while slightly overpaid he's shown significantly more).

Seems more well rounded as a player and is on a rookie deal for a few seasons and Batum is on an ugly contract for quite a few.


I don't know about the "well-rounded" stuff. The only thing Barnes appears to d better then Batum is rebound, but a 9.7% vs 9.2% rebound rate advantage is not that significant. Batum is ahead in just about every other raw, per36, & advanced metric. And he's a better defender. Of course, you'd expect that to be true in most numbers when comparing a rookie and a veteran

as far as Batum's contract, it's worth noting that 20 other SG's/SF's make more then Batum, and 3 others (Steven Jackson, AK47, Gallo) have pretty similar salaries.

generically, he's overpaid, a bit, but relative to the NBA and his position it's not that "ugly". It's just Portland's misfortune to have had a player that Minnesota coveted so highly. The David Kahn effect. Look for the Blazers to return the favor and make an uncomfortable (for Minny) offer to Pekovic this summer


I would think that Barnes would be a better fit on a rebuilding team like it turns out Portland is. Batum makes more sense on a "win-now" team which is why this trade does have some merit although I wouldn't do it (I like our cap position as it currently stands and I also like what I've seen from Barnes a lot).


that's probably pretty accurate. And at the risk of offending GS fans, it's probably the case that's it's a bit too early for the Warriors to be looking for any "win-now" pieces. GS is hot right now, but even great teams have trouble sustaining "hot" for an entire season. If GS actually make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs this season that will be a major success. They'll probably have to endure one year of luxury tax hell next year, then they should be in good shape going forward once the RJ and AB contracts expire

I can't remember: who did the Warriors use the amnesty clause on?
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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#13 » by gswhoops » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:16 pm

Wizenheimer wrote:I can't remember: who did the Warriors use the amnesty clause on?

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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#14 » by turk3d » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:31 pm

We're not going into cap hell (could be a few mil over worse case) if we don't do this deal (both Jefferson and Biedrins will be expirings next year so chances of trading either one or both pretty good). There's a good chance we can get under depending on how well we do this year (if we make the playoffs and do a decent job there owner has the money and the wherewithal to spend it) especially with the following year a bunch coming off the books including Bogut if he doesn't pan out.

The idea of being able to "win now" and rebuild as well (done through draft picks) is a quite appealing one with guys like Barnes coming of age (it will be his 3rd year and still on a rookie deal) with all that promise rather than a 40M dollar man like Batum. He's not going to win us any rings either but will hurt our cap drastically for the next 4 years.
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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#15 » by Wizenheimer » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:36 pm

turk3d wrote:We're not going into cap hell (could be a few mil over worse case) if we don't do this deal (both Jefferson and Biedrins will be expirings next year so chances of trading either one or both pretty good). There's a good chance we can get under depending on how well we do this year (if we make the playoffs and do a decent job there owner has the money and the wherewithal to spend it) especially with the following year a bunch coming off the books including Bogut if he doesn't pan out.

The idea of being able to "win now" and rebuild as well (done through draft picks) is a quite appealing one with guys like Barnes coming of age (it will be his 3rd year and still on a rookie deal) with all that promise rather than a 40M dollar man like Batum. He's not going to win us any rings either but will hurt our cap drastically for the next 4 years.


I think you're overstating about Batum "hurting your cap drastically". This trade would get GS under the tax threshold this year, if they aren't already. And it would get them under next season, assuming no additional moves. That would leave a couple of seasons, but as of now, the Warriors only have a bit over 30 million guaranteed for both of those last two seasons of the Batum deal

the first issue I see is what to do about Jarret Jack. He's been a pretty good bench player for the Warriors. Having a competent, experienced PG is pretty important for a playoff team. But, unless the Warriors can clear a 'bad' contract, Jack could 2.5-2.7 times what the nominal value of his salary is. A 4 million salary could cost the warriors a minimum of 10 million
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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#16 » by turk3d » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:31 pm

Jack is just on the books for 4M next year (his option). Same exact thing with Rush who we'd probably like to bring back as well. Everything will depend on what happens this year. If we continue to do well and make a decent playoff run, the chances are that we'll probably go into the tax but not by much. At least it will be our option.

Add the additional two years on Batum's contract and it's no longer an option. At least after next year we'll be in a position to start over (with some very nice young pieces including Curry and Lee) if we choose to do so with some cap money we can use on a FA or two.

If we did this trade and we went for Batum, it's no longer our option and unless we thought that he would be enough to get us in the mix for a potential ring, I personally would be against it. It's just not worth it to me to get bounced out in a few rounds. I just don't see Batum improving us enough to make this trade. Perhaps down the road if we hit a tailspin and Barnes starts looking rather ordinary, I'd reconsider, but definitely not now.
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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#17 » by gswhoops » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:51 pm

I think it's time to let this one die. Neither side likes it.
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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#18 » by Baddy Chuck » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:55 pm

TheOUTLAW wrote:What in the world has Barnes done to be considered worth Batum (who while slightly overpaid he's shown significantly more).

Remember when a rookie Batum couldn't be inserted into any trades at all? Remember when he was Scottie Pippen 2.0?

I'm sorry but you're fan base should know the reservations about trading young guys.
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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#19 » by Wizenheimer » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:26 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
TheOUTLAW wrote:What in the world has Barnes done to be considered worth Batum (who while slightly overpaid he's shown significantly more).

Remember when a rookie Batum couldn't be inserted into any trades at all? Remember when he was Scottie Pippen 2.0?

I'm sorry but you're fan base should know the reservations about trading young guys.


I don't think you're talking to a Blazer fan. I can't recall ever seeing him post on the Blazer forum, so chances are, he's expressing that view from a non-blazer fan perspective

you might want to get your generalizations straight before condemning an entire fan base
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Re: Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum 

Post#20 » by F1uxCapacit0r » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:50 am

Non Blazer non Warrior fan here. In no way would I ever trade Batum for Barnes and RJ...

Batum is a top 5 SF in the league, quality 2 way player, well rounded player and I dont think he is overpayed at all.

11.5 a year for a young and still improving player top 5 at his postion makes 0 sense

Any benefit GS would have due to Batums contract is negated with RJ terrible contract.

This is an easy no from Portland

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