Warriors/Blazers Barnes for Batum

[turk3d]

Jack is just on the books for 4M next year (his option). Same exact thing with Rush who we'd probably like to bring back as well. Everything will depend on what happens this year. If we continue to do well and make a decent playoff run, the chances are that we'll probably go into the tax but not by much. At least it will be our option.

Add the additional two years on Batum's contract and it's no longer an option. At least after next year we'll be in a position to start over (with some very nice young pieces including Curry and Lee) if we choose to do so with some cap money we can use on a FA or two.

If we did this trade and we went for Batum, it's no longer our option and unless we thought that he would be enough to get us in the mix for a potential ring, I personally would be against it. It's just not worth it to me to get bounced out in a few rounds. I just don't see Batum improving us enough to make this trade. Perhaps down the road if we hit a tailspin and Barnes starts looking rather ordinary, I'd reconsider, but definitely not now.

[gswhoops]

I think it's time to let this one die. Neither side likes it.

[Baddy Chuck]

What in the world has Barnes done to be considered worth Batum (who while slightly overpaid he's shown significantly more).

Remember when a rookie Batum couldn't be inserted into any trades at all? Remember when he was Scottie Pippen 2.0?

I'm sorry but you're fan base should know the reservations about trading young guys.

[Wizenheimer]

What in the world has Barnes done to be considered worth Batum (who while slightly overpaid he's shown significantly more).

Remember when a rookie Batum couldn't be inserted into any trades at all? Remember when he was Scottie Pippen 2.0?

I'm sorry but you're fan base should know the reservations about trading young guys.

I don't think you're talking to a Blazer fan. I can't recall ever seeing him post on the Blazer forum, so chances are, he's expressing that view from a non-blazer fan perspective

you might want to get your generalizations straight before condemning an entire fan base

[F1uxCapacit0r]

Non Blazer non Warrior fan here. In no way would I ever trade Batum for Barnes and RJ...

Batum is a top 5 SF in the league, quality 2 way player, well rounded player and I dont think he is overpayed at all.

11.5 a year for a young and still improving player top 5 at his postion makes 0 sense

Any benefit GS would have due to Batums contract is negated with RJ terrible contract.

This is an easy no from Portland

[F1uxCapacit0r]

and SF is the shallowest position in the NBA...

[TGW]

Less than zero interest in this deal for GS. Batum is a nice player but Barnes has the potential to be something special.

Honestly, no he doesn't. He lacks killer instinct IMO.

[TheOUTLAW]

What in the world has Barnes done to be considered worth Batum (who while slightly overpaid he's shown significantly more).

Remember when a rookie Batum couldn't be inserted into any trades at all? Remember when he was Scottie Pippen 2.0?

I'm sorry but you're fan base should know the reservations about trading young guys.

I don't think you're talking to a Blazer fan. I can't recall ever seeing him post on the Blazer forum, so chances are, he's expressing that view from a non-blazer fan perspective

you might want to get your generalizations straight before condemning an entire fan base

Thank you because I have no idea what he's blathering on about.

[lukekarts]

Batum has jumped straight back into the 'overrated' box here on realgm. He's a solid player, sure, but he's not a top 5 SF. People need to drop that argument already.

Now, the deal makes some sense for Portland, because Barnes could potentially be as good as Batum (if not better); considering he's started out OK as a rookie, at least better than I expected. RJeff expires next year, so Portland gain a lot more cap flexibility, which they need, as right now they don't quite have enough to work with, in order to get significantly better.

But, no idea why GSW would do this, because it's not like Curry & Thompson are at their peak right now, and its not exactly a home run deal either.

[Wizenheimer]

Batum has jumped straight back into the 'overrated' box here on realgm. He's a solid player, sure, but he's not a top 5 SF. People need to drop that argument already.

Now, the deal makes some sense for Portland, because Barnes could potentially be as good as Batum (if not better); considering he's started out OK as a rookie, at least better than I expected. RJeff expires next year, so Portland gain a lot more cap flexibility, which they need, as right now they don't quite have enough to work with, in order to get significantly better.

But, no idea why GSW would do this, because it's not like Curry & Thompson are at their peak right now, and its not exactly a home run deal either.

Portland will have 11-14 million in cap-space this summer, depending on where BRI is set. That would be cut by about 3 million if they did this trade, so there could be an impact his summer.

it would leave them with about 40-42 million in guaranteed salaries in 2014, so there is that possibility. Of course, that would require them to punt next summer's cap-space down the road a year and not take advantage of any opportunities that came along. I question how viable an option that is. A team as bad as Portland needs to take every opportunity to add good talent. But they also have to weigh that against the simple fact that small market teams don't ever seem to add top-level talent through free agency. Draft picks and unbalanced trades seem a more likely route, while free agency then fills out the rotation & bench. Planning for cap-space two years ahead might work for a NY or a Miami but rarely works for a small market team, unless the goal is to just have a cheap payroll as long as possible

furthermore, the trade doesn't make Portland better this year, and is unlikely to make Portland better in the future. The only certainty is that Barnes will be cheaper then Batum the next 3 seasons. Sometimes that's enough, but I don't think it would be enough for Portland at this point. Maybe...I don't know...

but I do agree that there is not a lot of reason for GS to do this deal. Batum would be more of a 'win-now' asset, but he really isn't likely to make the playoff difference between a 1st round exit and a spot in the WC finals. There's not much reason for GS to tinker with something that's working right now

[turk3d]

Batum Shooting 43.1% fg, 35.5 3pt%, 5.4 rpg (per), 2.4 topg (per) so far this season just doesn't excite me too much.

Barnes with 42.8% fg, 31.8%, 6.2 rpg (per), 1.7 topg )per) as a 20 year old rookie excites me a lot more. Not worth the extra money we'd be throwing @ Batum. I want to see where Barnes goes this being just his first year.

[Trader_Joe]

Neither team would want to move the player they drafted and groomed, especially in a rather lateral trade like this where small forwards are being swapped.

[Wizenheimer]

Batum Shooting 43.1% fg, 35.5 3pt%, 5.4 rpg (per), 2.4 topg (per) so far this season just doesn't excite me too much.

Barnes with 42.8% fg, 31.8%, 6.2 rpg (per), 1.7 topg )per) as a 20 year old rookie excites me a lot more. Not worth the extra money we'd be throwing @ Batum. I want to see where Barnes goes this being just his first year.

that's a bit of cherry-picking

this is Batum's worst shooting year. He's been playing with a bad back and the offense has changed from his first 4 seasons. Batum's career marks in both FG and 3pt shooting are significantly better then this season. I'm much more persuaded by his first 200 games then his last 20

and LOL at pointing out turnovers without mentioning assists. Batum is at 3.4 assists compared to Barnes at 1.6. Significantly changes the perspective on turnovers. You also 'failed' to mention FT shooting. Not a surprise considering Batum is shooting .833 compared to Barnes at .667

impact on their teams? well in the net on-court/off-court differential, Batum has a +4.8 mark while Barnes is a -5.0.

and some other numbers that might add more perspective then the raw numbers you used:

PER: Barnes 10.7....Batum 16.9
Player/Opponent Net PER: Barnes -3.4....Batum +4.1 (at SF)
Player/Opponent Net PER: Barnes +4.5....Batum +16.7 (at SG)
TrueShooting%: Barnes .505....Batum .557
effectiveFG%: Barnes .468....Batum .511
WinShares/48: Barnes .070....Batum .108

it's just fine if you like Barnes more, all things considered, then Batum. You don't need to justify that preference by using a few cherry-picked raw stats. Batum will win any statistical comparison by a wide margin

[gswhoops]

^^ Of course Batum's numbers are better...you're comparing a rookie to a 5th year pro.

This all boils down to what you think of Barnes' potential. Most Warriors fans see something rare in this kid, and are understandably excited. At the same time, there's no guarantees so I can understand why Portland would be hesitant to trade a sure thing for an unknown.

[turk3d]

Batum Shooting 43.1% fg, 35.5 3pt%, 5.4 rpg (per), 2.4 topg (per) so far this season just doesn't excite me too much.

Barnes with 42.8% fg, 31.8%, 6.2 rpg (per), 1.7 topg )per) as a 20 year old rookie excites me a lot more. Not worth the extra money we'd be throwing @ Batum. I want to see where Barnes goes this being just his first year.

that's a bit of cherry-picking

this is Batum's worst shooting year. He's been playing with a bad back and the offense has changed from his first 4 seasons. Batum's career marks in both FG and 3pt shooting are significantly better then this season. I'm much more persuaded by his first 200 games then his last 20

and LOL at pointing out turnovers without mentioning assists. Batum is at 3.4 assists compared to Barnes at 1.6. Significantly changes the perspective on turnovers. You also 'failed' to mention FT shooting. Not a surprise considering Batum is shooting .833 compared to Barnes at .667

impact on their teams? well in the net on-court/off-court differential, Batum has a +4.8 mark while Barnes is a -5.0.

and some other numbers that might add more perspective then the raw numbers you used:

PER: Barnes 10.7....Batum 16.9
Player/Opponent Net PER: Barnes -3.4....Batum +4.1 (at SF)
Player/Opponent Net PER: Barnes +4.5....Batum +16.7 (at SG)
TrueShooting%: Barnes .505....Batum .557
effectiveFG%: Barnes .468....Batum .511
WinShares/48: Barnes .070....Batum .108

it's just fine if you like Barnes more, all things considered, then Batum. You don't need to justify that preference by using a few cherry-picked raw stats. Batum will win any statistical comparison by a wide margin

Cherry picking: not so much. Assists (if you want to talk about career avgs for Batum like you do on the rest) it's just 1.4 and this year they're up because you don't really have any strong passing guards so I imagine that's the reason Batums doing more. But if you want to compare Batum's apg to Barnes you should use per36 to bet a better idea which is just 3.2-2.2. S

So basically Batum's just averaging 1 more apg than Barnes in his rookie year as compared to Batum's 5th (Batum avged just 0.9 apg his first year or 1.8 per36). Look at their first years if you want to get a fair comparison.

Pretty close and definitely not enough of a difference to make this deal at the add on his cost for the next 4 years (especially his last two). We have some good passers on this team so we really don't need Barnes to excel in that area (Curry, Jarret Jack, David Lee, Klay Thompson).