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sac/det sac/den

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Post#16 Re: sac/det sac/den
Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:46 pm by vege

RTM wrote:Now he's paid (even though he's having a better year now as far as efficiency and team play).


Like you said, he is still playing well and he is being paid significantly less than before. Significantly less than Caron Butler himself btw. If anything he has more value now imo.

He is a very high bbiq guy who doesn't rely in athleticism and is never injured. He will be just fine for the remain of his contract.
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Post#17 Re: sac/det sac/den
Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:55 pm by Chuck Texas

Vege,

So Dallas 2 years ago (in a year they are legitimite title contenders) offered an injured Caron Butler and a late 1st for an expiring Prince. That I can believe. That however is hardly what you posted.

And this is your way of justifying your ludicrous belief that Prince who is now 2 years older and with 2 more years left on his deal is worth an expiring and "serious incentive"

SMH

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Post#18 Re: sac/det sac/den
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:06 pm by vege

1 year ago and read the post above yours for the rest of your rant or post or whatever you want to call that thing you wrote.

SMH

.
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Post#19 Re: sac/det sac/den
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:10 pm by Chuck Texas

VEge,

Its basically 2 years ago. Feb 2011 isnt one year ago. Prince has a completely different contract situation. And Dallas offered you an injured expiring and a late 1st. Do you not see how that is absolutely 100% a different situation from any current team giving you an expiring and a lotto pick or good young player (anything less isnt "Serious Incentive") for a 2 year older Prince on a longterm deal?
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Post#20 Re: sac/det sac/den
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:25 pm by vege

Once again, read the first post of this page.

And I'd take an injured Caron Butler over a healthy Francisco Garcia anyway. Neither will see the court but Caron's Bird Rights could be worth something while Garcia might land you a pile of poop at best.

I posted a concrete fact. Detroit was offered expiring + a 1st for Prince and they declined. They will not trade Prince and a 2nd round pick for expiring. If you think different show me something concrete that suggest that please.

I'll add another fact to this. It was reported that at the draft day Detroit had a deal in place to get a better pick I don't remember exactly which pick they were targeting but the deal was Prince + Detroit's pick to improve a few spots in the draft.

That fall under the serious incentive category imo.

So once again.

Fact. Detroit rejected Prince for expiring + a 1st.

Fact. Detroit agreed on a deal to trade Prince + their pick for a better pick, they put the deal on hold and called it off.

You have the balls to post something (Please Use More Appropriate Word) like this

Texas Chuck wrote:And this is your way of justifying your ludicrous belief


So show me the FACTS please. I'll wait patiently.
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Post#21 Re: sac/det sac/den
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:50 pm by Chuck Texas

No Im done arguing with you. You made a completely disingenuous post based on 2 year old info that no longer pertains to Prince. If more regs come itt and post in support of both your position on Prince's current value and that the Dallas rumor linked has any remote relevance to his current value I will extend you a full apology and make it my sig.

But when they dont (and they wont) understand that your Pistons credibility has taken a major hit because not only do you tend to overvalue Piston's assets in almost every thread but now you resort to stretching the facts beyond the breaking point to support your position.
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Post#22 Re: sac/det sac/den
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:38 pm by flipwise

vege wrote:Detroit doesn't touch this for several reasons.

1 - Brooks is garbage and has several years in his deal.

2 - Thomas is garbage but at least is cheap.

3 - Garcia is garbage, Sac would need to add serious incentive for a Prince for Garcia's expiring swap to happen.

4 - Detroit has 15 players under contract and they still need a roster spot for Ben Wallace who still want to play.

5 - Stuckey is Detroit's backup PG not their SG.

Detroit would counter with Prince for Thornton since Sac has no 1st round pick to add to Garcia's expiring to land Prince.


He's on a one-year contract with a player option next year (3,4 mil).
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Post#23 Re: sac/det sac/den
Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:12 pm by Warspite

This Pistons fan would like to

1. trade Prince

2. make a deal with Sac

I dont mind taking Brooks if Thronton/Jimmer are my incentive. Just need to figure out a fair deal that isnt a a 2 for 3.

However i dont think Joe D would trade Prince for anything other than a superstar type player.
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Post#24 Re: sac/det sac/den
Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:46 am by vege

Texas Chuck wrote:No Im done arguing with you. You made a completely disingenuous post based on 2 year old info that no longer pertains to Prince. If more regs come itt and post in support of both your position on Prince's current value and that the Dallas rumor linked has any remote relevance to his current value I will extend you a full apology and make it my sig.

But when they dont (and they wont) understand that your Pistons credibility has taken a major hit because not only do you tend to overvalue Piston's assets in almost every thread but now you resort to stretching the facts beyond the breaking point to support your position.


So let me see if I got it right. I posted 2 FACTS to backup my posts and you posted none, yet you made a bull post calling me ludicious and now this post saying a lot of **** about my opinion but yet you have no FACTS to back your OPINION right?

Yeah I think we're done you don't know wtf you're talking about and you talk like you know ****.
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Post#25 Re: sac/det sac/den
Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:47 am by vege

flipwise wrote:
He's on a one-year contract with a player option next year (3,4 mil).


Like I said, several years. There is no way he walk and leave 3.4 mil on the table considering how bad he's been playing. :wink:
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Post#26 Re: sac/det sac/den
Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:13 am by torotoe

Vege,
You are making a fool of yourself. TC has some valid points. You are irate for some reason unknown to me. Listen to TC, or rather read his posts more carefully.
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Post#27 Re: sac/det sac/den
Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:30 am by vege

He said "And this is your way of justifying your ludicrous belief" and I showed facts. If he has a point, he is welcome to show me the facts that prove his points. So far only one of us showed facts to backup our opinion.

He is more then welcome to disagree with my opinion but call it ludicrous belief is pathetic unless he has some strong facts to back that off. That's all.
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Post#28 Re: sac/det sac/den
Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:48 am by KF10

Is it possible to bring CV into the deal or is he part of your guy's rotation? His PT is only ~15 min. What's up with him?

A stretch 4 for the Kings is a good idea.

What about:

Brooks: $3.3m PO (Player's option)
Garcia: $6.4m TO (Team's option)
Hayes: $5.7m, $5.9m

for

Prince : $7.2m, $7.7m
Villanueva: $8.5m

If the trade goes through, the Pistons will save ~$7m next year, overall ~$8.5m longterm.

Pistons get a vet big in Hayes (one of the best post D players in the L) that can teach Monroe & AD post defense and a back up PG in Brooks. Garcia is just an expiring (waive him after this season). But if you guys use him, he is a good set 3PT shooter (inconsistent player overall) that hustles and blocks at an unusual rate.

Kings get a vet SF in Prince that can fill the starting SF hole and a stretch 4 in CV. Prince can serve as a leader for the Kings and positive influence. CV would be the recipient of decent looks at 3s from kick out's from Reke and co.

Good? Not good? In between? Or hell no?


edit: oops! I forgot to take into your roster spot considerations. This would put you guys +1 over the limit. Hmm, maybe you guys add a filler? waive someone? etc etc?
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Post#29 Re: sac/det sac/den
Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:12 am by vege

KF10 wrote:What's up with him?


He doesn't play defense and doesn't rebound well. He is good when your team is in trouble to score, he is very good offensively he is horrible on defense. He is trying hard this season and that's why his numbers are nice.

I'm not sure about that deal since Detroit can just amnesty CV next season instead of trade Prince for Hayes and Brooks. And while it saves ~7 million next year Detroit would need to add a starter SF. Someone better than Prince will cost more than that.

You'd need to at very least remove Brooks from the deal imo. Garcia + Thomas + Hayes for Prince and CV would be a good deal for Detroit's pov imo and makes sense for Sacramento as well.

I'd still rather something like Prince + Maxiell for Thornton + Hayes tho or CV + English for Hayes + Johnson.
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Post#30 Re: sac/det sac/den
Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:51 am by princeofpalace

Its my opinion that Detroit wouldnt even entertain this trade, as you should know we arent hurting for cap space.

While some fans may want to ditch Prince just for the sake of ditching him, the FO likely realizes what he brings; consistency and a vet presense. He is one of our best players and is certainly are most consistent player. He also happens to be a favorite of Joe D's.

So it seems obvious that the trade is a no on Detroit's end and quite frankly I continue to be shocked why some fans continue to think that they could get Prince for pennies on the dollar. While he may not have as much value to other teams, his value to Detroit is high. At this point, you should assume that Tayshaun retires as a Piston.
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Post#31 Re: sac/det sac/den
Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:03 am by Chuck Texas

Vege,

you are right about one thing: I should not have labeled your opinion on Prince ludicris. That was uncalled for and I apologize to you for it. You are wrong but lets face it people are wrong on here all the time including me.

However, your "facts" to back up your opinion arent relevant at all. It would be nice to be able to hold trade offers on the table for 21 months to cash in whenever you like. Unforunately that isnt reality. I dont know why you cant understand this concept but thats not really my problem so Im gonna let it go.

Sorry to everyone for my part in hijacking the thread. I know better to engage like this.
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Post#32 Re: sac/det sac/den
Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:46 am by vege

Well we don't have any other facts so I'm going with what we have.

The apologize for the use of ludicrous word is accepted btw and that's what pissed me off in your message other than laughing over what I wrote pretending to know better than other people on a subject where all you have is your opinion and common sense to back you.

I took the liberty to start a thread at the pistons board, you'll find it very interesting.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1220214

Texas Chuck wrote: If more regs come itt and post in support of both your position on Prince's current value and that the Dallas rumor linked has any remote relevance to his current value I will extend you a full apology and make it my sig.


As you can see, Prince's value is not something out of my mind, It's a fact that Detroit will not trade Prince for expirings. the Dallas trade offer reported is like I said several times, the fact we have, it's not something that happened today, some of the conditions changed, etc etc but still, it shows how Detroit values Prince and what would take for them to let him go.

Lastly we did not hijack the thread, we're discussing something important that was posted in the OP, we're a little bit extensive on it, yes, but we are arguing over the original trade idea and the value of a player involved on it. This thread is valuable for future trade ideas posted in this boards. Like Pop said, people always think Detroit will trade Prince for pennies of dollar and they will not.

Anyway it's not common for people to apologize for a mistake here and for that you got some respect back.
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Post#33 Re: sac/det sac/den
Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:12 pm by Chuck Texas

all your poll on the clearly unbiased Pistons board tells us is that Pistons fans (and maybe Joe) wont trade him for just expirings. You do realize however that unless a team is actually going to offer you expirings and "serious incentive" that that does not set his value, right? Hes not actually worth that until you have at least one team willing to give it to you in the present day.

Thats great that you dont want to just give him away. Im not going to argue with you about that. Hes a decent enough player who is only slightly overpaid. If you dont need capspace dealing him for nothing wouldnt make sense. Please just learn to understand the difference between how your teams fans (and GM?) value a player and their value to the rest of the league. My issue with you is that you seem to be under the impression that you get to set the value of the your player--you dont--you only get to set the price. And thats a totally different thing.
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Post#34 Re: sac/det sac/den
Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:10 pm by vege

Texas Chuck wrote:all your poll on the clearly unbiased Pistons board tells us is that Pistons fans (and maybe Joe) wont trade him for just expirings.


You are extremely confuse and making absolutely no sense. Let me refresh your memory here.

vege wrote:Detroit doesn't touch this for several reasons.
3 - Garcia is garbage, Sac would need to add serious incentive for a Prince for Garcia's expiring swap to happen.


No offense but I'm starting to think you have some serious ego issues. At the end of the day what I think or what you think is not important. You talk like your opinion is more important than what Joe Dumars has been doing the past few years and the things that have been published/written on the subject.

I said Detroit would not do that and I explained why, the pool proves that Joe Dumars would not do that, and that's what matters here. I did not say other teams would give up a lotto pick, I did not say Prince would land Detorit Lebron James + Chris Bosh.

I said Detroit would not trade Prince for expirings. People who've been reading, watching, listening to Detroit unanimous agree with me. And you're trying to say I am biased and wrong?

And now you want to give me a lesson of what is market value? I am graduated in business administration with a master degree in Business Administration/Leadership. If anything I will give you a lesson on what is market value not the other way around.

I never mentioned market value, I said Detroit would not trade Prince for Expirings without SERIOUS INCENTIVE and I have people who once again, unlike you, know what they're talking about, saying the same thing.

You're embarrassing yourself and trying to find things to prove me wrong when you're are clearly wrong in the subject which is not the problem, the problem here is you thinking you know better then other people.

Stop for a moment to think about the pile of you know what you have been posting in this topic, will be good for you, really.
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