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RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote for #10

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Post#16 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 12:30 pm by WizardsWorld

I'm just going to keep copying and pasting my response... its been the same for about the last 4 of these .... getting silly IMO


The fact that Blake isn't on the list yet is a joke but I'll keep playing along anyway...

Vote: Blake Griffin
Nominate: Deron Williams
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Post#17 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 12:34 pm by DeBlazerRiddem

V: Griffin

N: Monroe
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Post#18 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 12:36 pm by Drax

V: Rajon Rondo
N: Marc Gasol
RR($12.9), Smart($3.3), Bynum($2.9), Pressey ($0.8)
AB($7.2), Turner($3.3), Thornton($8.6)
Green($9.2), Wallace($10.1), Young($1.7)
Sully($1.4), Bass($6.9)
Olynyk($2.1), Zeller($1.7), Faverani($2.1)

guaranteed salary 14/15: ~$74.2 million
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Post#19 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 12:47 pm by Mr. E

Vote: Blake Griffin
Nominate: Chris Bosh
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Post#20 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 12:52 pm by x-

Mr. E wrote:Vote: Blake Griffin
Nominate: Chris Bosh
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Post#21 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 1:13 pm by kdawg32086

Vote: Blake Griffin
Nominate: Marc Gasol
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Thank you triplemke23 for the sig.
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Post#22 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 1:58 pm by lewdog

v - Griffin
n - Curry

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Post#23 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:00 pm by BayWarrior

V: Rondo
N: Curry
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Post#24 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:07 pm by Narf

V: Love
N: Bosh

I had to think about the Griffin vs Love argument. I think Love is the better player, and I don't think Griffin is more marketable as Love is blowing up the media from Minnesota quite well. So that argument is out.

To me the question is, who do you think gives you a better shot at winning a championship? I think Love does.
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Post#25 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:16 pm by Trader_Joe

Narf wrote:V: Love
N: Bosh

I had to think about the Griffin vs Love argument. I think Love is the better player, and I don't think Griffin is more marketable as Love is blowing up the media from Minnesota quite well. So that argument is out.

To me the question is, who do you think gives you a better shot at winning a championship? I think Love does.

I think Griffin is more marketable as H_F has pointed out. His Twitter followers, FB fans, Kia ads, etc.
Also, I think it's a stretch to say Love offers you a better shot at the title when he has yet to be in the playoffs. I'd like to see how he would play in the playoffs before even making that claim.

And finally the fact that Love is about to miss 6-8 weeks (which is a majority of the remaining schedule) because of a re-occurred injury does not help his value. A playoff team wouldn't trade for him since it would severely impact their seeding or chance at the playoffs.. only a rebuilding one would.. but would a rebuilding team take a shot on a player who has publicly been all about being on a winner? I just don't understand what the trade market would be for Kevin Love right now.
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Post#26 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:18 pm by fallacy

WizardsWorld wrote:I'm just going to keep copying and pasting my response... its been the same for about the last 4 of these .... getting silly IMO


The fact that Blake isn't on the list yet is a joke but I'll keep playing along anyway...

Vote: Blake Griffin
Nominate: Deron Williams


What's the joke about Griffin not being a top 9 most valuable? What's so special about his okay stat line and already missing an entire season due to injury while being on a max contract?

17.7/8.5/.6blks on .532/.250/.623 shooting, .562 ts%, .535 eFg%, 22.4 PER, 100 million dollars
14.4/8.5/2.9blks on .565/.300/.818 shooting, .609 ts%, .574 eFg%, 19.9 PER, 48 million dollars


The first one is griffin, the second one is Ibaka. Griffin is good, but its far from a "joke" that he's not top 10 most valuable.
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Post#27 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:23 pm by jscott

V: Love
N: M. Gasol
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Post#28 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:59 pm by HartfordWhalers

Trader_Joe wrote:
Narf wrote:V: Love
N: Bosh

I had to think about the Griffin vs Love argument. I think Love is the better player, and I don't think Griffin is more marketable as Love is blowing up the media from Minnesota quite well. So that argument is out.

To me the question is, who do you think gives you a better shot at winning a championship? I think Love does.

I think Griffin is more marketable as H_F has pointed out. His Twitter followers, FB fans, Kia ads, etc.
Also, I think it's a stretch to say Love offers you a better shot at the title when he has yet to be in the playoffs. I'd like to see how he would play in the playoffs before even making that claim.

And finally the fact that Love is about to miss 6-8 weeks (which is a majority of the remaining schedule) because of a re-occurred injury does not help his value. A playoff team wouldn't trade for him since it would severely impact their seeding or chance at the playoffs.. only a rebuilding one would.. but would a rebuilding team take a shot on a player who has publicly been all about being on a winner? I just don't understand what the trade market would be for Kevin Love right now.


Yeah, I hate using Twitter because its interactive nature should effect the results. But:

Kevin Love: 514,781 followers
Blake Griffin: 1,293,204 followers

Along with every other metric I can think of, its a landslide. The popularity of the two players aren't anywhere near the same.

I think there is a great argument for Kevin Love being a better contributor to a winner in 5 years, its the same argument for Harden over Westbrook. But Love isn't signed for that long while Blake is, GM's get fired in half that time, and Blake is just a fan superstar on a different level. Which is all before the injury and any possible lingering concerns.

fallacy wrote:What's the joke about Griffin not being a top 9 most valuable? What's so special about his okay stat line and already missing an entire season due to injury while being on a max contract?

17.7/8.5/.6blks on .532/.250/.623 shooting, .562 ts%, .535 eFg%, 22.4 PER, 100 million dollars
14.4/8.5/2.9blks on .565/.300/.818 shooting, .609 ts%, .574 eFg%, 19.9 PER, 48 million dollars


The first one is griffin, the second one is Ibaka. Griffin is good, but its far from a "joke" that he's not top 10 most valuable.


Ibaka should be nominated soon. Imo this current nominee crop is all pretty damn close, and its hard to complain about Bosh or M. Gasol, or Ibaka or ...

But your not voting out Griffin and voting in Ibaka. Your voting in Love, so I will ask you the same question I asked VC, why?

Add him in your table, and correct those salary figures:

18.3/14.0/.5blk on .352/.217/.704% shooting, .458 ts% .386efg%, 18.4 PER,
44m over 3 years (then PO of 16.7m or 60.7m over 4) Can't play for 6-8 weeks

17.7/8.5/.6blks on .532/.250/.623 shooting, .562 ts%, .535 eFg%, 22.4 PER,
68 million dollars over 5 years (then 17.8m PO, or 85.8m for 6)

14.4/8.5/2.9blks on .565/.300/.818 shooting, .609 ts%, .574 eFg%, 19.9 PER,
51 million dollars over 5 years

Lets hear the case for Love as I'm not seeing it. I am seeing the case for Ibaka.
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Post#29 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 3:54 pm by Trader_Joe

Even I changed from voting for Love the last 1 or 2 polls to not. Partly because I started to see the case for other players, but really this hand injury sealed the deal.

Love had a narrow(ish) market to begin with.

He's been a bit of a public malcontent in Minny, so I think many smaller market teams and non-playoff teams automatically would have some major reservations making a move for him. I'm not saying they wouldn't but, but they would have about 1.5 years to sell him on their team before it becomes a Dwigthmare.... or maybe just 1 year because as soon as he does hit that final year before becoming an unrestricted free agent he loses trade value.

Of the big market and playoff teams that would trade for him without worrying about his happiness, now would they?

By trading for him now they compromise their playoff seed and their playoffs hopes overall by trading what would be needed to get Love.. for a player that is going to miss the next 6-8 weeks from an injury he had early this season already.
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Post#30 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 4:11 pm by fallacy

HartfordWhalers wrote:
Ibaka should be nominated soon. Imo this current nominee crop is all pretty damn close, and its hard to complain about Bosh or M. Gasol, or Ibaka or ...

But your not voting out Griffin and voting in Ibaka. Your voting in Love, so I will ask you the same question I asked VC, why?



Are we talking about their value for just this year or over their careers? If it's just this year its clearly Griffin, if it's over their careers it's Love.

Love just came off a 26 point, 13 rebound season with a 25.4 PER
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Post#31 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 4:16 pm by Trader_Joe

fallacy wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
Ibaka should be nominated soon. Imo this current nominee crop is all pretty damn close, and its hard to complain about Bosh or M. Gasol, or Ibaka or ...

But your not voting out Griffin and voting in Ibaka. Your voting in Love, so I will ask you the same question I asked VC, why?



Are we talking about their value for just this year or over their careers? If it's just this year its clearly Griffin, if it's over their careers it's Love.

Love just came off a 26 point, 13 rebound season with a 25.4 PER

Right now... as we approach the February 21st trade deadline.... who has the highest trade value.
We do this annually too.
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Post#32 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 4:58 pm by fallacy

Trader_Joe wrote:
fallacy wrote:
HartfordWhalers wrote:
Ibaka should be nominated soon. Imo this current nominee crop is all pretty damn close, and its hard to complain about Bosh or M. Gasol, or Ibaka or ...

But your not voting out Griffin and voting in Ibaka. Your voting in Love, so I will ask you the same question I asked VC, why?



Are we talking about their value for just this year or over their careers? If it's just this year its clearly Griffin, if it's over their careers it's Love.

Love just came off a 26 point, 13 rebound season with a 25.4 PER

Right now... as we approach the February 21st trade deadline.... who has the highest trade value.
We do this annually too.


Love then. He just came off a season that Griffin will never have and his current injury doesn't scare me for the future.
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Post#33 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 5:19 pm by Trader_Joe

fallacy wrote:Love then. He just came off a season that Griffin will never have and his current injury doesn't scare me for the future.

Who are "you" though?
A playoff team that wanted to trade for him, but now worry if they do they might not make the playoffs?
Or a non-playoff team that always worried that Love would publicly state his unhappiness and leave in 2.5 years?
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Post#34 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 5:34 pm by Guy986

Griffin
Bosh

I think Love is by far the better player but his injury swayed me the other way. Would've gone with Love if he didn't reinjure his hand despite his slow start.
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Post#35 Re: RGM's Top 25 Most Valuable Players - Vote
Mon Jan 7, 2013 5:47 pm by fallacy

Trader_Joe wrote:
fallacy wrote:Love then. He just came off a season that Griffin will never have and his current injury doesn't scare me for the future.

Who are "you" though?
A playoff team that wanted to trade for him, but now worry if they do they might not make the playoffs?
Or a non-playoff team that always worried that Love would publicly state his unhappiness and leave in 2.5 years?


any team right now. Now if it gets to the trade deadline and his injury looks bad, that could change.
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