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Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:17 pm
by TruthTelling
LOL
Dudley himself is as good as Gay. Can you tell me why the Suns would include expiring contracts and picks for the luxury to pay Gay 37M$ over the next 2 years?
Ridiculous.
Gay and Wroten for Dudley, Johnson and Beasley would be more balanced.
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:18 pm
by SideSwipe
Dudley, beasely, frye, lower of la or minny picks
For
Gay, Speights
Dramatically lowers Mem salary obligations and tax due to frye covered by ins. And taking back $4 mill less salary
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:21 pm
by gswhoops
I doubt a deal gets done without Phoenix including either Beasley or Frye.
Dudley, Beasley, and some picks for Gay would probably do it if the rumor is real.
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:23 pm
by DusterBuster
CHA_77_Bobcats wrote:Horrible for Phoenix. They are probably the last team in the league that could use Gay. They do NOT need to cash strap their future with slightly-above average talent on hideous contracts. This is a team that is closer to the bottom than the playoffs. A deal like this might push team closer to the playoffs, but that gets them stuck drafting from the dreaded 8-12 area for years to come. The talent is good enough to keep your team afloat, but not good enough to make that final push for the playoffs. It's where the Bobcats were for a while. We blew it up because we were headed for the luxury tax despite being a team on the bubble year after year, with no way to improve through the draft or the free agent market.
Regardless, I think every team in the league that has any reason to care about costs would rather have Jared Dudley than Rudy Gay, simply because Gay makes nearly FOUR TIMES what Dudley makes.
This is so typical of the Suns current management team. Get a guy who's a "name" player that can sell some tickets and jerseys and to hell with trying to create a winning franchise in the future.
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:23 pm
by TruthTelling
Why would we throw in picks there?!
Dudley, Beasley and Johnson is already giving Memphis an as good player and a huge expiring contract for Gay that is how much money Gay makes.
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:24 pm
by DusterBuster
I find it funny that I got ripped to shreds for suggesting that DeMar DeRozen is as good as Rudy Gay, yet it's regarded as a fact that Dudley is as good as Gay..... Oh RealGM.
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:25 pm
by youngthegiant
3 way trade, not the suns though. fair value or off, memphis is also getting picks.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=azky4uw
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:35 pm
by HornetJail
Pretty off. Just cut the Nuggets and do Gay+incentive for Barnes + Biedrins/Jefferson
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:41 pm
by HornetJail
DusterBuster wrote:CHA_77_Bobcats wrote:Horrible for Phoenix. They are probably the last team in the league that could use Gay. They do NOT need to cash strap their future with slightly-above average talent on hideous contracts. This is a team that is closer to the bottom than the playoffs. A deal like this might push team closer to the playoffs, but that gets them stuck drafting from the dreaded 8-12 area for years to come. The talent is good enough to keep your team afloat, but not good enough to make that final push for the playoffs. It's where the Bobcats were for a while. We blew it up because we were headed for the luxury tax despite being a team on the bubble year after year, with no way to improve through the draft or the free agent market.
Regardless, I think every team in the league that has any reason to care about costs would rather have Jared Dudley than Rudy Gay, simply because Gay makes nearly FOUR TIMES what Dudley makes.
This is so typical of the Suns current management team. Get a guy who's a "name" player that can sell some tickets and jerseys and to hell with trying to create a winning franchise in the future.
It's unfortunate because I really enjoyed the Nash/Amare/Marion teams a lot. All three were among my 10 favorite. The team got really bad when they didn't pay Amare to stay and then went and spent the same amount of money on Frye, Warrick, and Childress. Amare might actually have stayed a bit more healthy with Phoenix's god-like medical staff. Seriously I would've taken whatever we've seen from Amare the last 2+ years over anything Warrick and Co. have done for the same price. At least they could amnesty Amare if necessary.
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 7:08 pm
by Br0ken_Sp0ke
This was the exact scenario that popped into my head in a Rudy Gay trade thread awhile ago. I thought PHX, who's one of the most boring teams in the league, would be interested in Gay's "star power" and Hollinger would like a guy like Dudley. A MEM fan said it was a non-starter though, but if they get picks including LAL's first I think it will turn out really good for the Grizz.
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 7:11 pm
by TruthTelling
Br0ken_Sp0ke wrote: but if they get picks including LAL's first I think it will turn out really good for the Grizz.
That is laughable.
They would be incredibly lucky to dump Gays terrible contract for Dudley and expiring deals.
Phoenix throwing in a lottery pick? Uttery ridiculous.
Dudley, Beasley, Johnson(exp) for Gay, Wroten MAYBE
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 7:14 pm
by Sun Scorched
Br0ken_Sp0ke wrote:This was the exact scenario that popped into my head in a Rudy Gay trade thread awhile ago. I thought PHX, who's one of the most boring teams in the league, would be interested in Gay's "star power" and Hollinger would like a guy like Dudley. A MEM fan said it was a non-starter though, but if they get picks including LAL's first I think it will turn out really good for the Grizz.
But you don't get that kind of value back when you're dumping that amount of salary.
Dudley + Picks + Cap Space is a dream scenario for MEM. Not going to happen. You get two of the three - and since you want Dudley to replace Gay and you need cap space (it's the whole point of all of this), you don't get picks.
As shown, for what ther are and for the discrepancy in the amount of their contracts, there is really no reason why PHX should be adding picks to this scenario.
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 7:16 pm
by Br0ken_Sp0ke
TruthTelling wrote:Br0ken_Sp0ke wrote: but if they get picks including LAL's first I think it will turn out really good for the Grizz.
That is laughable.
They would be incredibly lucky to dump Gays terrible contract for Dudley and expiring deals.
Phoenix throwing in a lottery pick? Uttery ridiculous.
Dudley, Beasley, Johnson(exp) for Gay, Wroten MAYBE
Well I hope for your sake you're right. PHX management isn't too smart to begin with if they actually covet a highly overpaid fool's gold player like Rudy Gay.
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 7:18 pm
by Sun Scorched
Fool's Gold is a great way to put it. I like that, Br0ken.
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 7:30 pm
by shrink
I agree that Gay is over-priced, but what would you say is a fair contract for him? $11 mil/year? He's productive, he can do things that some other guys can't, and even if you fault Sarver for it -- selling tickets is a valuable commodity.
I think if the PHX can off-load Beasley's 3-year deal, then you can start from a fairer ground.
I know Suns fans love Dudley, but a deal starting with Dudley + cap space + [EDIT .. words of MIN/MEM pick] + Beasley for Gay is something that I think is fair to both teams. Both teams could improve the deal with lesser pieces involved.
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 7:31 pm
by SCourGe OF GoD
Phoenix isnt re-building properly. They need to go all in ,not make moves like this.
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 7:32 pm
by giberish
I agree with the general sentiment that it would be Dudley/Beasley/small filer form Phoenix to make sense.
For a 4th/5th starter Dudley is at least as good as Gay (and clearly better than Derozen, he can make 3's and plays better D). His overall trade value is higher than Gay's, but adding Beasley balances things somewhat.
I really doubt Memphis would want Beasley though. I'd expect they'd look for a 3rd team to add a solid if overpaid rotation wing or backup PG for Beasley. I'm not sure who that would be right now though.
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 7:32 pm
by shrink
Let me point out one other subtle benefit I haven't seen anyone mention.
The Suns own the lesser of the 2013 MEM or MIN pick. It certainly looks like that's going to be the MEM pick, which right now is #26. If they get Gay off the team for lesser talent, they improve the MEM pick that they already own.
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 7:32 pm
by SCourGe OF GoD
Phoenix isnt re-building properly. They need to go all in ,not make moves like this. Move Gortat for a pick and prospect. Deal Marshall and clear cap.
Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Posted: Tue Jan 8, 2013 7:34 pm
by giberish
shrink wrote:Let me point out one other subtle benefit I haven't seen anyone mention.
The Suns own the lesser of the 2013 MEM or MIN pick. It certainly looks like that's going to be the MEM pick, which right now is #26. If they get Gay off the team for lesser talent, they improve the MEM pick that they already own.
Of course Memphis may want their pick back as part of the deal.