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Phoenix gets Gay?

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Post#31 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:31 pm by SCourGe OF GoD

Phoenix isnt re-building properly. They need to go all in ,not make moves like this.
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Post#32 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:32 pm by giberish

I agree with the general sentiment that it would be Dudley/Beasley/small filer form Phoenix to make sense.

For a 4th/5th starter Dudley is at least as good as Gay (and clearly better than Derozen, he can make 3's and plays better D). His overall trade value is higher than Gay's, but adding Beasley balances things somewhat.

I really doubt Memphis would want Beasley though. I'd expect they'd look for a 3rd team to add a solid if overpaid rotation wing or backup PG for Beasley. I'm not sure who that would be right now though.
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Post#33 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:32 pm by shrink

Let me point out one other subtle benefit I haven't seen anyone mention.

The Suns own the lesser of the 2013 MEM or MIN pick. It certainly looks like that's going to be the MEM pick, which right now is #26. If they get Gay off the team for lesser talent, they improve the MEM pick that they already own.
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Post#34 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:32 pm by SCourGe OF GoD

Phoenix isnt re-building properly. They need to go all in ,not make moves like this. Move Gortat for a pick and prospect. Deal Marshall and clear cap.
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Post#35 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:34 pm by giberish

shrink wrote:Let me point out one other subtle benefit I haven't seen anyone mention.

The Suns own the lesser of the 2013 MEM or MIN pick. It certainly looks like that's going to be the MEM pick, which right now is #26. If they get Gay off the team for lesser talent, they improve the MEM pick that they already own.


Of course Memphis may want their pick back as part of the deal.
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Post#36 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:35 pm by TruthTelling

shrink wrote:Let me point out one other subtle benefit I haven't seen anyone mention.

The Suns own the lesser of the 2013 MEM or MIN pick. It certainly looks like that's going to be the MEM pick, which right now is #26. If they get Gay off the team for lesser talent, they improve the MEM pick that they already own.


except Memphis would be a better team with Dudley instead of Gay...

Last time Gay was injured Memphis also played better without him even.
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Post#37 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:35 pm by SCourGe OF GoD

shrink wrote:Let me point out one other subtle benefit I haven't seen anyone mention.

The Suns own the lesser of the 2013 MEM or MIN pick. It certainly looks like that's going to be the MEM pick, which right now is #26. If they get Gay off the team for lesser talent, they improve the MEM pick that they already own.

Just circumstantial though. You dont make big moves like this just to keep a late 1st
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Post#38 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:37 pm by TruthTelling

shrink wrote:I agree that Gay is over-priced, but what would you say is a fair contract for him? $11 mil/year? He's productive, he can do things that some other guys can't, and even if you fault Sarver for it -- selling tickets is a valuable commodity.

I think if the PHX can off-load Beasley's 3-year deal, then you can start from a fairer ground.

I know Suns fans love Dudley, but a deal starting with Dudley + cap space + LAL 1st + Beasley for Gay is something that I think is fair to both teams. Both teams could improve the deal with lesser pieces involved.


LAL 1st is a lottery pick any inclusion is ridiculous.

Gay is productive? His PER is LOWER than Dudley's. Gay is putting up 18/6 on BARELY 40%.

And Rudy Gay is a no-name too, he is no allstar, he is not the type of player that fills seats.
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Post#39 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:38 pm by shrink

giberish wrote:I really doubt Memphis would want Beasley though. I'd expect they'd look for a 3rd team to add a solid if overpaid rotation wing or backup PG for Beasley. I'm not sure who that would be right now though.


I don't think they'll want him either. Wherever he ends up, with MIN or a third team, I expect that they'll give him a chance for the rest of the season, and if he doesn't help, I expect they'll get rid of the remaining $12 mil with the stretch provision this summer over 5 years. I hear his final season isn't fully guaranteed -- anyone know how much that is?
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Post#40 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:40 pm by shrink

TruthTelling wrote: LAL 1st is a lottery pick any inclusion is ridiculous.


My bad. I've grown accustomed to thinking of it as a pick in the 20's.

Getting the rights to the MIN pick (that will probably turn into the MEM pick) is the better way to go.
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Post#41 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:16 pm by Foshan

PHX: Dudley / Gorat / Min 1st
phx: Gay / Moultrie

PHI: Moultrie / N.Young / 2nd
phi: Gorat / Selby

MEM: Gay / Selby
mem: Dudley / Young (expiring) / Min 1st / Phi 2nd

Phx gets Gay, because they seem to want him... plus a young big with some upside. Philly gets a C because they are delusional and think they are good. Mem gets a replacement, $$ savings and some picks.
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Post#42 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:19 pm by DusterBuster

GhostX wrote:Phoenix isnt re-building properly. They need to go all in ,not make moves like this.


They've been improperly rebuilding since they let Amare leave.

They let Amare leave, which ended up being a smart move, but then took all the cap space they got from that by signing Hakim Warrick to a large contract for what he brings, Josh Childress to a ridiculously huge contract considering he hadn't been in the NBA for years and then trading for Hedo Turkoglu, who was at that time, the worst contract in the NBA. Instead of being patient and using the cap space properly, they blew all of it on terrible investments.

Then they hold onto Nash for too long until they eventually lose him via FA. They got some picks back which was nice for them, but then what did they do with the cap space he opened up? Offered a max contract to a guy with chronic knee issues, signed a solid but inconsistent Goran Dragic and a complete malcontent cancer in Beasley.

Again, their management is so incompetent that the idea of trading for a overpaid Rudy Gay is just par for the course. They're going to give away decent draft picks that could help the properly rebuild for a low potential immediate boost.
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Post#43 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:35 pm by mlloyd10

If MEM wants star power and also wants to get rid of Gay

MEM get: Ellis/Beasley
Bucks get: Dudley
Suns get: Gay
KOHL MUST GO
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Post#44 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:43 pm by Br0ken_Sp0ke

DusterBuster wrote:
GhostX wrote:Phoenix isnt re-building properly. They need to go all in ,not make moves like this.


They've been improperly rebuilding since they let Amare leave.

They let Amare leave, which ended up being a smart move, but then took all the cap space they got from that by signing Hakim Warrick to a large contract for what he brings, Josh Childress to a ridiculously huge contract considering he hadn't been in the NBA for years and then trading for Hedo Turkoglu, who was at that time, the worst contract in the NBA. Instead of being patient and using the cap space properly, they blew all of it on terrible investments.

Then they hold onto Nash for too long until they eventually lose him via FA. They got some picks back which was nice for them, but then what did they do with the cap space he opened up? Offered a max contract to a guy with chronic knee issues, signed a solid but inconsistent Goran Dragic and a complete malcontent cancer in Beasley.

Again, their management is so incompetent that the idea of trading for a overpaid Rudy Gay is just par for the course. They're going to give away decent draft picks that could help the properly rebuild for a low potential immediate boost.


Not to mention that when they had the opportunity to get a real star in James Harden to build around, they thought their assets were too good and said no...

The talks boiled down to the Suns having to part with a "substantial player," another asset, and two first round picks. In the end it became a simple question of whether the team thought Harden was worth two first round picks. Could they afford to mortgage their future for the potential of Harden becoming a star? Babby ultimately decided the answer to that was no.
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Post#45 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:45 pm by Trader_Joe

Dudley, S.Brown, Wes, Protected #1, $5.7m TPE/Savings
for
Gay, Pondexter

Seems fair.
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Post#46 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:51 pm by Safety Pickle

DusterBuster wrote:
GhostX wrote:Phoenix isnt re-building properly. They need to go all in ,not make moves like this.


They've been improperly rebuilding since they let Amare leave.

They let Amare leave, which ended up being a smart move, but then took all the cap space they got from that by signing Hakim Warrick to a large contract for what he brings, Josh Childress to a ridiculously huge contract considering he hadn't been in the NBA for years and then trading for Hedo Turkoglu, who was at that time, the worst contract in the NBA. Instead of being patient and using the cap space properly, they blew all of it on terrible investments.

Then they hold onto Nash for too long until they eventually lose him via FA. They got some picks back which was nice for them, but then what did they do with the cap space he opened up? Offered a max contract to a guy with chronic knee issues, signed a solid but inconsistent Goran Dragic and a complete malcontent cancer in Beasley.

Again, their management is so incompetent that the idea of trading for a overpaid Rudy Gay is just par for the course. They're going to give away decent draft picks that could help the properly rebuild for a low potential immediate boost.


No way Hedo's contract was worse than Arenas's at that time or even Rashard Lewis. We also managed to turn Turk into Gortat and a first rounder.

I agree we held onto Nash for too long, but we were able to get 4 picks for him, one of which could be a loto pick this year. Not too bad.

Also, there is no way Beasley is a cancer. He's a goofball playing pretty poor ball right now, but there is no way he's a locker room cancer like people seem to think he is.
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Post#47 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:57 pm by TruthTelling

Trader_Joe wrote:Dudley, S.Brown, Wes, Protected #1, $5.7m TPE/Savings
for
Gay, Pondexter

Seems fair.


what sounds fair about that considering Gay is barely better than Dudley?

Basically the Suns make a lateral move while giving the Grizzlies a first round pick and 13M$ capspace in the summer.

Ridiculous.

I would not sign Gay to that contract if he was a FA this summer let alone give up Dudley and a first round pick to do that.

Rudy Gay is not worth Jared Dudley, expiring contracts and a first round pick.
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Post#48 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 4:17 pm by hcsilla

CHA_77_Bobcats wrote:Horrible for Phoenix. They are probably the last team in the league that could use Gay. They do NOT need to cash strap their future with slightly-above average talent on hideous contracts. This is a team that is closer to the bottom than the playoffs. A deal like this might push team closer to the playoffs, but that gets them stuck drafting from the dreaded 8-12 area for years to come. The talent is good enough to keep your team afloat, but not good enough to make that final push for the playoffs. It's where the Bobcats were for a while. We blew it up because we were headed for the luxury tax despite being a team on the bubble year after year, with no way to improve through the draft or the free agent market.

Regardless, I think every team in the league that has any reason to care about costs would rather have Jared Dudley than Rudy Gay, simply because Gay makes nearly FOUR TIMES what Dudley makes.


Exactly,

Even trading Dudley and expirings straight up for Gay without the picks is stupid for the Suns.

I do hope that they won't do it, but I'm scared a bit.
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Post#49 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 4:21 pm by hcsilla

Trader_Joe wrote:Dudley, S.Brown, Wes, Protected #1, $5.7m TPE/Savings
for
Gay, Pondexter

Seems fair.


No, it doesn't. And it doesn't make any sense for the Suns either.
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Post#50 Re: Phoenix gets Gay?
Tue Jan 8, 2013 5:23 pm by Dr Positivity

Would be a very smart trade by Memphis. Dudley would be a permanent version of 2011 Battier. Spacing the floor, D, high IQ play and of course, he's cheap. I think I like their chances of winning the title this year more with Dudley than Gay just because of how well he fits
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