Phoenix gets Gay?

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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#46 » by Safety Pickle » Tue Jan 8, 2013 8:51 pm

DusterBuster wrote:
GhostX wrote:Phoenix isnt re-building properly. They need to go all in ,not make moves like this.


They've been improperly rebuilding since they let Amare leave.

They let Amare leave, which ended up being a smart move, but then took all the cap space they got from that by signing Hakim Warrick to a large contract for what he brings, Josh Childress to a ridiculously huge contract considering he hadn't been in the NBA for years and then trading for Hedo Turkoglu, who was at that time, the worst contract in the NBA. Instead of being patient and using the cap space properly, they blew all of it on terrible investments.

Then they hold onto Nash for too long until they eventually lose him via FA. They got some picks back which was nice for them, but then what did they do with the cap space he opened up? Offered a max contract to a guy with chronic knee issues, signed a solid but inconsistent Goran Dragic and a complete malcontent cancer in Beasley.

Again, their management is so incompetent that the idea of trading for a overpaid Rudy Gay is just par for the course. They're going to give away decent draft picks that could help the properly rebuild for a low potential immediate boost.


No way Hedo's contract was worse than Arenas's at that time or even Rashard Lewis. We also managed to turn Turk into Gortat and a first rounder.

I agree we held onto Nash for too long, but we were able to get 4 picks for him, one of which could be a loto pick this year. Not too bad.

Also, there is no way Beasley is a cancer. He's a goofball playing pretty poor ball right now, but there is no way he's a locker room cancer like people seem to think he is.
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#47 » by TruthTelling » Tue Jan 8, 2013 8:57 pm

Trader_Joe wrote:Dudley, S.Brown, Wes, Protected #1, $5.7m TPE/Savings
for
Gay, Pondexter

Seems fair.


what sounds fair about that considering Gay is barely better than Dudley?

Basically the Suns make a lateral move while giving the Grizzlies a first round pick and 13M$ capspace in the summer.

Ridiculous.

I would not sign Gay to that contract if he was a FA this summer let alone give up Dudley and a first round pick to do that.

Rudy Gay is not worth Jared Dudley, expiring contracts and a first round pick.
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#48 » by hcsilla » Tue Jan 8, 2013 9:17 pm

CHA_77_Bobcats wrote:Horrible for Phoenix. They are probably the last team in the league that could use Gay. They do NOT need to cash strap their future with slightly-above average talent on hideous contracts. This is a team that is closer to the bottom than the playoffs. A deal like this might push team closer to the playoffs, but that gets them stuck drafting from the dreaded 8-12 area for years to come. The talent is good enough to keep your team afloat, but not good enough to make that final push for the playoffs. It's where the Bobcats were for a while. We blew it up because we were headed for the luxury tax despite being a team on the bubble year after year, with no way to improve through the draft or the free agent market.

Regardless, I think every team in the league that has any reason to care about costs would rather have Jared Dudley than Rudy Gay, simply because Gay makes nearly FOUR TIMES what Dudley makes.


Exactly,

Even trading Dudley and expirings straight up for Gay without the picks is stupid for the Suns.

I do hope that they won't do it, but I'm scared a bit.
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#49 » by hcsilla » Tue Jan 8, 2013 9:21 pm

Trader_Joe wrote:Dudley, S.Brown, Wes, Protected #1, $5.7m TPE/Savings
for
Gay, Pondexter

Seems fair.


No, it doesn't. And it doesn't make any sense for the Suns either.
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#50 » by Dr Positivity » Tue Jan 8, 2013 10:23 pm

Would be a very smart trade by Memphis. Dudley would be a permanent version of 2011 Battier. Spacing the floor, D, high IQ play and of course, he's cheap. I think I like their chances of winning the title this year more with Dudley than Gay just because of how well he fits
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#51 » by Wasabi_Johnson » Tue Jan 8, 2013 10:48 pm

I like it for both teams if Suns can dump Beasley. Essentially upgrade Dudley into ticket sales. Get a bigger player, more athletic, better scorer and defender. If Gay could get back to his prior health , which shouldnt be hard to do with the Suns medical staff, he easily become a 20ppg scorer. Won't blow you away with efficiency but won't hurt a team. There are only so many efficient big time scorers in the lg .

Gay is probably overpaid by bout 3 million a year but just the price small markets have to pay to keep their good players thse days.
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#52 » by TruthTelling » Tue Jan 8, 2013 10:58 pm

Wasabi_Johnson wrote:I like it for both teams if Suns can dump Beasley. Essentially upgrade Dudley into ticket sales. Get a bigger player, more athletic, better scorer and defender. If Gay could get back to his prior health , which shouldnt be hard to do with the Suns medical staff, he easily become a 20ppg scorer. Won't blow you away with efficiency but won't hurt a team. There are only so many efficient big time scorers in the lg .

Gay is probably overpaid by bout 3 million a year but just the price small markets have to pay to keep their good players thse days.


Gay makes 20M$ per season and is overpaid by about 10M$ not 3M$.

Also Gay is not a better defender at all. He is also not really a better scorer unless efficiency means nothing to you.

And another thing Phoenix is not a small market team. They are not a big market like New York or LA but they are for damn sure in the top half in terms of free agent destination. Realistically historically they have never had problems attracting FAs and were always considered a free agent magnet.
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#53 » by Wasabi_Johnson » Tue Jan 8, 2013 11:50 pm

TruthTelling wrote:
Wasabi_Johnson wrote:I like it for both teams if Suns can dump Beasley. Essentially upgrade Dudley into ticket sales. Get a bigger player, more athletic, better scorer and defender. If Gay could get back to his prior health , which shouldnt be hard to do with the Suns medical staff, he easily become a 20ppg scorer. Won't blow you away with efficiency but won't hurt a team. There are only so many efficient big time scorers in the lg .

Gay is probably overpaid by bout 3 million a year but just the price small markets have to pay to keep their good players thse days.


Gay makes 20M$ per season and is overpaid by about 10M$ not 3M$.

Also Gay is not a better defender at all. He is also not really a better scorer unless efficiency means nothing to you.

And another thing Phoenix is not a small market team. They are not a big market like New York or LA but they are for damn sure in the top half in terms of free agent destination. Realistically historically they have never had problems attracting FAs and were always considered a free agent magnet.

Gay does not make 20 million per season. Contract averages to about bout 17 million the next two years. Don't see how 14 million isn't a fair price for gay.

From what I have seen of the both Dudley is a willing defender but not a very capable one especially against athletic wings. Gay has become an average defender over the last couple of years after starting off poor.

Dudley is the better shooter but I am not going to call a player who can't create their own shot the better scorer. Two different things.
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#54 » by ChrisTheFuturePaul » Tue Jan 8, 2013 11:58 pm

People can whinge about Rudy's FG% and PER all they want it will never change the fact hes vastly more capable of leading a team than Dudley and PHX needs a leader, Dragic is not it. Thats why the deal makes sense. Also consider PHX dont have any real cap space until Gortat and Brown come off the books and they aren't letting them walk for nothing.

Gay comes off the books same time as Scola / Frye / Beasley. They can resign him cheaper than his salary at that time and have cap space for another star. Assuming Dragic picks up his player option they'll have a serviceable PG and likely two lottery picks.

People are too short sighted with this idea. Where you going with Jared Dudley bro?!

P.S. I'm stoked I posted a Mem / Phx deal yesterday around this :P
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#55 » by DusterBuster » Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:05 am

Wasabi_Johnson wrote:Gay does not make 20 million per season. Contract averages to about bout 17 million the next two years. Don't see how 14 million isn't a fair price for gay.


13/14 Season : $17,888,932
14/15 Season : $19,317,326

Average : $18,603,129

Math is FUNdamental.
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#56 » by Wasabi_Johnson » Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:44 am

DusterBuster wrote:
Wasabi_Johnson wrote:Gay does not make 20 million per season. Contract averages to about bout 17 million the next two years. Don't see how 14 million isn't a fair price for gay.


13/14 Season : $17,888,932
14/15 Season : $19,317,326

Average : $18,603,129

Math is FUNdamental.

Lol so is English. About means estimate not exact.
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#57 » by DusterBuster » Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:48 am

Wasabi_Johnson wrote:Lol so is English. About means estimate not exact.


That wasn't a close estimate.
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#58 » by BLT » Wed Jan 9, 2013 1:01 am

Wasabi_Johnson wrote:
DusterBuster wrote:
Wasabi_Johnson wrote:Gay does not make 20 million per season. Contract averages to about bout 17 million the next two years. Don't see how 14 million isn't a fair price for gay.


13/14 Season : $17,888,932
14/15 Season : $19,317,326

Average : $18,603,129

Math is FUNdamental.

Lol so is English. About means estimate not exact.


18,603,129 is closer to 20 million than 17 million..... just saying
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#59 » by mcfly1204 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 1:09 am

To be fair, the contract Gay initially signed was for $80 million over 5 years, you know, $16 million a season.
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#60 » by ray ray » Wed Jan 9, 2013 3:27 am

After tonight's loss versus the Bucks, I expect Rudy Gay to become a Sun.
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#61 » by gaspar » Wed Jan 9, 2013 3:57 am

TruthTelling wrote:
Trader_Joe wrote:Dudley, S.Brown, Wes, Protected #1, $5.7m TPE/Savings
for
Gay, Pondexter

Seems fair.


what sounds fair about that considering Gay is barely better than Dudley?

Basically the Suns make a lateral move while giving the Grizzlies a first round pick and 13M$ capspace in the summer.

Ridiculous.

I would not sign Gay to that contract if he was a FA this summer let alone give up Dudley and a first round pick to do that.

Rudy Gay is not worth Jared Dudley, expiring contracts and a first round pick.

Yup. If the Suns were willing to trade Dudley + draft picks for Rudy Gay he would be a Sun already, no matter who's the filler. But thankfully it seems like the Suns FO isn't THAT stupid to do this.
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#62 » by ray ray » Wed Jan 9, 2013 5:16 am

I beleive the deal is Rudy Gay for Jared Dudley, Michael Beasley & timberwolves 1st rounder.
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#63 » by loserX » Wed Jan 9, 2013 6:12 am

I can absolutely see the Suns considering this. They were willing to give Eric Gordon the max, I don't see why it's so unpalatable to consider Rudy Gay. I proposed Dudley + 1 pick + filler + capspace in another thread and I still think it makes sense.
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#64 » by Sun Scorched » Wed Jan 9, 2013 6:37 am

Why the pick? What's the logic there?

The way I see it, MEM gets Dudley who provides the same production at a 1/5th of the price, plus a ton of cap space. Is Gay worth so much more than Dudley that cap space isn't enough? They need a pick too?
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Re: Phoenix gets Gay? 

Post#65 » by loserX » Wed Jan 9, 2013 6:46 am

Sun Scorched wrote:Why the pick? What's the logic there?

The way I see it, MEM gets Dudley who provides the same production at a 1/5th of the price, plus a ton of cap space. Is Gay worth so much more than Dudley that cap space isn't enough? They need a pick too?


Well, Gay is certainly better than Dudley (and I like Dudley a lot). Gay will almost certainly produce more in Phoenix than Dudley will.

And if it were purely Gay for Dudley and capspace, that would be one thing. But it's not, because Phoenix doesn't have that much capspace. They have to send back salary too, most of which is of no interest to Memphis.

Would Phoenix do Dudley and capspace for Gay? I bet they would. But in order to do that, they have to dump Frye or Beasley or Wes Johnson on someone. And getting rid of any of those guys for capspace would cost a pick anyway.

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