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TruthTelling wrote:

Trader_Joe wrote:Dudley, S.Brown, Wes, Protected #1, $5.7m TPE/Savings
for
Gay, Pondexter

Seems fair.

what sounds fair about that considering Gay is barely better than Dudley?

Basically the Suns make a lateral move while giving the Grizzlies a first round pick and 13M$ capspace in the summer.

Ridiculous.

I would not sign Gay to that contract if he was a FA this summer let alone give up Dudley and a first round pick to do that.

Rudy Gay is not worth Jared Dudley, expiring contracts and a first round pick.

Yup. If the Suns were willing to trade Dudley + draft picks for Rudy Gay he would be a Sun already, no matter who's the filler. But thankfully it seems like the Suns FO isn't THAT stupid to do this.

I beleive the deal is Rudy Gay for Jared Dudley, Michael Beasley & timberwolves 1st rounder.

I can absolutely see the Suns considering this. They were willing to give Eric Gordon the max, I don't see why it's so unpalatable to consider Rudy Gay. I proposed Dudley + 1 pick + filler + capspace in another thread and I still think it makes sense.

Why the pick? What's the logic there?

The way I see it, MEM gets Dudley who provides the same production at a 1/5th of the price, plus a ton of cap space. Is Gay worth so much more than Dudley that cap space isn't enough? They need a pick too?

Sun Scorched wrote:Why the pick? What's the logic there?

The way I see it, MEM gets Dudley who provides the same production at a 1/5th of the price, plus a ton of cap space. Is Gay worth so much more than Dudley that cap space isn't enough? They need a pick too?

Well, Gay is certainly better than Dudley (and I like Dudley a lot). Gay will almost certainly produce more in Phoenix than Dudley will.

And if it were purely Gay for Dudley and capspace, that would be one thing. But it's not, because Phoenix doesn't have that much capspace. They have to send back salary too, most of which is of no interest to Memphis.

Would Phoenix do Dudley and capspace for Gay? I bet they would. But in order to do that, they have to dump Frye or Beasley or Wes Johnson on someone. And getting rid of any of those guys for capspace would cost a pick anyway.

From Basketball-reference.com:



If thats the difference between the 2 for an extra $11M, NO THANKS!!!!

And Memphis wants draft picks too ?!?!?!? get the eff out of here! That ish cray!

What about Thornton, Johnson and Brooks for Gay?

Johnson has been a lockdown defender at times and can defend power forwards too. Thornton can provide Memphis with some outside shooting, while his contract sucks it's still half of what Gay makes. Brooks is just filler he can be replaced by Garcia (expiring) or Honeycutt if that's better.

People can bring up stats all they like, Rudy Gay is FAR superior to Dudley in creating his own shot, and will average a boatload more points in Phoenix if the deal goes through.
I'm a huge Dudley fan and no fan of Gay's, but this is getting ridiculous.

I agree with loserX, Dudley alone would almost be ok but taking on a contract would require Phoenix to provide additional incentive, most likely in the form of a first round pick. I'm of the opinion that said first rounder isn't solely to make up for the additional contract, it's to make up for the create own shot ability, and therefore more star power/ability to shoulder a significant load on offense. This isn't rocket science, comparing Dudley to Gay is like comparing Harden to Kevin Martin.

Timing doesn't make sense for Phoenix since we're a bottom 5 team. When we secure a great pick (two if LA misses the playoffs) we can talk. A win now move is pointless.

Rudy Gay isn't going to win you (m)any more games this year anyway. In the offseason the Suns would have short term deals (Beasley's EC, or whatevers left after the Gay trade), and could use the amnesty on Frye (who could conceivably retire anyway).

N.O.R.E. wrote:Rudy Gay isn't going to win you (m)any more games this year anyway. In the offseason the Suns would have short term deals (Beasley's EC, or whatevers left after the Gay trade), and could use the amnesty on Frye (who could conceivably retire anyway).

They can't since they already did on Childress.

Acquiring Gay would do two things for the Suns: worsen their chances for a good draft pick and drastically reduce their cap flexibility.

In other words: this would be one of the worst moves ever for them. Even with Beasley and without any draft picks.

Comparing this to the Harden-deal is completely off since the Rockets were a borderline play-off team anyway plus Harden is a true star and max. player while Gay is not and he is older too.

Dudley better than gay? Lol
Rudy plays on one of the worst offenses in the NBA.
Hollins sucks as an offensive coach.

Dudley makes more of an impact on his team than Gay and that's without bringing their salaries into the discussion.

Last season Rudy Gay was the second best player on a team which earned home court advantage in the west.

Now write a comparable statement about Dudley...

We can talk about salary differentials, but let's start from an accurate assessment of their on-court ability, shall we?

An accurate assesment is that Dudley is having a far better season than Gay and that currently Gay is maybe the 4th best player on Memphis and 2 years ago when Gay was injured Memphis played better without Gay.

Last season Rudy Gay was the second best player on a team which earned home court advantage in the west.

Now write a comparable statement about Dudley...

Let's try that again shall we?

Dudley has been a key player on a team that came close to going all the way until the Lakers eliminated them in a hard fought WCF series.

And the past does not really matter, the present is that Gay is having a worse season than Dudley by a big margin.

TruthTelling wrote:Dudley has been a key player on a team that came close to going all the way until the Lakers eliminated them in a hard fought WCF series.

And the past does not really matter, the present is that Gay is having a worse season than Dudley by a big margin.

Now we're getting somewhere. Who were the other "key players", and how many of them were more "key" than Dudley and by how much?

Gay's 2nd best player on a 4th place team came less than half a season ago. When did Dudley's "key role" in the WCF occur? What were his stats?

hcsilla wrote:

N.O.R.E. wrote:Rudy Gay isn't going to win you (m)any more games this year anyway. In the offseason the Suns would have short term deals (Beasley's EC, or whatevers left after the Gay trade), and could use the amnesty on Frye (who could conceivably retire anyway).

They can't since they already did on Childress.

Acquiring Gay would do two things for the Suns: worsen their chances for a good draft pick and drastically reduce their cap flexibility.

In other words: this would be one of the worst moves ever for them. Even with Beasley and without any draft picks.

Not really sure about this argument. By that logic, maybe they should trade Dragic and Gortat for expirings and late picks, too. Just imagine how good their draft pick and salary flexibility would be then!

This year's is not a strong draft and a relatively thin free agent pool. (And, let's be candid, the biggest names in that pool are real longshots for Phoenix in 2013.) Gay may be better than any player Phoenix can acquire in the offseason using a pick OR capspace, and Phoenix clearly wants to add to their talent base now. Shouldn't they at least look at a move like this?

hcsilla wrote:Comparing this to the Harden-deal is completely off since the Rockets were a borderline play-off team anyway plus Harden is a true star and max. player while Gay is not and he is older too.

He wasn't comparing the deal, he was comparing the talent difference.

Ok, I looked it up for you. Your "key player" averaged 8 and 3 off the bench. Since that means so much to you, what if Memphis includes a comparable key player from it's deep playoff run. How do you feel about Darrell Arthur for Gortat?

Prospect Dong wrote:

Last season Rudy Gay was the second best player on a team which earned home court advantage in the west.

Now write a comparable statement about Dudley...

Let's try that again shall we?

Last season was last season, and i beg to differ on the fact that you find him the 2nd best player that season. Seemed Memphis played better when he was out, but that is neither here nor there. How has he been this season? You're only as good as your last game. His stats this season show that he is on par with Dudley, WHO IS GETTING PAID $11M LESS! There is a reason that Memphis is trying to dump him and why they want Dudley, who wouldnt want the same production for $11M less? Hollinger aint no dummy! This is why they hired him!

Suns are a rebuilding team, the last thing they need to do is get rid of draft picks and cap space for Rudy Frickin' Gay. Let Toronto take him! They seem to be willing to offer draft picks in the deal, along with Calderon and Ed Davis.