Blazers acquires an entire bench from the Suns

cucad8 · Post #16 » by **cucad8** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:25 pm

he was picked 11. The trade boils down to Leonard for that pick. Worst part is the mention by the MN fan that they can put the Memphis pick in, which maes it exchanging a lottery picked C for a late 1st. no.

fishercob · Post #17 » by **fishercob** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:35 pm

Village Idiot wrote:I'd be willing to give up Leonard to Phoenix but only if Gortat is coming back.

This seems to make sense to me. Phoenix has to strip it down and get worse, frankly. Trading Gortat for Leonard gives them a high upside prospect that they can start to groom as well as revs up the tank.

I think Freeland, Leonard and a lotto-protected first (with descending protection) is a fair package for Gortat.

Gortat would give PDX a nice boost and he's on a very reasonable deal through next season. By my count the Blazers would be some $12M under the cap this summer with which to keep Hickson and bolster the rest of the bench.

hcsilla · Post #18 » by **hcsilla** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:36 pm

cucad8 wrote:he was picked 11.

I'm not sure that you understood but I repeat:

Then Leonard wasn't a lottery picked center either since we know that 1 and 2 spots do not count and #12 is basically a lottery protected pick according to you.

Worst part is the mention by the MN fan that they can put the Memphis pick in, which maes it exchanging a lottery picked C for a late 1st. no.

No, that is not correct.

Lon Babby clarified earlier that if the Grizzlies convert their pick to MIN (which they will if they make the PO) and the Wolves don't (which they probably won't if they will miss the PO) this year then the Suns will get MIN's pick in the next 3 years.

cucad8 · Post #19 » by **cucad8** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:44 pm

great, you can feel free to argue semantics. I'll stop with, this is an easy no for the Blazers, because for them, it boils down to Leonard for a protected pick. Not interested.

JasonStern · Post #20 » by **JasonStern** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:22 pm

fishercob wrote:
Village Idiot wrote:I'd be willing to give up Leonard to Phoenix but only if Gortat is coming back.

This seems to make sense to me.

I also like where something built around this trade proposal instead of OP's is going.

Post #21 » by **DeBlazerRiddem** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:06 pm

hcsilla wrote:
Golabki wrote:
hcsilla wrote:Almost a complete bench and a future 1st rounder isn't enough for Leonard?

Telfair and Brown aren't good. O'Neal will be lucky to make it through the year healthy.

Good or not, healthy or not, that is debatable. They all are better than the Blazers have on their bench right now.

Portland's goal is not to give up long term assets for a short term gain. Listen to their GM, he has been saying this for a while, and your proposal flies right in the face of it. It's easy to see why Portland is turning it down.

hcsilla · Post #22 » by **hcsilla** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:30 pm

I love how effortlessly you guys overlook the fact that POR also gets a late lottery-mid 1st round pick in the deal.

Besides, I think that getting the better part of the Suns bench for some mid 2nd rounders is a pipe-dream.

cucad8 · Post #23 » by **cucad8** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:34 pm

hcsilla wrote:I love how effortlessly you guys overlook the fact that POR also gets a late lottery-mid 1st round pick in the deal.

.

it's the only thing worthwhile they get in the deal, and they give out a prospect for it. It's trading to trade, at that point. O'Neal, Brown and Telfair are mediocre bench pieces that MAYBE help us get the 8th seed. We're not giving up a young project C for that and a worse pick than where we got the C at in the first place.

Golabki · Post #24 » by **Golabki** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:38 pm

hcsilla wrote:I love how effortlessly you guys overlook the fact that POR also gets a late lottery-mid 1st round pick in the deal.

Besides, I think that getting the better part of the Suns bench for some mid 2nd rounders is a pipe-dream.

I'm not overlooking the pick (likely 15-20 range). I'm ignoring the amazing "Suns Bench", which consists of the 60th best SG in the NBA, the 90th best PG in the NBA, and a geriatric.

hcsilla · Post #25 » by **hcsilla** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:52 pm

The Suns bench is not amazing but at least an average one while the Blazers don't have a bench at all which leads to the conclusion that getting the Suns bench means a massive upgrade for them.

cucad8 · Post #26 » by **cucad8** » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:56 pm

dude, it's a no. defend it all you like. Answer is the same. Not happening.

hcsilla · Post #27 » by **hcsilla** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:09 am

cucad8 wrote:dude, it's a no. defend it all you like. Answer is the same. Not happening.

, who do you think you are, the Blazers GM or what? You already told what you could, there is no need to do it again and again.

DusterBuster · Post #28 » by **DusterBuster** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:30 am

hcsilla wrote:
cucad8 wrote:dude, it's a no. defend it all you like. Answer is the same. Not happening.

, who do you think you are, the Blazers GM or what? You already told what you could, there is no need to do it again and again.

He's not the Blazers GM, but Neil Olshey is and this deal goes against everything Olshey has ever said he plans on doing for this team. He's not going to sacrifice the future for a short term gain.

The Blazers would NEVER do this trade. Yes, you're right that the players you're sending to Portland are much better than the Blazers current bench. That's not a big accomplishment. I've seen HS teams that are better than the crap the Blazers are trotting off their bench. So don't pretend like you're doing the Blazers some huge favor here, you're not.

As one of the early posters said, the only way Leonard gets sent to Phoenix is if Gortat is coming back to Portland. Basically end of the discussion there.

NashtyNas · Post #29 » by **NashtyNas** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:28 am

hcsilla wrote:
Village Idiot wrote:I'd be willing to give up Leonard to Phoenix but only if Gortat is coming back.

Almost a complete bench and a future 1st rounder isn't enough for Leonard?

Doesn't matter what Portland says, Suns aren't giving up a load of quality players AND a first for a B-rate prospect and a D-rate prospect, especially when the B-rate prospect plays the same position as our best player. It makes no sense unless we're getting a steal, and giving up 3 quality players along with a first for someone who will likely be a backup C is not worth it. If we were looking to do something like this, we could have easily kept Robin Lopez, but we're not interested.

hcsilla · Post #30 » by **hcsilla** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:38 am

DusterBuster wrote:
hcsilla wrote:
cucad8 wrote:dude, it's a no. defend it all you like. Answer is the same. Not happening.

, who do you think you are, the Blazers GM or what? You already told what you could, there is no need to do it again and again.

He's not the Blazers GM, but Neil Olshey is and this deal goes against everything Olshey has ever said he plans on doing for this team. He's not going to sacrifice the future for a short term gain.

As one of the early posters said, the only way Leonard gets sent to Phoenix is if Gortat is coming back to Portland. Basically end of the discussion there.

Remember that a deal of Gortat for Leonard would be also sacrifying the future for a short term gain so based on what Olshey said the Blazers would NEVER do that trade. Since they have no moveable veterans and want to retain their cap flexibility, they would NEVER do any trade in the next couple of years. Basically end of any discussions regarding the Blazers here on the trade board,

N.O.R.E. · Post #31 » by **N.O.R.E.** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:44 am

^I don't particularly like you or agree with you very often, but you're right, Blazers fans are impossible.

phx#7 · Post #32 » by **phx#7** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:00 am

Hard to blame Blazer fans for not wanting to give up a tangible asset for a questionable asset and a bunch of guys that likely won't be on the team next year. As a Suns fan I'd rather roll the dice on the MIN pick as there appears to be a reasonable chance that it's a mid first in 2014 which I'd prefer over Leonard.

DusterBuster · Post #33 » by **DusterBuster** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:13 am

phx#7 wrote:Hard to blame Blazer fans for not wanting to give up a tangible asset for a questionable asset and a bunch of guys that likely won't be on the team next year. As a Suns fan I'd rather roll the dice on the MIN pick as there appears to be a reasonable chance that it's a mid first in 2014 which I'd prefer over Leonard.

Apparently it's not hard to do as many non-Blazer fans seem to be doing it without question.

NashtyNas · Post #34 » by **NashtyNas** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:31 am

DusterBuster wrote:
phx#7 wrote:Hard to blame Blazer fans for not wanting to give up a tangible asset for a questionable asset and a bunch of guys that likely won't be on the team next year. As a Suns fan I'd rather roll the dice on the MIN pick as there appears to be a reasonable chance that it's a mid first in 2014 which I'd prefer over Leonard.

Apparently it's not hard to do as many non-Blazer fans seem to be doing it without question.

Leonard is a tangible asset? Since when? Do we all of a sudden know what he's going to be? If so, why is Portland in the market for another big (considering he's tangible and we know how good he is or how valuable he is)? Problem is, he's not a tangible asset at all. It's so intangible that not even Portland fans nor their FO know how valuable he can be in the future; they can CLAIM to know, but they don't. With that said, you can't possibly claim that he's worth more than a mid-first round pick, which is only a few spots lower than he was actually picked anyways! Add in the fact that the Blazers manage to nab 3 QUALITY role players that they desperately lack along with that pick, and it's far from terrible value for Leonard.

Blazers fans will cry foul and claim it's not worth it, but it's not that terrible, and in fact, the Suns would be the one's not accepting it because there's absolutely no reason to. As I said before, our best player happens to already play the position that Leonard does, so Leonard would have a hard time seeing minutes with us. Add in the fact that he's probably not much better than Robin Lopez, who we recently decided to part ways with, and it's really a non-starter. No way does a team trade 3 good contributing players AND a pick in return for a B-rate prospect, at best.

Leonard is young, big and athletic, but there are at least 30 other young, athletic bigs I would rather have than Meyers and they wouldn't cost our whole bench and a first.

phx#7 · Post #35 » by **phx#7** » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:02 am

I_Socrates wrote:
Leonard is a tangible asset? Since when?

Since he was drafted. It doesn't really matter what your personal view of his value is the fact remains he is a real player that Blazers fans can see and watch develop who showed promise in SL. He's not some mystery player they may be able to draft in the next 3 years with a pick that converts to 2 2nd round picks if not collected by then.

Personally I'd prefer the MIN pick, but it's perfectly reasonable for Blazer fans to prefer the guy they just drafted.