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Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo

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Post#1 Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:56 pm by celtspacers

Pacers get Rondo a true point guard they need. Celtics get a center Roy Hibbert
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Post#2 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:59 pm by jowglenn

I'm a Pacers fan.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes yes yes yes yes.

Jesus of course yes.
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Post#3 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:09 pm by Curmudgeon

Nah, Hibbert is too expensive.
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Post#4 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:10 pm by Kupchak9

Kind of slim for Boston and Indy wont have any starting caliber Centers

How bout:

INDY out: Hibbert Granger Hill
INDY in: Rondo Gortat Lee

That team is lethal

BOS out: Rondo Sullinger Lee
BOS in: Hibbert Hill

They get younger\

PHO out: Gortat
PHO in: Granger Sullinger

All Star scoring option
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Mars_Blackmon wrote:Lakers could destroy the Heat
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Post#5 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:10 pm by eliasrapp98

Love the reasoning... Pacers get a PG, Celtics get a C. Lol
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SG: Dwyane Wade, Quincy Miller
SF: Iggy, Jordan Hamilton, Corey Brewer
PF: Zach Randolph, Ed Davis, Brittney Griner
Cc: Joakim Noah, Kosta Koufos
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Post#6 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:13 pm by j_angel

I want more value from that as a Boston fan.

Also the addition Sully/Lee for Hill included is a no go.


I think we could get more for Rondo from a team like Utah. Who have young big men to offer + better young assets.
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Post#7 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:51 pm by Curmudgeon

I like Mahinmi. I might trade Rondo for Mahinmi, Paul George and filler, but I doubt if the Pacers do that. Indiana would obviously like to get rid of the overpaid and underperforming Hibbert, but he's not going to fetch Rondo.
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Post#8 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:15 pm by Jon Niednagel

Kupchak9 wrote:Kind of slim for Boston and Indy wont have any starting caliber Centers

How bout:

INDY out: Hibbert Granger Hill
INDY in: Rondo Gortat Lee

That team is lethal

BOS out: Rondo Sullinger Lee
BOS in: Hibbert Hill

They get younger\

PHO out: Gortat
PHO in: Granger Sullinger

All Star scoring option


That trade is worse than the first for the Celtics, and how do you figure they younger? Did I miss the green font?
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Post#9 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:50 pm by hcsilla

There is no way that the Suns give Gortat for Granger and Sullinger.
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Post#10 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:53 pm by old rem

jowglenn wrote:I'm a Pacers fan.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes yes yes yes yes.

Jesus of course yes.


I'm surprised. I would not touch it. You can't GET a 7-2 versatile C who has a good attitude,is young,is healty. A PG? Every year there are a couple.
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Post#11 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:00 pm by old rem

hcsilla wrote:There is no way that the Suns give Gortat for Granger and Sullinger.


You may underestimate Sullinger, who's damn good. I thought the Suns might be the only team that says yes in this.
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Post#12 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:05 pm by hcsilla

I see Sullinger a future nice benchplayer ala Tyler Hansbrough. Even if I underestimate him, the Suns do not need him with Scola, Morris, Beasley and maybe Frye at PF.

But the main problem is Granger and his salary. He and it do not make sense for a rebuilding teams.
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Post#13 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:05 pm by j_angel

Young? hes basically the same age as Rondo.
Versatile?
- He isnt a good offensive player.
- He isnt a good rebounder for his size either. He averages 8.2 rebounds per 28mins. Thats 10.5 per 36. Thats less than 6'9 Jared Sullinger.
- Yes he is a terrific defender, but he isnt versatile. Kevin Garnett is versatile.

You are overselling Hibbert & Undervaluing Rondo.
There two careers are not even comparable to this date.
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Post#14 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:12 pm by j_angel

hcsilla wrote:I see Sullinger a future nice benchplayer ala Tyler Hansbrough. Even if I underestimate him, the Suns do not need him with Scola, Morris, Beasley and maybe Frye at PF.

But the main problem is Granger and his salary. He and it do not make sense for a rebuilding teams.


Sullinger has a way higher ceiling than Hansborough.

Sullinger is 20, just entering the league and putting up 6.1/6 in 20 mins (around 11/10.8 per 36).
Hansborough is 27, seven years old and his best season was 11/5.2 (think he was around 25/26 in that season) in 22 mins. He has not matched those stats since then.

Hansborough is a solid bench player good for 15-20mins a night currently, having been in the league 4 years and being 27. Sullinger is already that at the age of 20.
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Post#15 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:12 pm by pacers33granger

j_angel wrote:Young? hes basically the same age as Rondo.
Versatile?
- He isnt a good offensive player.
- He isnt a good rebounder for his size either. He averages 8.2 rebounds per 28mins. Thats 10.5 per 36. Thats less than 6'9 Jared Sullinger.
- Yes he is a terrific defender, but he isnt versatile. Kevin Garnett is versatile.

You are overselling Hibbert & Undervaluing Rondo.
There two careers are not even comparable to this date.


The issue is mostly that it turns Indy from a large, strong defensive team into a team lacking size. After the trade our center rotation would be Mahinmi and Pendergraph, with West in spot minutes.

Plus it puts Hill on the bench making $8 mil and gives us way to many wing players.
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Post#16 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:20 am by chatard5

As a Pacers fan I think Rondo is more valuable overall than Hibbert, but I do not like the trade for us. Hibbert hasn't been great offensively, and I was expecting about a board per game more from him. But he has been playing EXCELLENT defense.

And I kind of understand why some Pacers would want Hill at the 2. I personally don't like it, though. And if Hill does move to the 2 we would have to trade Granger. I don't think his stock is too high right now. But if he can come back and play good defense he could be huge for us. We can somehow get a little better defensively and then add Lance Stephenson to the bench and have him come off the bench and score 10 points per game. And this is now Paul George's team. If Hill can penetrate and we move the ball well we have Granger and Paul George who are both going to make open 3s.

But I don't want Ian Mihinmi starting and then Plumlee backing him up. Right now obviously our strength is defense and size. Why give up Hibbert and lose both of those?

And I saw someone say we obviously want to get rid of Hibbert. I disagree with this. He has been one of the best defensive centers in the league this year. I think he is overpaid, but he is needed if we want to go anywhere in the playoffs. I think his offense will improve, he just needs to make 1.5 shots more per game which I think is very possible when Granger comes back.

Bottom line is what team gives the Pacers the best chance to beat the Heat? That is one with size that can rebound. They said today on ESPN that Granger said he thinks he will be back a little bit before the all-star game. So then he would start at the 2 and Hill would come off the bench? And if we go small our lineup would be great: Rondo, Hill, Granger/George at the 3/4, and West. But our forte is defense, and I think our current lineup with Granger added in and Lance coming off the bench gives us a much better shot at beating the Heat.

So if we really want to move George Hill to the 2, which I don't know why many Pacer fans do, we'd have to trade Granger. I don't see Boston wanting him. We can add in a first rounder that Boston would get and make it a 3-teamer, but I don't know what that would even be. Plus I don't think Granger's stock is too high right now-no way is Granger and a late 1st worth Rondo. Another side note for Pacer fans: Don't be surprised if in the playoffs Paul George brings the ball up late in games like Lebron often does. That way Hill can be at the 2. Granger can possibly bring the ball up as well. But Paul George is already a stud and just getting better.

So while I do think Hibbert is overpaid and bugs the crap out of me often, he is just too important defensively. There aren't many good big mean in the league and Hibbert has improved a lot defensively since the Heat series. I also think the Pacers coaches learned a lot from that series. The Heat wanted to come to Indy and beat us-they remembered the series and there was a little bit of talk. But our size was too much and we got so many offensive rebounds. Either way I don't think we will beat the Heat (this year; but if George continues to improve he should be starting in the all-star game. And if Granger is healthy he should get open shots and can play very good defense. So once that team gels we have a shot at the Heat. Like I said I don't think it'll be this year, but possible, and a good shot next year if we are healthy), but to have a chance we need Hibbert. Hopefully his offense will come around.
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Post#17 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:49 am by winter_mute_13

^Good post chatard5. I agree with most of it.

old rem wrote:
jowglenn wrote:I'm a Pacers fan.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes yes yes yes yes.

Jesus of course yes.


I'm surprised. I would not touch it. You can't GET a 7-2 versatile C who has a good attitude,is young,is healty. A PG? Every year there are a couple.


Rondo is a difference maker on offense, and not a bad defender himself. He's having a down year (by his standards), but I think he's still clearly more valuable than Hibbert, even with scarcity of big men taken into account. I don't want the Pacers to trade Hibbert, but if they were, I'd want to get back someone like Rondo.

I'd be very wary of making this trade for the reasons chatard5 states, and in addition going from a good guy in Hibbert to Rondo (who's euphemistically described as "moody") can't be too good for the locker room. For a chemistry team like the Pacers, a Rondo type is a big risk.

So while I'd think deeply about this deal, I ultimately will probably say no to it.
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Post#18 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:54 am by Pacersike

Rondo for Hibbert?
Easy yes for me. You can even add Granger and Gortat if you want. No Hill.

The Pacers are a great defensive team and Hibbert is a big part of that, but he is also a big reason why good outsideshooting and pick and roll teams have our number. How many gamewinning outside/midrange shots are there compared with gamewining dunks and layups? No, late in games in the playoffs, driving the lane becomes very difficult for every team facing a good team and quickness becomes much more of a factor than early on.

I'll take the big upgrade in creating offense and small downgrade in defense.
Mahinmi isn't that much worse defensively and the upgrade from Stephenson to Rondo is definitely significant.
It also helps that Rondo is cheaper and not mentally soft.
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Post#19 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:23 am by yoadknux

I like this idea.

Maybe a 3-way trade with the Wiz that sends Okafor to Indy for someone, maybe George Hill also?
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Post#20 Re: Pacers Celtics Hibbert Rondo
Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:42 am by Pacersike

winter_mute_13 wrote:I'd be very wary of making this trade for the reasons chatard5 states, and in addition going from a good guy in Hibbert to Rondo (who's euphemistically described as "moody") can't be too good for the locker room. For a chemistry team like the Pacers, a Rondo type is a big risk.

Big risk for what? Not every difficult character guy goes knocking down fans in the stands or wants to shoot in public.

If it doesn't effect his performances on the court in a bad way and he doesn't do anything criminal (that most other players don't do), I can take it.

I still remember Pritchard's first words about Gerald Green. He said he is a good character guy and I was thinking so what? A good character should be a bonus, not a good reason to sign someone.
Mental toughness is important and Rondo has lots of that. Mental toughness is a big reason why Celtics are so good in the postseason.

Time to put the demons of the past behind us and not assume that every player with a moody character is going to screw this franchise again. I'm not going to deny Rondo has a difficult character, but where is the harm he is causing the Celtics, except for maybe some headaches?
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