RealGM

^^^

Orlando, by rights, shouldn't have got anything close to that for him, given he is an upcoming FA. Indy got Barbosa for a late-2nd last year and I can't fathom how Redick's value is that much higher.

jarryd3107 wrote:^^^

Orlando, by rights, shouldn't have got anything close to that for him, given he is an upcoming FA. Indy got Barbosa for a late-2nd last year and I can't fathom how Redick's value is that much higher.

You mean other then the fact that barbosa is out for the season?

The Rebel wrote:

jarryd3107 wrote:^^^

Orlando, by rights, shouldn't have got anything close to that for him, given he is an upcoming FA. Indy got Barbosa for a late-2nd last year and I can't fathom how Redick's value is that much higher.

You mean other then the fact that barbosa is out for the season?

Yes, I thought it was clear I was comparing the Barbosa-Indiana trade last year to the Redick-Bucks trade this year.

Because Redick is much, much better than Barbosa?

Milwaukee gets a steal talent-wise, and Redick should fit in with Jennings well. He's a bit older but should be a solid, steadying presence for the Bucks. ORL gets one prospect worth mentioning, but its better than nothing. Like it for both teams

JJ remains a very underrated player.. @ .590 TS% and a 2:1
Ast/to ratio. Scoring 15 pts per and 4.5 assists per, so its not in minimal playing time either.

Bucks focusing on locking down that first round exit vs the Heat. 4-0 sweep. Best trade of the day sadly.

Pretty dumb trade. We could get the 8th seed without him and we have the cap to get him in the offseason. I think Tobes will show well in Orlando, you guys will like him.

yeah everyone said the magic got a buncha scrubs for dwight howard to, henny knows what he's doing

Orlando got 3 intriguing young players for a one-dimensional FA-to-be, a back-up PF and a 3rd-string PG.

This requires a very, very generous definition of young, and a pretty generous definition of intriguing. I'd be just as intrigued by Ayon as by Lamb, IMO.

Magic fans seemed much higher on Redick a couple of days ago: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1233902&p=34773925

Prospect Dong wrote:

Orlando got 3 intriguing young players for a one-dimensional FA-to-be, a back-up PF and a 3rd-string PG.

This requires a very, very generous definition of young, and a pretty generous definition of intriguing. I'd be just as intrigued by Ayon as by Lamb, IMO.

Magic fans seemed much higher on Redick a couple of days ago: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1233902&p=34773925

generous definition of young? Harris is 20, Lamb is 21. Yes, Udrih isnt a teenager, but the 1st two are definitely young.

tiderulz wrote:

Prospect Dong wrote:

Orlando got 3 intriguing young players for a one-dimensional FA-to-be, a back-up PF and a 3rd-string PG.

This requires a very, very generous definition of young, and a pretty generous definition of intriguing. I'd be just as intrigued by Ayon as by Lamb, IMO.

Magic fans seemed much higher on Redick a couple of days ago: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1233902&p=34773925

generous definition of young? Harris is 20, Lamb is 21. Yes, Udrih isnt a teenager, but the 1st two are definitely young.

Lamb isn't interesting though. Given a choice between the 60th pick in the draft and D. Lamb... I'd take the pick.

Harris is a viable asset, you could probably get a late 1st for him on draft day if you wanted to.

I think there's just some confusion from non-Orlando fans who read the thread (link above), and heard Orlando fans pooping on a proposed package that was arguably better than what they got.

Hammond shoulda kept Harris and offered a 2nd + cash considerations instead

tiderulz wrote:

Prospect Dong wrote:

Orlando got 3 intriguing young players for a one-dimensional FA-to-be, a back-up PF and a 3rd-string PG.

This requires a very, very generous definition of young, and a pretty generous definition of intriguing. I'd be just as intrigued by Ayon as by Lamb, IMO.

Magic fans seemed much higher on Redick a couple of days ago: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1233902&p=34773925

generous definition of young? Harris is 20, Lamb is 21. Yes, Udrih isnt a teenager, but the 1st two are definitely young.

Sure, two young players, and one intriguing one. Maybe two young and two intruiging, if you're being generous. But not:

3 intriguing young players

Hence my (pretty self-explanatory) correction.

Golabki wrote:

tiderulz wrote:generous definition of young? Harris is 20, Lamb is 21. Yes, Udrih isnt a teenager, but the 1st two are definitely young.

Lamb isn't interesting though. Given a choice between the 60th pick in the draft and D. Lamb... I'd take the pick.

Harris is a viable asset, you could probably get a late 1st for him on draft day if you wanted to.

I think there's just some confusion from non-Orlando fans who read the thread (link above), and heard Orlando fans pooping on a proposed package that was arguably better than what they got.

so Lamb has half a year in the league under a coach not known for really playing youth and he isnt good? possibly i guess, but easily someone worth a flyer on. Maybe he develops with Orlando. Vucevic didnt look like he does now with Philly last year.

tiderulz wrote:

Golabki wrote:

tiderulz wrote:generous definition of young? Harris is 20, Lamb is 21. Yes, Udrih isnt a teenager, but the 1st two are definitely young.

Lamb isn't interesting though. Given a choice between the 60th pick in the draft and D. Lamb... I'd take the pick.

Harris is a viable asset, you could probably get a late 1st for him on draft day if you wanted to.

I think there's just some confusion from non-Orlando fans who read the thread (link above), and heard Orlando fans pooping on a proposed package that was arguably better than what they got.

so Lamb has half a year in the league under a coach not known for really playing youth and he isnt good? possibly i guess, but easily someone worth a flyer on. Maybe he develops with Orlando. Vucevic didnt look like he does now with Philly last year.

Well... we're talking about a mid-second rounder, who hasn't looked effective in the NBA or the NBDL. You'd be lucky to get a late 2nd for him. His value is a close to zero as possible. He might become an viable NBA player, but there are equally "interesting" players with no NBA contract.

...given a choice between Lamb and Jerel McNeal for my 15 roster spot, I'd take McNeal.

buckboy wrote:^^

That seems to be the Bucks plan. Spend a ton of money to be average. It's wonderful being a Bucks fan.

In this deal, I think you're overvaluing what Milwaukee gave up. Harris has a chance to be a rotation player. Udrih is useful in a different settting (3rd string emergency point guard on a good team). Lamb is garbage.

I'd be surprised if anyone Orlando got became a good player for them.

I have no hostility for the bucks. However, you are wholly overestimating what we gave the bucks. Ish is damn quick, but he blows. Ayon is atrocious. JJ is a great
Player IMHO and I'm not bein a homer. He works his tail off day in day out. Always improving.

The bucks roster confuses me so I don't know how he will
Fit, but I happily take the young and unplayed players you gave us.

Orlando wins. We avoided an awkward situation in the offseason with having to resign or match offers for reddick, while continuing the tank and getting rid of what we already know are players who don't fit. I may be delusional but we will win a chip before Charlotte or Milwaukee. And this trade helped us in Our rebuild to do so.

No way Orlando wins. Yes, they got a little something for a player who wasn't going to stay, but that was their own choosing and their own doing. Salvaging a little value isn't a win, its making the best of a situation.

MIL OTOH got the best player in the deal, and likely the best overall player when its all said and done. Lamb - and sorry Bucks fans - sucks. He just sucks, he doesnt belong on an NBA court right now. And if he does put it together, it's almost assured it wont be on his rookie deal, and thus the entire NBA will have a crack at him. Tobias Harris is the value piece, and I can kinda see why MIL soured on him. He goes a little Anthony Randolphish sometimes. But he's a great FT shooter for a slasher and that can definitely retain some value. That said, I'll take an elite efficiency PG/SG type over that.

And then you factor in free agents and team-building. Both teams need to make good trades and draft well, because they aren't FA hot-spots. The Bucks just gave themselves a significant advantage in retaining Redick through his prime. And a guy who fits well on paper with their likely franchise player, Brandon Jennings. They did very well for what looks to be a long-term prospect.

FireNellieQuick wrote:No way Orlando wins. Yes, they got a little something for a player who wasn't going to stay, but that was their own choosing and their own doing. Salvaging a little value isn't a win, its making the best of a situation.

MIL OTOH got the best player in the deal, and likely the best overall player when its all said and done. Lamb - and sorry Bucks fans - sucks. He just sucks, he doesnt belong on an NBA court right now. And if he does put it together, it's almost assured it wont be on his rookie deal, and thus the entire NBA will have a crack at him. Tobias Harris is the value piece, and I can kinda see why MIL soured on him. He goes a little Anthony Randolphish sometimes. But he's a great FT shooter for a slasher and that can definitely retain some value. That said, I'll take an elite efficiency PG/SG type over that.

And then you factor in free agents and team-building. Both teams need to make good trades and draft well, because they aren't FA hot-spots. The Bucks just gave themselves a significant advantage in retaining Redick through his prime. And a guy who fits well on paper with their likely franchise player, Brandon Jennings. They did very well for what looks to be a long-term prospect.

I guess Tracy Mcgrady and Grant Hill were not big free agents signings. I would like to read the big Warriors signings.

There is no way Orlando lost the trade, they got some decent assets for a guy they weren't going to resign, it can only get better for them. What does this accomplish for the Bucks? We're not making it out of the 1st round this year and we're going to have to spend a lot of money on Redick to retain him(he isn't taking a discount to stay in Milwaukee), so what is the upside for us? The Bucks risk a lot for not much gain and Orlando risks absolutely nothing. JJ Redick's prime? What is that? 16 ppg on a the 2nd to worst team in the league and ??? on the most mediocre team? Color me unimpressed. What is the realistic direction of this team? I think there is a decent chance Tobias Harris become a more than competent NBA player and if that happens this trade becomes that much more lopsided. I think if we sign Redick to the 10m a year that he wants, we'll be on this trade board a year or two from now looking to dump him because our team is going nowhere.

SEBAS-07 wrote:
I guess Tracy Mcgrady and Grant Hill were not big free agents signings. I would like to read the big Warriors signings.

I must have confused Orlando with that other team that lost a big name FA to be really recently.

I'm not bragging, it is what it is. Congrats on having the whole state tax benefit and all, but if that's a concern, why wouldnt stars go to Miami?

Even though that argument is about 2.5 years too late..

JayMKE wrote:There is no way Orlando lost the trade, they got some decent assets for a guy they weren't going to resign, it can only get better for them.

They lost it because Redick is worth more than a long term prospect, or should be. But they waited until now to get a deal done, and because of that, lost value. A good salvage doesn't make it a good deal.

What does this accomplish for the Bucks? We're not making it out of the 1st round this year and we're going to have to spend a lot of money on Redick to retain him(he isn't taking a discount to stay in Milwaukee), so what is the upside for us? The Bucks risk a lot for not much gain and Orlando risks absolutely nothing. JJ Redick's prime? What is that? 16 ppg on a the 2nd to worst team in the league and ??? on the most mediocre team? Color me unimpressed. What is the realistic direction of this team? I think there is a decent chance Tobias Harris become a more than competent NBA player and if that happens this trade becomes that much more lopsided. I think if we sign Redick to the 10m a year that he wants, we'll be on this trade board a year or two from now looking to dump him because our team is going nowhere.

No arguments on the team's prospects this year, but you are forgetting that you have a lot of momentum to retain Redick now with the new CBA. The main two reasons being a 5th year, and a 7.5% increase rate vs. a 4.5 increase rate from the rest of the NBA. Tobias Harris, no matter how optimistic you are about youth / pessimistic about everything else Bucks related, isn't a lot. He's a long-term prospect at best.

Redick, btw, is not only putting up those solid #s, he's doing it with ruthless efficiency, something you guys sorely need. .590+ TS% is not something to overlook.

The direction of the team is trickier. I know every middle of the road team wants to blow it up and try and get a #1 pick, trying to be OKC. But the Bucks 'assets' just dont have enough value right now to justify shopping for younger talent. Hell, they are closer to a rebuild than a retool right now. Excellent long-term prospects in Jennings-Henson-Sanders. But you need stabilizing presences to get them playing the right way, and Redick's been in the playoffs quite a bit, and been good at it. Blaming him for the Magic's rebuild isn't really fair, as he and Afflalo are really the two best players they have. That's never good. For Milwaukee, he'll likely be 4th. That puts him in a great position to fly under the radar enough to get good looks, but doesn't over-use him and curb his efficiency.

Get back at me when you've signed him to a 4 year deal for less than 10m per... and take a mental note of Jennings' efficiency ratings right now (basketball-reference.com would be a good one) and see JJ's effect on that for the rest of the year.