Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day)

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Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#1 » by crazybranman360 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:23 pm

Cleveland Trades: #1 Pick (assuming top 7) + Mo Speights
Cleveland Gets: Al Horford
Why? Give Kyrie some help. The draft is weak so your not giving up a top blue chip prospect and a core of Kyrie-Waiters-Horford-Varejao can be a potential title contender. They can either try to pair Thompson with Horford or trade him for other needs.


Hawks Trade: Al Horford
Hawks Get: Cavs #1 + Mo Speights
Why? If they do land Dwight + JSmith: They're going to have to trade Horford anyways + they get a nice young player to pair with them

If they don't get Dwight + JSmith: they get a top pick + can tank for next years stacked draft class
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#2 » by Wasabi_Johnson » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:45 pm

crazybranman360 wrote:Why? If they do land Dwight + JSmith: They're going to have to trade Horford anyways + they get a nice young player to pair with them

Why would they have to?
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#3 » by crazybranman360 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:55 pm

Wasabi_Johnson wrote:
crazybranman360 wrote:Why? If they do land Dwight + JSmith: They're going to have to trade Horford anyways + they get a nice young player to pair with them

Why would they have to?


I don't think its a great idea to play Smith-Horford-Dwight together on the front line. You need some spacing
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#4 » by ATL Boy » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:10 pm

In this class I think we can get a top 5 pick for Horford so pass
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#5 » by theatlfan » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:25 pm

crazybranman360 wrote:I don't think its a great idea to play Smith-Horford-Dwight together on the front line. You need some spacing
Please explain how Horford wouldn't provide spacing? He's actually a pretty good mid-to-long range shooter.

BTW, IF we land D12, I doubt we'll have the cap room for both him and Smoove on top of our (scant) current commitments. In the scenario where we land Howard, then we'd keep Horford for floor spacing unless Dwight made it clear he wanted to play with Smith. That scenario would not play out by Draft Day though - leaving this deal absolutely out of the question.
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#6 » by tcorbin » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:58 pm

Wasabi_Johnson wrote:
crazybranman360 wrote:Why? If they do land Dwight + JSmith: They're going to have to trade Horford anyways + they get a nice young player to pair with them

Why would they have to?


Hypothetically, if Horford's contract is traded for a rookie contract, it would allow the Hawks to offer three full max contacts to Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, and Chris Paul.

They can then use the pick to get, Nerlens Noel, Marcus Smart, Shabazz, or McLemore

Dwight Howard
Nerlens Noel
Josh Smith
Louis Williams
Chris Paul

or

Dwight Howard
Josh Smith
Kyle Korver
Marcus Smart
Chris Paul

it is a very very risky move, so i wouldn't do it, but that would be the logic behind it. I think Dwight/Horford/Smith is good enough for a championship, so no need for such a risky move.
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#7 » by Leto » Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:00 pm

IF they get Howard and Smith to sign, they will want to trade Horford, but not because of "spacing." They'll want to trade him for other parts that fit together better like a SF and a SG.
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#8 » by ATL Boy » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:02 pm

We have cap space to sign Josh and Dwight this summer to max deals, we have 41 million in cap space, the problem would be that if we deal out those max contracts we probably won't be able to resign Teague who we really like, I'm sure we'll try to convince Josh and Dwight to take a 2-3 mil pay cut each to be able to resign Jeff. We'll still have Lou Williams under contract as well as our promising rookie John Jenkins, then we have 4 picks this year if Houston makes the playoffs which seems likely. (2 in the first round.) We'd also probably resign Korver because he'd be a perfect fit with a dominant C like Dwight.

PG: Teague
SG: Jenkins
SF: Smith
PF: Horford
C: Howard
Bench: Draft Picks, Kyle Korver, Lou Williams, Jeremy Tyler, and a few min guys/guys who took a pay cut to play here.

There's no need in trading Horford, he'd be great next to Dwight and is worth more than the picks in this draft, Smith has proven that he can play SF and we'll have Jenkins/Korver to man the SG spot
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#9 » by TheOUTLAW » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:17 pm

I don't think the Cavs do this since they are taking on long term salary and while they need size they really need a center
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#10 » by RoyalWun » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:47 pm

tcorbin wrote:
Wasabi_Johnson wrote:
crazybranman360 wrote:Why? If they do land Dwight + JSmith: They're going to have to trade Horford anyways + they get a nice young player to pair with them

Why would they have to?


Hypothetically, if Horford's contract is traded for a rookie contract, it would allow the Hawks to offer three full max contacts to Dwight Howard, Josh Smith, and Chris Paul.

They can then use the pick to get, Nerlens Noel, Marcus Smart, Shabazz, or McLemore

Dwight Howard
Nerlens Noel
Josh Smith
Louis Williams
Chris Paul

or

Dwight Howard
Josh Smith
Kyle Korver
Marcus Smart
Chris Paul

it is a very very risky move, so i wouldn't do it, but that would be the logic behind it. I think Dwight/Horford/Smith is good enough for a championship, so no need for such a risky move.


I know you said hypothetically, but there is an extremely small chance Paul is leaving the Clippers.
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#11 » by mcfly1204 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:53 pm

I wonder if Ferry would want Varejao going to Atlanta instead of Speights.
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#12 » by ATL Boy » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:20 pm

mcfly1204 wrote:I wonder if Ferry would want Varejao going to Atlanta instead of Speights.

Varejao instead of Speights would be ALOT more enticing
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#13 » by rjgraca » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:49 pm

Since the Cavs are looking for cap space in 2014 and don't need another PF(As mentioned, a Center would be more valuable)--- IMO, the Cavs pass.
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#14 » by theatlfan » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:28 am

rjgraca wrote:Since the Cavs are looking for cap space in 2014 and don't need another PF(As mentioned, a Center would be more valuable)--- IMO, the Cavs pass.
Not trying to be rude - just a ?: what is CLE planning on doing with cap space? Resign LeBron? Is there another target y'all are eying?
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#15 » by parson » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:38 am

Leto wrote:IF they get Howard and Smith to sign, they will want to trade Horford, but not because of "spacing." They'll want to trade him for other parts that fit together better like a SF and a SG.

Josh Smith is a good defender at SF and we love Korver and Jenkins (and Lou Williams) at SG.

Howard/Horford/Smith would be the best frontline in the NBA.
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#16 » by witnessraps » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:59 am

pretty sure horford is a key piece for the hawks moving forward and they decline this trade easily.
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#17 » by crazybranman360 » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:26 am

If Atlanta stared Smith-Horford-Dwight everybody would just collapse the paint on them the same way they do to Memphis this year. To have 3 post players on the front line just doesn't work (see 2011 knicks). Smith would basically be forced out to the perimeter where he can shoot jumpers all day, the absolute worst scenario for him. Horford provides good spacing for Dwight, Smith provides good spacing for Dwight but together? It would be disasterous.

The other aspect of this is that they would need other pieces, Dwight + Josh alone can't win you a title, they need starting wings, a bench, etc.

And what if they don't get Dwight? Doesn't this trade seem even better for ATL because you don't want to be stuck in the middle w/ Horford and this gives you an oppurtunity to start to build a new core
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#18 » by parson » Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:43 am

crazybranman360 wrote:If Atlanta stared Smith-Horford-Dwight everybody would just collapse the paint on them the same way they do to Memphis this year. To have 3 post players on the front line just doesn't work (see 2011 knicks). Smith would basically be forced out to the perimeter where he can shoot jumpers all day, the absolute worst scenario for him. Horford provides good spacing for Dwight, Smith provides good spacing for Dwight but together? It would be disasterous.

The other aspect of this is that they would need other pieces, Dwight + Josh alone can't win you a title, they need starting wings, a bench, etc.

And what if they don't get Dwight? Doesn't this trade seem even better for ATL because you don't want to be stuck in the middle w/ Horford and this gives you an oppurtunity to start to build a new core

You've got another think coming. You wasted your 1st think.

AL Horford is one of the best mid-range shooters in the NBA.
Kyle Korver is the best 3pt shooter in the NBA (46.2%).
Jeff Teague is shooting 37.1% from 3.
John Jenkins was the best college shooter last year and is presently shooting 40.3% from 3.
Even Josh Smith is shooting 33.9% from 3.

The Atlanta Hawks are the 5th-best 3pt shooting team in the NBA, at 38%. We also take the 5th-most attempts from 3. Nobody takes and makes better than we do. We are wonderfully set up for Howard's inside-out game. Some people think Ferry did that on purpose, ya know.

Just imagine what our (already very good) 3pt shooters would look like if they got wide open looks because "everybody would just collapse the paint" - pretty good, huh?
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#19 » by tcorbin » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:08 am

crazybranman360 wrote:If Atlanta stared Smith-Horford-Dwight everybody would just collapse the paint on them the same way they do to Memphis this year. To have 3 post players on the front line just doesn't work (see 2011 knicks). Smith would basically be forced out to the perimeter where he can shoot jumpers all day, the absolute worst scenario for him. Horford provides good spacing for Dwight, Smith provides good spacing for Dwight but together? It would be disasterous.

The other aspect of this is that they would need other pieces, Dwight + Josh alone can't win you a title, they need starting wings, a bench, etc.

And what if they don't get Dwight? Doesn't this trade seem even better for ATL because you don't want to be stuck in the middle w/ Horford and this gives you an oppurtunity to start to build a new core


...... you make a really good point there
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Re: Al Horford to Cleveland (Draft Day) 

Post#20 » by jvalanciunas » Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:15 am

crazybranman360 wrote:If Atlanta stared Smith-Horford-Dwight everybody would just collapse the paint on them the same way they do to Memphis this year. To have 3 post players on the front line just doesn't work (see 2011 knicks). Smith would basically be forced out to the perimeter where he can shoot jumpers all day, the absolute worst scenario for him. Horford provides good spacing for Dwight, Smith provides good spacing for Dwight but together? It would be disasterous.

The other aspect of this is that they would need other pieces, Dwight + Josh alone can't win you a title, they need starting wings, a bench, etc.

And what if they don't get Dwight? Doesn't this trade seem even better for ATL because you don't want to be stuck in the middle w/ Horford and this gives you an oppurtunity to start to build a new core


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