SAC - ORL

[bpcox05]

SAC Gets:
Arron Afflalo

ORL Gets:
Isaiah Thomas (sign and trade)

Why for SAC?
The Kings need players who can defend and stretch the floor. Afflalo is just the guy for the job. McLemore was torched on defense and struggled knocking down his shot all year. McLemore should not be starting at this point in time. Afflalo gives them a legitimate SG to put next to Cousins and Gay.

Why for ORL?
Thomas will be a solid PG to add to the rotation. If the Magic draft either Exum (or Smart), a guard rotation of Exum/Oladipo/Thomas would be very formidable for years to come.

[loserX]

Who do you foresee playing PG for the Kings? The other one of Exum or Smart? Otherwise if you make this trade you're dancing near the tax line with Ray McCallum as the only PG on the roster.

Don't much like it for Orlando anyway. They're better off giving IT an offer sheet and daring the Kings to match.

[Gomagic44]

I like IT but I agree with loserx. My other issue with him is his size. I for one was never a big fan of jameer. But I haven't checked IT's stats this year.

Not a bad trade overall.

[bpcox05]

I think this trade works well for the Magic no matter who they draft with their first round picks.

All of these guard rotations would be complimentary:
1. Exum/Oladipo/Thomas
2. Smart/Oladipo/Thomas
3. LaVine/Oladipo/Thomas
4. Ennis/Oladipo/Thomas
4. Thomas/Oladipo/Harris
5. Thomas/Oladipo/Young

I think these two potential rotations would be solid moving forward:
PG - Exum/Thomas
SG - Oladipo/Lamb
SF - Harkless/R. Hood
PF - Harris/Nicholson
C - Vucevic/O'Quinn

or

PG - Thomas
SG - Oladipo/Lamb
Sf - Harkless/R. Hood
PF - Harris/Nicholson
C - Embiid/Vucevic/O'Quinn

[jowglenn]

This is definitely interesting. I do think it's somewhat contingent on what Sacramento does with their pick, as this leaves their PG rotation pretty weak with only Ray McCallum (I like him, but... you need another guy for sure).

I could absolutely see Marcus Smart being there at 7 (say it goes wiggins/embiid/parker/exum/randle/vonlehorgordon). So if Sacramento is taking Smart, then this is a good move - get value for Thomas while he has high value.

[bpcox05]

Who do you foresee playing PG for the Kings? The other one of Exum or Smart? Otherwise if you make this trade you're dancing near the tax line with Ray McCallum as the only PG on the roster.

Don't much like it for Orlando anyway. They're better off giving IT an offer sheet and daring the Kings to match.

I get the feeling that Orlando would like to cut ties with Afflalo. If they were just trying to sign Thomas outright, it wouldn't give them the option of getting rid of Afflalo's contract. That's where I see the incentive coming. That and the fact that they might not be able to steal Thomas away, and if they were unsuccessful in stealing, all they would have done is drive Thomas' price up if they were to revisit a sign and trade.

Kings could either replace their PG with a rookie, MLE (depending on the tax level), or move McLemore for one.

[tiderulz]

Who do you foresee playing PG for the Kings? The other one of Exum or Smart? Otherwise if you make this trade you're dancing near the tax line with Ray McCallum as the only PG on the roster.

Don't much like it for Orlando anyway. They're better off giving IT an offer sheet and daring the Kings to match.

I get the feeling that Orlando would like to cut ties with Afflalo. If they were just trying to sign Thomas outright, it wouldn't give them the option of getting rid of Afflalo's contract. That's where I see the incentive coming. That and the fact that they might not be able to steal Thomas away, and if they were unsuccessful in stealing, all they would have done is drive Thomas' price up if they were to revisit a sign and trade.

Kings could either replace their PG with a rookie, MLE (depending on the tax level), or move McLemore for one.

if Orlando wanted to trade AA just to trade him, they could. IT gets destroyed regularly on defense. And then we move a slightly undersized Oladipo back to SG. no thanks.

as mentioned earlier, if Orlando really wanted IT (and i dont believe they do) they could just give an offer sheet to IT and see if Sacramento matches it, then move on to another PG. and i believe if they make an offer sheet that Sacramento matches, they cant try to trade for him for a year.

[bpcox05]

Who do you foresee playing PG for the Kings? The other one of Exum or Smart? Otherwise if you make this trade you're dancing near the tax line with Ray McCallum as the only PG on the roster.

Don't much like it for Orlando anyway. They're better off giving IT an offer sheet and daring the Kings to match.

I get the feeling that Orlando would like to cut ties with Afflalo. If they were just trying to sign Thomas outright, it wouldn't give them the option of getting rid of Afflalo's contract. That's where I see the incentive coming. That and the fact that they might not be able to steal Thomas away, and if they were unsuccessful in stealing, all they would have done is drive Thomas' price up if they were to revisit a sign and trade.

Kings could either replace their PG with a rookie, MLE (depending on the tax level), or move McLemore for one.

if Orlando wanted to trade AA just to trade him, they could. IT gets destroyed regularly on defense. And then we move a slightly undersized Oladipo back to SG. no thanks.

as mentioned earlier, if Orlando really wanted IT (and i dont believe they do) they could just give an offer sheet to IT and see if Sacramento matches it, then move on to another PG. and i believe if they make an offer sheet that Sacramento matches, they cant try to trade for him for a year.

Oladipo is not undersized at SG. He's 6'4" in shoes, has a 6'9" wingspan, and weighs 215lbs.

You're right. Thomas does struggle defensively, but that's the beauty of Oladipo. You have a guy who can guard the 1 or 2 to best neutralize the opposing teams best guard while Thomas is out there racking up the points.

If the Magic draft Exum or Smart, Thomas come come in off the bench as en elite sixth man. At the point his defense wouldn't hurt the team as much considering he would be going against second units for a good chunk of the game.

[tiderulz]

6'4 is a bit undersized for a SG nowadays. And Oladipo cant guard 2 positions at once, whoever he doesnt guard will just score on IT. Magic would be better off keeping AA for 1 more year and let Exum/Smart come off the bench learning the pro game behind Oladipo and AA.

I dont know where all these Thomas to Orlando trade ideas are coming from. Orlando has shown no interest in him and after 10 years of watching our short PG in Nelson get constantly beaten, we dont want to see more of it.

[bpcox05]

6'4 is a bit undersized for a SG nowadays. And Oladipo cant guard 2 positions at once, whoever he doesnt guard will just score on IT. Magic would be better off keeping AA for 1 more year and let Exum/Smart come off the bench learning the pro game behind Oladipo and AA.

I dont know where all these Thomas to Orlando trade ideas are coming from. Orlando has shown no interest in him and after 10 years of watching our short PG in Nelson get constantly beaten, we dont want to see more of it.

Not when you have a 6'9" wingspan. That gives him so much more length. If he was built similarly to Marcus Thornton (6'4" in shoes with a 6'5" wingspan), I would agree with you.

Whoever Oladipo doesn't guard will just score on Thomas? Are you referring to every time down the floor? Because that's just plain silly. Is he a poor defender? Yes. Is he completely incompetent? No. You put him on a player who isn't great at dribble penetration, and he will be just fine. That's why if you put him in the second unit, you neutralize his weakness (defense), while reaping all of the awards of his strengths (scoring the ball).

[tiderulz]

6'4 is a bit undersized for a SG nowadays. And Oladipo cant guard 2 positions at once, whoever he doesnt guard will just score on IT. Magic would be better off keeping AA for 1 more year and let Exum/Smart come off the bench learning the pro game behind Oladipo and AA.

I dont know where all these Thomas to Orlando trade ideas are coming from. Orlando has shown no interest in him and after 10 years of watching our short PG in Nelson get constantly beaten, we dont want to see more of it.

Not when you have a 6'9" wingspan. That gives him so much more length. If he was built similarly to Marcus Thornton (6'4" in shoes with a 6'5" wingspan), I would agree with you.

Whoever Oladipo doesn't guard will just score on Thomas? Are you referring to every time down the floor? Because that's just plain silly. Is he a poor defender? Yes. Is he completely incompetent? No. You put him on a player who isn't great at dribble penetration, and he will be just fine. That's why if you put him in the second unit, you neutralize his weakness (defense), while reaping all of the awards of his strengths (scoring the ball).

so you want Orlando to trade a starter and top-4 SG in the east last year for a backup/6th man? And Thomas isnt want to get paid like a 6th man.

again, Orlando isnt as desperate to trade AA as you seem to think they are

[bpcox05]

6'4 is a bit undersized for a SG nowadays. And Oladipo cant guard 2 positions at once, whoever he doesnt guard will just score on IT. Magic would be better off keeping AA for 1 more year and let Exum/Smart come off the bench learning the pro game behind Oladipo and AA.

I dont know where all these Thomas to Orlando trade ideas are coming from. Orlando has shown no interest in him and after 10 years of watching our short PG in Nelson get constantly beaten, we dont want to see more of it.

Not when you have a 6'9" wingspan. That gives him so much more length. If he was built similarly to Marcus Thornton (6'4" in shoes with a 6'5" wingspan), I would agree with you.

Whoever Oladipo doesn't guard will just score on Thomas? Are you referring to every time down the floor? Because that's just plain silly. Is he a poor defender? Yes. Is he completely incompetent? No. You put him on a player who isn't great at dribble penetration, and he will be just fine. That's why if you put him in the second unit, you neutralize his weakness (defense), while reaping all of the awards of his strengths (scoring the ball).

so you want Orlando to trade a starter and top-4 SG in the east last year for a backup/6th man? And Thomas isnt want to get paid like a 6th man.

again, Orlando isnt as desperate to trade AA as you seem to think they are

Yes I do.

The Magic already have their starting SG of the future (Oladipo). He's not a PG. He's a good ball handler and passer at SG, but he shouldn't be in control of running an offense. He can be a spot PG here and there, but again, he should not be relied upon as the future PG. So that means you either keep Afflalo at SG and try to force your talented rookie into a position he shouldn't be playing (PG), play both Afflalo and Oladipo at SG and limit the minutes/development time of Oladipo, play the 6'5" Afflalo at SF (talk about underszied), or move Afflalo for a better fitting piece that can be included in the future plans of this team.

Also in regards to your point about how Thomas isn't going to want to be paid like a 6th man, well Thomas has absolutely no say in the matter. He is a RESTRICTED free agent. The market decides his value. Let's eliminate all of the teams that won't have cap space next year:

1. Brooklyn
2. Chicago
3. Denver
4. Houston
5. Indiana
6. Los Angeles Clippers
7. Memphis
8. Miami
9. Minnesota
10. New York
11. Oklahoma City
12. Portland

Now let's eliminate the teams that have cap space to sign him, but already have a plethora of solid guards:

13. Atlanta – Teague, L. Williams, & Schroeder
14. Cleveland – Irving & Jack
15. New Orleans – Holiday, Evans, Rivers, & Roberts
16. Philadelphia – Carter-Williams & Wroten
17. Phoenix – Dragic & Bledsoe (RFA, but given every indication that they won’t let him go)
18. Milwaukee – Knight, Wolters, Mayo, & Neal (all signed through 2015 – would create log jam)
19. Dallas - Calderon, Ellis

Now lets eliminate the teams that have cap space but already have a PG who demands big minutes and cannot slide over to play SG while Thomas plays PG.

20. Boston – Rondo
21. Charlotte – Walker
22. Detroit – Jennings
23. Golden State – Curry
24. San Antonio – Parker
25. Utah – Burke
26. Washington – Wall

That leaves us with 3 teams that have cap space and might possibly be interested in Thomas as a starting PG:

27. Los Angeles Lakers
28. Toronto
29. Orlando

Lakers have Nash and Kobe on the books from next year. Kobe is a pretty ball dominant guard. I'm not sure putting a scoring PG next to him is the best fit. The best fit would be a player who can spread the floor, play defense, run the offense when needed, and for the most part, stay out of the way. Nash can do most of those things except for defense. Thomas isn't the type of the player that will stay out of the way. Therfore, I don't see the Lakers throwing starters money at him.

Toronto is in a similar scenario with DeRozan. He operates best with the ball in his hands. Lowry seems to coexist just fine with him, but Lowry is more of a team player. When his team has the adequate talent level, he's taking 10-12 shots a game. Thomas would most likely be shooting 15+ times. It's possible that Toronto sees him as a starting PG, but it's not too likely.

Then you have Orlando who has probably one of the best compliments to Thomas as possible, Oladipo. Oladipo's defense, unselfishness, and all-around play (some might say Iguodala-lite) would be a very good compliment to Thomas' excellent scoring ability and poor defense.

I don't see too many teams throwing "starters" money at Thomas this offseason.

[tiderulz]

and you still have a team that has gone a decade with a short PG and doesnt want to see one again. There has been zero interest in Thomas from the Magic board or rumors from the front office. He doesnt fit into the team that Hennigan wants to build, tall long players with big wing spans.

[bpcox05]

and you still have a team that has gone a decade with a short PG and doesnt want to see one again. There has been zero interest in Thomas from the Magic board or rumors from the front office. He doesnt fit into the team that Hennigan wants to build, tall long players with big wing spans.

He sounds a lot like Al Davis in that he focuses on measurements and not performance, and look how successful the Raiders have been (Yikes!)

[tiderulz]

and you still have a team that has gone a decade with a short PG and doesnt want to see one again. There has been zero interest in Thomas from the Magic board or rumors from the front office. He doesnt fit into the team that Hennigan wants to build, tall long players with big wing spans.

He sounds a lot like Al Davis in that he focuses on measurements and not performance, and look how successful the Raiders have been (Yikes!)

well, he comes from major experience in San Antonio and OKC, so i think we will give him the benefit of the doubt. Drafted Dipo (looks good), O'Quinn in 2nd round is a keeper, i think we can agree Orlando won the Dwight Howard trade vs LA/Philly when everyone was initially laughing at our return. Now that return looks like a top-10 center, Harkless is developing, AA will probably be traded and a 2nd lottery pick this year. yeah, ill give Hennigan the benefit of the doubt if he wants long players and focuses on measurements

[Smitty731]

I agree that the Magic shouldn't just give Afflalo away. He's far too valuable for that. I would like to see them move him to get Oladipo in his natural spot.

I'm also not sure of the love for Thomas on the boards. Do we even know if he is actually good? He has been putting up numbers on a terrible team. We've seen that story with PGs before. I certainly wouldn't trade a very good SG for him.

And yes, it has to be fairly obvious at this point that the Magic won that deal. If nothing else by virtue of having the only productive player still left on the team he was dealt to, in Afflalo.

My other question is, what have you seen of Harkless that shows he is developing? I don't think him or Nicholson have improved at all since last season. They both still look completely clueless on defense. Harkless in addition doesn't even know where he is supposed to be on offense in the halfcourt. I've personally witnessed Nelson, Oladipo and Vaughn all screaming at him to get in the right spot to run a play, while it all breaks down since the shot clock has run down. He still can't shoot either. He screams the type of player who has potential and looks the part, but never get there. I wouldn't even extend his rookie deal at this point. The lack of any development for Harkless and Nicholson is the biggest disappointment for the year's Magic team to me.

[tiderulz]

My other question is, what have you seen of Harkless that shows he is developing? I don't think him or Nicholson have improved at all since last season. They both still look completely clueless on defense. Harkless in addition doesn't even know where he is supposed to be on offense in the halfcourt. I've personally witnessed Nelson, Oladipo and Vaughn all screaming at him to get in the right spot to run a play, while it all breaks down since the shot clock has run down. He still can't shoot either. He screams the type of player who has potential and looks the part, but never get there. I wouldn't even extend his rookie deal at this point. The lack of any development for Harkless and Nicholson is the biggest disappointment for the year's Magic team to me.

first of all, last year he shot 27% on 3 ptrs, this year 38.8%. much improved. As for plays, i havent seen 1 play called for him all year, he is the youngest player on the team and still learning to play more wing player than post player he played in HS and college. and JV hasnt done him or Nicholson any favors on development this year.

[blind prophet]

Yes From Sacramento, we need more time, at least 1 more season until we get rid of some bs salary, and need to develop Ben and Ray more.

I look to move Williams after this for a discounted expiring to a rebuilding team who has some loot to spend and has no reason to hold on to the cheaper expiring when they may get something with Williams youth.

[teerfour+40LG]

I like IT but I agree with loserx. My other issue with him is his size. I for one was never a big fan of jameer. But I haven't checked IT's stats this year.

Not a bad trade overall.

His stats are

20+ PER
20 PPG on 45% FG and 85% FT
6.3 AST with 32% AST%
3 REB
1 STL

[tranjSAIC]

I like IT but I agree with loserx. My other issue with him is his size. I for one was never a big fan of jameer. But I haven't checked IT's stats this year.

Not a bad trade overall.

His stats are

20+ PER
20 PPG on 45% FG and 85% FT
6.3 AST with 32% AST%
3 REB
1 STL

No one is saying he isn't a good player, it's just we had to endure 10 years of a small PG get post up and destroyed often.