Orlando Magic big offseason

[Smitty731]

Living here in Orlando, I get in to some Magic discussions and hear a decent amount about the team. Here is my proposal for a big offseason for them. This is all predicated on the Magic getting the 3rd pick in the draft.

1. Draft Jabari Parker at 3. I'm assuming that Wiggins and Embiid go 1 and 2.

2. Trade Arron Afflalo and the #12 Pick to Sacramento for Jason Thompson and the #7 pick and draft Marcus Smart. (You can also sub in Carl Landry here if you would rather. Premise remains basically the same.)

Why for Sacramento? They get a proven 2 guard, who supplies veteran leadership. This will also allow them to let Ben McLemore develop and provide scoring punch off the bench. They also remove the remaining 3 years of Thompson for a more productive player.

Why for Orlando? They get to move Oladipo to his natural 2 guard spot. They also move up to draft their PG of the future. They also pick up Thompson for a backup big off the bench.

3. Trade Nikola Vucevic and Mo Harkless to Houston for Omer Asik.

Why for Houston? They get a C who can actually play alongside Dwight Howard because he has a mid range shot. They also pick up Harkless, and we know Darryl Morey loves stockpiling young talent. Houston also saves some money in this deal.

Why for Orlando? They get the defensive anchor at C that they are currently missing. For the team I am building here, Asik is a better fit than Vucevic.

4. The Magic should be around 18-20 million in cap space (assuming they waive Maxiell and his non-guaranteed deal). Make the following signings: Luol Deng for either 1 year at 12 million or 2 years for 20 million. Sign Elton Brand for 1 year at 4 million. And sign Jodie Meeks for 1 year at 2 million.

Why these signings? This gives them proven vets who can help shepherd a young team along its way. Deng provides defense and some scoring at the wing. Brand is a veteran big off the bench. Meeks gives them scoring off the bench.

The lineup would look like this:

PG - J. Nelson/M. Smart (until M. Smart is ready to take over and then J. Nelson can transition to a backup role.)
SG - V. Oladipo/J. Meeks (a really nice offense/defense combo)
SF - L. Deng/J. Parker (Deng helps Parker grow and develop and the pressure is off Parker to be a star right away.)
PF - T. Harris/J. Thompson/E. Brand (all three can mix and match depending on matchups)
C - O. Asik/K. O'Quinn (two good defensive centers who can focus on defense and rebounding)

I think this makes this team immediately a playoff team in the East. Perhaps a little light on shooting. The pressure is off Oladipo, Parker and Smart to carry a team right away. By the time those guys are ready to step forward, the Magic are probably ready to be in the mix at the top of the East.

Thoughts?

[loserX]

3. Trade Nikola Vucevic and Mo Harkless to Houston for Omer Asik.

Why for Houston? They get a C who can actually play alongside Dwight Howard because he has a mid range shot. They also pick up Harkless, and we know Darryl Morey loves stockpiling young talent. Houston also saves some money in this deal.

Why for Orlando? They get the defensive anchor at C that they are currently missing. For the team I am building here, Asik is a better fit than Vucevic.

Er, I don't think you're going to find much support for this from Orlando fans. Asik is a $15M rental next year; this is not at all the kind of deal the Magic should be making.

[Smitty731]

Er, I don't think you're going to find much support for this from Orlando fans. Asik is a $15M rental next year; this is not at all the kind of deal the Magic should be making.

Not saying you are wrong, but Rich DeVos is not a young man. If he wants to bring a title to Orlando, something he has said over and over he wants to do, this is the kind of move to put them closer. He has plenty of money, so 15 million isn't going to scare him off.

In addition, who says Asik has to be a rental? Why can't they sign him long term? Everyone calls him a rental in deals, but who says he has to leave after next season? I could see him making a home in Orlando anchoring the backline of a young athletic team for years.

[loserX]

Er, I don't think you're going to find much support for this from Orlando fans. Asik is a $15M rental next year; this is not at all the kind of deal the Magic should be making.

Not saying you are wrong, but Rich DeVos is not a young man. If he wants to bring a title to Orlando, something he has said over and over he wants to do, this is the kind of move to put them closer. He has plenty of money, so 15 million isn't going to scare him off.

I'm just saying I don't think a $15M rental is worth this package, unless of course that $15M rental is a damn good player worth the cost and the risk. Not sure Asik qualifies, so that makes this an overpay to me.

In addition, who says Asik has to be a rental? Why can't they sign him long term? Everyone calls him a rental in deals, but who says he has to leave after next season? I could see him making a home in Orlando anchoring the backline of a young athletic team for years.

Well sure, but you don't pay another team for 4 years worth of Asik when you're only getting him for one. You have no guarantee that he'll play more than 82 games for you so you *should* treat him as a rental. If he re-signs, then great!

[Trader_Joe]

A very odd mix of moves and pieces here.

I don't like the Asik trade at all for Orlando as it's poor value and doesn't fit their direction.
I don't like the Deng trade (unless you were keeping Afflalo and going all in)

I do like the Afflalo trade assuming Smart is there.

If Devos is about winning a title, then I think they have the assets to try, but this isn't really going all in or doing a proper rebuild.

I think their off-season should be based around their pick.
If they get #1 they take Embiid and move Vucevic as I don't see Vuc able to play PF.
If they get Parker or Wiggins looks to move Harris and/or Harkless
If they get Randle, I like the fit.
If they get Exum they move Oladipo to SG full time.

Just a lot hinges on that pick.

[tiderulz]

Trade #3 is horrible. Vuc is worth more than Asik by himself, a better overall player and then you throw in Harkless on top of that, to pay $15mil of Asik and bail out Morey on the poison pill he gave Chicago?

Not sure on #1 item, as Harris is a very similar player to Parker, he just doesnt have the 3 pt shot that Parker does, but probably has a slightly better defense and post game.

And Thompson is a huge contract to swallow. He doesnt bring anything that we dont already get from O'Quinn, but is owed $19 over the next 3 years (with last year apparently partially guaranteed). Big price to pay to move up for a player that just might fall to Orlando at 12.

Then Deng, Brand and Meeks? sorry, but hell no. Deng is going to be looking for a contract like 4 yrs/$40, and he has too much mileage for that. Brand is so far gone over the hill. Meeks is an average backup SG that we can get anywhere.

the team you put together would probably be around 7-8 in the East.

[Smitty731]

Trade #3 is horrible. Vuc is worth more than Asik by himself, a better overall player and then you throw in Harkless on top of that, to pay $15mil of Asik and bail out Morey on the poison pill he gave Chicago?

Not sure on #1 item, as Harris is a very similar player to Parker, he just doesnt have the 3 pt shot that Parker does, but probably has a slightly better defense and post game.

And Thompson is a huge contract to swallow. He doesnt bring anything that we dont already get from O'Quinn, but is owed $19 over the next 3 years (with last year apparently partially guaranteed). Big price to pay to move up for a player that just might fall to Orlando at 12.

Then Deng, Brand and Meeks? sorry, but hell no. Deng is going to be looking for a contract like 4 yrs/$40, and he has too much mileage for that. Brand is so far gone over the hill. Meeks is an average backup SG that we can get anywhere.

the team you put together would probably be around 7-8 in the East.

You must be an irrational Magic fan to overrate Vuc and Harris the way you did. You made it sound like Harris is a better player than Parker. That is laughable. Harris is a 3/4 tweener who is probably best served to come off the bench for a good team.

Vuc is a better offensive player than Asik, but it isn't like he's an offensive machine. He is terrible defensively. And Asik is a better rebounder. Give him Vuc's minutes and he'll bring down more rebounds. And Harkless is worthless. He is worse this year than he was last year. I'd sell on him if he could bring back anything.

And that team is far better than 7-8 in the East. They are better than every non-playoff team this year, as well as Atlanta and Charlotte for sure. I personally think that group is better than Washington and potentially Chicago if Rose can't come back. Also, who knows what Brooklyn and Toronto will be next year?

The main thing is that everyone who wants the Magic to stay the course will realize in a few years that you can't pay all those young players. Oladipo, Harris, Vucevic, and two draft picks all need paid. I'd rather cash in on some of these guys and go for it. Just my opinion. I rooted for the Celtics when they just kept piling up young guys. And that team went nowhere until they cashed in those young pieces. I see Orlando in a similar spot.

[tiderulz]

Trade #3 is horrible. Vuc is worth more than Asik by himself, a better overall player and then you throw in Harkless on top of that, to pay $15mil of Asik and bail out Morey on the poison pill he gave Chicago?

Not sure on #1 item, as Harris is a very similar player to Parker, he just doesnt have the 3 pt shot that Parker does, but probably has a slightly better defense and post game.

And Thompson is a huge contract to swallow. He doesnt bring anything that we dont already get from O'Quinn, but is owed $19 over the next 3 years (with last year apparently partially guaranteed). Big price to pay to move up for a player that just might fall to Orlando at 12.

Then Deng, Brand and Meeks? sorry, but hell no. Deng is going to be looking for a contract like 4 yrs/$40, and he has too much mileage for that. Brand is so far gone over the hill. Meeks is an average backup SG that we can get anywhere.

the team you put together would probably be around 7-8 in the East.

You must be an irrational Magic fan to overrate Vuc and Harris the way you did. You made it sound like Harris is a better player than Parker. That is laughable. Harris is a 3/4 tweener who is probably best served to come off the bench for a good team.

Vuc is a better offensive player than Asik, but it isn't like he's an offensive machine. He is terrible defensively. And Asik is a better rebounder. Give him Vuc's minutes and he'll bring down more rebounds. And Harkless is worthless. He is worse this year than he was last year. I'd sell on him if he could bring back anything.

And that team is far better than 7-8 in the East. They are better than every non-playoff team this year, as well as Atlanta and Charlotte for sure. I personally think that group is better than Washington and potentially Chicago if Rose can't come back. Also, who knows what Brooklyn and Toronto will be next year?

The main thing is that everyone who wants the Magic to stay the course will realize in a few years that you can't pay all those young players. Oladipo, Harris, Vucevic, and two draft picks all need paid. I'd rather cash in on some of these guys and go for it. Just my opinion. I rooted for the Celtics when they just kept piling up young guys. And that team went nowhere until they cashed in those young pieces. I see Orlando in a similar spot.

you must be an irrational fan to underrate Vuc, he is a top-12 center at worst in the entire league, still on his rookie contract. And i dont believe that Asik is a better rebounder than Vuc, maybe ill give them an even pass on that. And you obviously have an agenda, as Vuc showed a lot more defensively this year. He isnt a shot blocker, but his team defense definitely improved from last year. And compared to Asik, he is an offensive machine.

As for Harris, he and Parker are the same size and same wingspan, 6'8 with 6'11 wingspan. They are both tweeners. Tell me how you see them as different players?

Harkless? hardly worthless. You can obviously tell that he spent the offseason working on his 3pt shot and has gotten a lot better with it this year.

and you dont want to spend money on good young players, but you want to sign Deng and Brand?

I do love that you ask for people's thoughts, I give mine which are different than your views, and because of that I am an irrational Magic fan.

[jjohns828]

I don't like anything in your proposal except for number 2, but the Vucevic for Asik trade is especially bad. I wouldn't make that trade straight up let alone throw in Harkless.

[Colbinii]

you must be an irrational fan to underrate Vuc, he is a top-12 center at worst in the entire league, still on his rookie contract. And i dont believe that Asik is a better rebounder than Vuc, maybe ill give them an even pass on that. And you obviously have an agenda, as Vuc showed a lot more defensively this year. He isnt a shot blocker, but his team defense definitely improved from last year. And compared to Asik, he is an offensive machine.

Top 12? You're crazy.

Howard
Cousins
Horford
Bosh
Davis
Drummond
Noah
Hibbert
Gasol
Pekovic
D. Jordan
Gortat
Bogut
B. Lopez
Chandler

Are all better players with a doubt. Then you have Asik and Dieng who you could make a case for if you value Defense at a premium over offensive production.

Asik is a better rebounder than Vucevic, and a MUCH better offensive rebounder.
He isn't an offensive machine compared to Asik either. When Asik started, he put up 10 points on 7.5 attempts per game, with an ability to get to the line at an ELITE level. His FTR was .487 that year (A career low) while Vucevic's FTR is an astonishing .197 (career high, and this number is terrible, awful, HORRENDOUS for any nba player, especially a big). Asik also scored at a 56 TS% while Vucevic does his scoring at a league average 53.5 TS%.

[j_n]

You must be an irrational Magic fan to overrate Vuc and Harris the way you did. You made it sound like Harris is a better player than Parker. That is laughable. Harris is a 3/4 tweener who is probably best served to come off the bench for a good team.

Vuc is a better offensive player than Asik, but it isn't like he's an offensive machine. He is terrible defensively. And Asik is a better rebounder. Give him Vuc's minutes and he'll bring down more rebounds. And Harkless is worthless. He is worse this year than he was last year. I'd sell on him if he could bring back anything.

And that team is far better than 7-8 in the East. They are better than every non-playoff team this year, as well as Atlanta and Charlotte for sure. I personally think that group is better than Washington and potentially Chicago if Rose can't come back. Also, who knows what Brooklyn and Toronto will be next year?

The main thing is that everyone who wants the Magic to stay the course will realize in a few years that you can't pay all those young players. Oladipo, Harris, Vucevic, and two draft picks all need paid. I'd rather cash in on some of these guys and go for it. Just my opinion. I rooted for the Celtics when they just kept piling up young guys. And that team went nowhere until they cashed in those young pieces. I see Orlando in a similar spot.

I agree with most of your post but you are really seliing Vucevic short here, he is much more valuable than Asik and its not even close.

When Asik entered the NBA he was a year older than Vucevic is now, he is on an expiring next year and will become an undrestricted free agent whie Vucevic is still on his rookie contract and is already better than Asik ever was.

As far as Vucevic's defense, it has imprvoed a lot this year and while hes still an average help defender at best, he is one of the best post defenders in the league, though obviously Asik is better in that end since thats pretty much all he does,

Offensivly, Vucevic is a lot better than stats will show, he deflects a lot of rebounds to teammates so hes even better than it seems and the reason hes averaging a modest 14 ppg(5th best amongst centers) is mainly due to lack of touches in the Magic's offense.
When he gets more than 15 shot attempts Vucevic is averaging almost 22 ppg.

Harkless had a dissapointing season but he improved his outside shot a lot and with his combination of length and athleticism there is a good chance that he would be a solid player in this league for years to come at worst, he is still younger than half of this years's draft class.

[tiderulz]

Asik is a better rebounder than Vucevic, and a MUCH better offensive rebounder.
He isn't an offensive machine compared to Asik either. When Asik started, he put up 10 points on 7.5 attempts per game, with an ability to get to the line at an ELITE level. His FTR was .487 that year (A career low) while Vucevic's FTR is an astonishing .197 (career high, and this number is terrible, awful, HORRENDOUS for any nba player, especially a big). Asik also scored at a 56 TS% while Vucevic does his scoring at a league average 53.5 TS%.

i dont believe that Asik is a better rebounder than Vuc. I call them about even, and comparing full time starts, their offensive rebounding is almost exactly even, at about 3.6 per game. So explain to me again why Asik is a better rebounder and much better offensive rebounder when their stats are pretty identical as a starter?

[RookieStar]

well we all have our opiniona but Asik better than Vuc? I don't think so

[Colbinii]

Asik is a better rebounder than Vucevic, and a MUCH better offensive rebounder.
He isn't an offensive machine compared to Asik either. When Asik started, he put up 10 points on 7.5 attempts per game, with an ability to get to the line at an ELITE level. His FTR was .487 that year (A career low) while Vucevic's FTR is an astonishing .197 (career high, and this number is terrible, awful, HORRENDOUS for any nba player, especially a big). Asik also scored at a 56 TS% while Vucevic does his scoring at a league average 53.5 TS%.

i dont believe that Asik is a better rebounder than Vuc. I call them about even, and comparing full time starts, their offensive rebounding is almost exactly even, at about 3.6 per game. So explain to me again why Asik is a better rebounder and much better offensive rebounder when their stats are pretty identical as a starter?

Asik is a slightly better offensive rebounder (12.8 to 11.5 ORB%) and defensive rebounder (30.0 to 27.7 DRB%). Asik is slightly better at both, which in my book, makes him a better rebounder if you are a better offensive and defensive rebounder. Looking at career % it is even more in Favor of Asik.

Now, going by 82games.com which I believe is more accurate than BBref, here are the rebounding numbers.
Asik: 11.6 ORB%, 27.1 DRB%, and a 38.7 Rebounding rating.
Vuc: 10.1 ORB%, 24.9 DRB%, and a 35.0 Rebounding rating.

The biggest difference between the two seems one attacks the rim with a 19.3% Draw foul rate, while the Big Kitten attacks the rim at a 8.3% Draw foul rate, which, for a big, is Atrocious.

well we all have our opiniona but Asik better than Vuc? I don't think so

Please post evidence to the contrary. A lot of people seem to say things like this with nothing to ground their opinions. I am trying to get a discussion going and you aren't adding anything to the debate whatsoever.

[blind prophet]

No from Sacramento but we are close, take Carl Landry + the expiring of Outlaw and we have a deal.

[tiderulz]

Omer had 1 year as a starter, 11.4 rpg, 3.4 offensive rpg.
Vuc has had 2 years as a starter, 11.5 rpg, 3.4 offensive rpg

looks pretty even to me.

Vuc has a better offensive game, better range, better passer and to add why i think he is better, he is 4.5 yrs younger and still on a rookie contract, not owed $15mil next year.

[RookieStar]

Omer had 1 year as a starter, 11.4 rpg, 3.4 offensive rpg.
Vuc has had 2 years as a starter, 11.5 rpg, 3.4 offensive rpg

looks pretty even to me.

Vuc has a better offensive game, better range, better passer and to add why i think he is better, he is 4.5 yrs younger and still on a rookie contract, not owed $15mil next year.

THIS. For me, in Asik, what you see is what you get while in Vuc you can see there is still room for growth. I admit I only saw Asik a few times and majority of them he was still with the bulls but I think Vuc has better low post moves than him already.

[j_n]

[
Asik is a slightly better offensive rebounder (12.8 to 11.5 ORB%) and defensive rebounder (30.0 to 27.7 DRB%). Asik is slightly better at both, which in my book, makes him a better rebounder if you are a better offensive and defensive rebounder. Looking at career % it is even more in Favor of Asik.

Now, going by 82games.com which I believe is more accurate than BBref, here are the rebounding numbers.
Asik: 11.6 ORB%, 27.1 DRB%, and a 38.7 Rebounding rating.
Vuc: 10.1 ORB%, 24.9 DRB%, and a 35.0 Rebounding rating.

The biggest difference between the two seems one attacks the rim with a 19.3% Draw foul rate, while the Big Kitten attacks the rim at a 8.3% Draw foul rate, which, for a big, is Atrocious.

well we all have our opiniona but Asik better than Vuc? I don't think so

Please post evidence to the contrary. A lot of people seem to say things like this with nothing to ground their opinions. I am trying to get a discussion going and you aren't adding anything to the debate whatsoever.

Asik doesnt take shots from outside the paint unlike Vucevic and hes not a factor on offense so all he really has to do is go for offensive rebounds so he should be better but Im not sure it would be the case if they had a similar role.

As far as foul rate goes, Vucevic's biggest weakness is his inability to draw fouls but he is a MUCH better free throw shooter so teams cant really hack him like they do to Asik and unlike Omer, Vuc isnt the 5th option on offense no matter who is on the floor, Asik just plays off the attention that others are attracting and gets easy buckets but its not like he has much skills.

I dont even know why its a debate, Asik is 4.5 years older, can leave after 1 year where he will get 15 million dollars and is a liablity on offense so the better question is does Asik even has a positive trade value, comparing him to a similar player who is much younger and on a rookie contract is laughable.

[Gomagic44]

[
Asik is a slightly better offensive rebounder (12.8 to 11.5 ORB%) and defensive rebounder (30.0 to 27.7 DRB%). Asik is slightly better at both, which in my book, makes him a better rebounder if you are a better offensive and defensive rebounder. Looking at career % it is even more in Favor of Asik.

Now, going by 82games.com which I believe is more accurate than BBref, here are the rebounding numbers.
Asik: 11.6 ORB%, 27.1 DRB%, and a 38.7 Rebounding rating.
Vuc: 10.1 ORB%, 24.9 DRB%, and a 35.0 Rebounding rating.

The biggest difference between the two seems one attacks the rim with a 19.3% Draw foul rate, while the Big Kitten attacks the rim at a 8.3% Draw foul rate, which, for a big, is Atrocious.

well we all have our opiniona but Asik better than Vuc? I don't think so

Please post evidence to the contrary. A lot of people seem to say things like this with nothing to ground their opinions. I am trying to get a discussion going and you aren't adding anything to the debate whatsoever.

Asik doesnt take shots from outside the paint unlike Vucevic and hes not a factor on offense so all he really has to do is go for offensive rebounds so he should be better but Im not sure it would be the case if they had a similar role.

As far as foul rate goes, Vucevic's biggest weakness is his inability to draw fouls but he is a MUCH better free throw shooter so teams cant really hack him like they do to Asik and unlike Omer, Vuc isnt the 5th option on offense no matter who is on the floor, Asik just plays off the attention that others are attracting and gets easy buckets but its not like he has much skills.

I dont even know why its a debate, Asik is 4.5 years older, can leave after 1 year where he will get 15 million dollars and is a liablity on offense so the better question is does Asik even has a positive trade value, comparing him to a similar player who is much younger and on a rookie contract is laughable.

i agree. I don't dislike asik. He is a good big. The problem is morey squandered his value. He is overpaid and barely got to play this year, further undermining his value. Staying the course for orlando makes for a better experience for me as a fan than throwing crap at the wall hoping it sticks.

Brand was over the hill when iggy played for the dozers last.

[GANGSTERDOG]

I like Trade #2. Only problem is see with OP is hes wrong about Devos hes patient hes not trying to rush a Rebuild with Mediocre pieces in Deng,Asik and Brand. Im pretty sure his Kids are running the Operations and its more for them anyways, there was an article bout it last week. Im more than Happy to tank 1 more year as a Magic fan.