Am I Crazy? MIN/CLE/IND

jowglenn · Post #1 » by **jowglenn** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:59 pm

Here we go.

IND trades: Roy Hibbert, Luis Scola, Chris Copeland

IND receives: Anthony Bennett, Anderson Varejao, Kevin Martin

MIN trades: Kevin Love, Kevin Martin

MIN receives: Andrew Wiggins, Tristan Thompson, Scola and Copeland expirings, the non guaranteed deals, and the picks

Cleveland trades: Anderson Varejao, Andrew Wiggins, Anthony Bennett, Tristan Thompson, all those non guaranteed deals, some picks

CLE receives: Kevin Love, Roy Hibbert

Why for Indy: Move on from Hibbert and get an able stopgap to fill in for him (varejao) who is a 14/14 guy when healthy and a young guy who can be a Paul George running mate for years in Anthony Bennett. D West is going to be reaaally old soon, so having a young athletic guy like Bennett could be a good thing. he could still break out big time as welll, though there is a risk. Martin actually is a good guy to plug in at SG. Expensive for 3 more years, but whatever, who cares.

Hill/Watson
Martin/Miles/Stuckey
George/Miles/S.Hill
West/Bennett/Rudez
Varejao/Mahinmi/Lavoy

Probably look to move D West at the appropriate time, as this team would be doing a classic Larry Bird "rebuild on the fly".

Why for MIN: Their target, yes, is Wiggins/Bennett for Love, but Cleveland is naturally a bit wary of moving both their recent #1 picks just for Love... they want to do it without Wiggins (bennett/waiters/thompson/picks) but if that won't happen, they willl curtail that package a bit. If Wiggins is the target, then it's Wiggins plus spare parts, not Wiggins and everything.

So in this scenario you get Wiggins and are able to dump your worst contract. You get Wiggins, your target guy. You get Thompson, who could take Love's place a bit, and you get expirings and the picks. There is a chance you can work Barea in here if you want to. By expanding it to Pacers, you can get their expirings. The picks are good as well.

Why for Cleveland:

I present to you:

Irving
Waiters
Lebron
Love
Hibbert

I don't know what you need to do to fill out the rest of that, or if this is even legal, or if aprons and such get in the way, but this is a BOSS **** lineup right here.

If you're going to have to trade Wiggins & Bennett, make it count, and get the most insane 3-4-5 rotation since Bird/McHale/Parrish. (SERIOUSLY LOOK AT IT).

Fill in the backups where you need to fill in the backups. You'll find your guys, the vets dropped at the moments, picked up off waivers at the deadline, etc. You'll figure it out.

An Irving/Waiters/Lebron/Love/Hibbert lineup would dominate this league like nothing you've ever seen before.

BossHoggin · Post #2 » by **BossHoggin** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:59 pm

you're definitely not special: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1335183

jowglenn · Post #3 » by **jowglenn** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:01 pm

MIN lineup;

Rubio/Barea
Wiggins/whatever
Brewer/Lavine/Budinger
Tristan Thompson
Pekovic/Dieng

Move Pekovic at the deadline.

Post #4 » by **pacers33granger** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:25 pm

Why are we taking on Martin in this scenario? I'm not on board with Hibbert for Varejao/Bennett but the value's there at least. It's then two expirings for Martin, why? Especially since I'm sure Minny would just take expirings for Martin right now since they're trying to dump him in the Love deal and they could probably dump someone else there (Bud or Brewer?) in his place.

bs_and_cs · Post #5 » by **bs_and_cs** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:36 pm

If the Cavs could get a big man like Hibbert (elite rim protection with decent offense) at the price of Bennett/Varejao, I think they would jump all over that then they could keep Wiggins.

Personally Irving/Waiters/LeBron/Thompson/Hibbert with Wiggins as the super sub off the bench is a better lineup than Irving/Waiters/LeBron/Love/Varejao.

My point being, I'm not sure they would move Wiggins if there was the possibility to add a guy like Hibbert for such a reasonable price.

bgrep14 · Post #6 » by **bgrep14** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:02 am

bs_and_cs wrote:If the Cavs could get a big man like Hibbert (elite rim protection with decent offense) at the price of Bennett/Varejao, I think they would jump all over that then they could keep Wiggins.

Personally Irving/Waiters/LeBron/Thompson/Hibbert with Wiggins as the super sub off the bench is a better lineup than Irving/Waiters/LeBron/Love/Varejao.

My point being, I'm not sure they would move Wiggins if there was the possibility to add a guy like Hibbert for such a reasonable price.

Well said the only issue is Lebron would have to sign off on this

8305 · Post #7 » by **8305** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:29 am

Sorry this awful for Indiana. We are going to trade Hibbert for a guy who is always hurt and a guy who to this point is a bust?

melo mvp 15 · Post #8 » by **melo mvp 15** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:03 am

bs_and_cs wrote:If the Cavs could get a big man like Hibbert (elite rim protection with decent offense) at the price of Bennett/Varejao, I think they would jump all over that then they could keep Wiggins.

Personally Irving/Waiters/LeBron/Thompson/Hibbert with Wiggins as the super sub off the bench is a better lineup than Irving/Waiters/LeBron/Love/Varejao.

My point being, I'm not sure they would move Wiggins if there was the possibility to add a guy like Hibbert for such a reasonable price.

Completely agreed. Cleveland's biggest need is a big to defend and rebound, sure getting Love would make them a lot better- but there are other options... specifically ones that won't have the insane cost of Love (which I'm not saying isn't warranted, because obviously Love will be better than all of them).

Although I'm biased because I still don't think Cleveland should trade Wiggins for Love. I know that Love is probably the best PF in the league right now... but I also know that Minnesota is getting awful offers and Cleveland could sign him for nothing as a FA in a year. I also think that Cleveland's best offer without Wiggins (Bennet, Thompson, Waiters, and 2 firsts) is still better than anything Boston, Chicago or GSW will offer (yes, even if GSW puts Klay on the table... but no if in some weird, unlikely turn of events Chicago puts Noah on the table). I really think Cleveland is negotiating against themselves. Just because Love is a great player, that doesn't mean his value is that high right now- specifically because the market hasn't been great and obviously he can basically say where he wants to go or walk (which is what really kills his value).

It's funny because if Love were smart he'd let it leak that he wouldn't commit to Cleveland if they gave up Wiggins. Then again, it's not very believable... but he should basically say that he doesn't want to go to a gutted roster (which weakens Minny's leverage even more).

melo mvp 15 · Post #9 » by **melo mvp 15** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:06 am

8305 wrote:Sorry this awful for Indiana. We are going to trade Hibbert for a guy who is always hurt and a guy who to this point is a bust?

It's funny because you could say "Sorry this (is) awful for Cleveland. We are going to trade an incredible energy big who has a great relationship with LeBron and last year's #1 overall pick who looked fantastic in summer league for a guy who just had one of the worst individual playoffs ever and is getting big money"

Post #10 » by **jbk1234** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:09 am

Trade proposals like this make me long to trade Wiggins and Bennett for Love so that these trades are no longer plausible.

8305 · Post #11 » by **8305** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:39 pm

melo mvp 15 wrote:
8305 wrote:Sorry this awful for Indiana. We are going to trade Hibbert for a guy who is always hurt and a guy who to this point is a bust?

It's funny because you could say "Sorry this (is) awful for Cleveland. We are going to trade an incredible energy big who has a great relationship with LeBron and last year's #1 overall pick who looked fantastic in summer league for a guy who just had one of the worst individual playoffs ever and is getting big money"

Lots of guys look great in the summer league but that doesn't always translate to real NBA Games. And yes, when he plays Varejao is pretty good. "When he plays" being a very big qualifier. His relationship with LeBron is irrelevant to Indiana.

Yes Hibbert was bad last year, I'm willing to gamble he can be fixed rather than sell this low.

HornetJail · Post #12 » by **HornetJail** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:01 pm

It's going to be hilarious when the final Love deal is simply Waiters, Thompson, Bennett, and picks for Love and someone like Barea and that's it. You guys are WAY over-thinking things.

melo mvp 15 · Post #13 » by **melo mvp 15** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:46 pm

8305 wrote:
melo mvp 15 wrote:
8305 wrote:Sorry this awful for Indiana. We are going to trade Hibbert for a guy who is always hurt and a guy who to this point is a bust?

It's funny because you could say "Sorry this (is) awful for Cleveland. We are going to trade an incredible energy big who has a great relationship with LeBron and last year's #1 overall pick who looked fantastic in summer league for a guy who just had one of the worst individual playoffs ever and is getting big money"

Lots of guys look great in the summer league but that doesn't always translate to real NBA Games. And yes, when he plays Varejao is pretty good. "When he plays" being a very big qualifier. His relationship with LeBron is irrelevant to Indiana.

Yes Hibbert was bad last year, I'm willing to gamble he can be fixed rather than sell this low.

I don't think you got my point. Do you not see the irony? You quickly dismiss any negatives with Hibbert yet only focus on the negatives of the other players.

Golabki · Post #14 » by **Golabki** » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:58 pm

I don't think Hibbert is going to net you Bennet and AV

I also think AV is good and pairs well with Love and has a good relationship with LeBron... I think they'd rather keep AV and keep some dry powder.

jimmy keys · Post #15 » by **jimmy keys** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:12 am

melo mvp 15 wrote:
bs_and_cs wrote:If the Cavs could get a big man like Hibbert (elite rim protection with decent offense) at the price of Bennett/Varejao, I think they would jump all over that then they could keep Wiggins.

Personally Irving/Waiters/LeBron/Thompson/Hibbert with Wiggins as the super sub off the bench is a better lineup than Irving/Waiters/LeBron/Love/Varejao.

My point being, I'm not sure they would move Wiggins if there was the possibility to add a guy like Hibbert for such a reasonable price.

Completely agreed. Cleveland's biggest need is a big to defend and rebound, sure getting Love would make them a lot better- but there are other options... specifically ones that won't have the insane cost of Love (which I'm not saying isn't warranted, because obviously Love will be better than all of them).

Although I'm biased because I still don't think Cleveland should trade Wiggins for Love. I know that Love is probably the best PF in the league right now... but I also know that Minnesota is getting awful offers and Cleveland could sign him for nothing as a FA in a year. I also think that Cleveland's best offer without Wiggins (Bennet, Thompson, Waiters, and 2 firsts) is still better than anything Boston, Chicago or GSW will offer (yes, even if GSW puts Klay on the table... but no if in some weird, unlikely turn of events Chicago puts Noah on the table). I really think Cleveland is negotiating against themselves. Just because Love is a great player, that doesn't mean his value is that high right now- specifically because the market hasn't been great and obviously he can basically say where he wants to go or walk (which is what really kills his value).

It's funny because if Love were smart he'd let it leak that he wouldn't commit to Cleveland if they gave up Wiggins. Then again, it's not very believable... but he should basically say that he doesn't want to go to a gutted roster (which weakens Minny's leverage even more).

Exactly on point. Love is the one with all the leverage here, not any specific team.

8305 · Post #16 » by **8305** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:04 pm

melo mvp 15 wrote:
8305 wrote:
melo mvp 15 wrote:It's funny because you could say "Sorry this (is) awful for Cleveland. We are going to trade an incredible energy big who has a great relationship with LeBron and last year's #1 overall pick who looked fantastic in summer league for a guy who just had one of the worst individual playoffs ever and is getting big money"

Lots of guys look great in the summer league but that doesn't always translate to real NBA Games. And yes, when he plays Varejao is pretty good. "When he plays" being a very big qualifier. His relationship with LeBron is irrelevant to Indiana.

Yes Hibbert was bad last year, I'm willing to gamble he can be fixed rather than sell this low.

I don't think you got my point. Do you not see the irony? You quickly dismiss any negatives with Hibbert yet only focus on the negatives of the other players.

You are right I didn't get your point and I will concede arguements can be spun different ways. But, I will stand by my original point. A package of AV and Bennett is not going to command a remarkable return in the trade market. Hibbert with all his many flaws is still a foundational piece in Indiana.

lakersin4 · Post #17 » by **lakersin4** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:17 pm

I actually like the general idea for all teams.. But I think there needs to be more moving pieces.. Everyone doesn't quite get enough to make it a win/win/win.

Cle: Love, Hibbert, Martin

Ind: Bennett, Pek, Barea

Min: Wiggins, Thompson, Waiters, AV

Irving/Martin/Lebron/Love/Hibbert

Hill/George/Bennett/West/Pek

Rubio/Waiters/Wiggins/TT/Dieng

All 3 teams win here.