Portland / Philadelphia / Cleveland

[BigLurch92]

let the 76ers keep MCW and give POR Wiggins.

So Anthony Bennett for Young and a top-5 protected #1? Might need some tweaking there....

I guess that works for portland, but yeah, that doesn't look good.

[old rem]

let the 76ers keep MCW and give POR Wiggins.

Sure... obvious improvement is to just drop the Sioxers. Even then I doubt the Cavs pay way more for LMA than they would for Love.

[jayjaysee]

The salaries suck, but I would rather it be Aldridge for Wiggins, Thompson and multiple picks. I would also want our expiring crappy bench player moved too, if possible.

I think if for whatever reason LMA actually asked to be traded (he won't) - Portland would pretty gladly take

Bennett or Thompson, Wiggins, and one UNG deal for LMA.

Lill/Wiggins/Batum.. The fit and talent there is just insane.

But LMA isn't asking for a trade, Cleveland shouldn't add value on top of Wiggins for a 29 year old all-star, and Portland doesn't want to rebuild now that they are as close as they are.

Hopefully Allen decides it's worth opening his big checkbook this summer and adds another max player with LMA on top.

Gasol/LMA/Batum/Matthews/Lillard

[Dupp]

Seems odd from Portland perspective. I think we give too much an could cut Philly out and make a better deal. They get way too much value.

[DaVoiceMaster]

The initial proposal, which I thought was clear but maybe not, was if Portland decided they don't have enough players to make a run at a championship in the next few years and decide they don't want to pay Aldridge $110 million in that situation. I'm not saying the Blazers should do this, I'm just bored since the Blazers forum has been real slow this summer. I think Matthews is being a bit underrated in this thread, as well (and on RealGM in general). It's not just Aldridge, but you get a sidekick in Matthews who finished 4th or 5th overall in made 3 pointers last season, plays good defense and is a leader in the locker room.

How about this instead...

Portland receives: Wiggins, Waiters, Thompson, Dellavedova, MCW
Cleveland receives: Aldridge, Matthews, Freeland, Claver
Philadelhia receives: Bennett, McCollum, Robinson

Portland Roster
PG Lillard / Blake / Dellavedova
SG Carter-Williams / Waiters / Barton
SF Batum / Wright / Crabbe
PF Wiggins / Thompson
_C Lopez / Kaman / Leonard

Cleveland Roster
PG Irvin / Lucas III
SG Matthews / Miller / Harris / (Ray Allen???)
SF LeBron / Jones / Claver
PF Aldridge / Murphy / Powell / Thomas
_C Varejao / Freeland / Haywood
_C Lopez / Kaman / Leonard

Philadelphia Roster
PG Maynor / Ware
SG Wroten / McCollum / Williams / Thompson / Richardson
SF Bennett
PF Robinson / Moultrie / Varnado / Davies
_C Noel / Embiid / Sims

[rjgraca]

If the Cavs are hesitent to make the Love trade for a one year rental, the Cavs sure as heck are not going to over pay even more for LMA then what has been proposed for an older LMA. Gutting the Cavs for LMA seems hardly worth it here. This seems like huge over pay in both proposed trades for the Cavs which would make it more beneficial to be patient and wait for the trade deadline to see if Portland is in a more reasonable mood given that they don't (IMO) have enough depth to repeat last seasons success of a red hot start.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

If the Cavs are hesitent to make the Love trade for a one year rental, the Cavs sure as heck are not going to over pay even more for LMA then what has been proposed for an older LMA. Gutting the Cavs for LMA seems hardly worth it here. This seems like huge over pay in both proposed trades for the Cavs which would make it more beneficial to be patient and wait for the trade deadline to see if Portland is in a more reasonable mood given that they don't (IMO) have enough depth to repeat last seasons success of a red hot start.

Lol, like our depth contributed anything to the red hot start. We started off well despite our bench, not because of it. It was because 4/5ths of our starting unit had built chemistry the years before and because the only change was an absolute perfect fit at center. Now, Portland not only returns with 5/5 of those starters, but the confidence from winning our first playoff series.


Additionally, I am not sure our depth is any worse than last year. Exchanging Mo for Blakes takes away some scoring, but gives us a true distributor who can shoot 3's better than Williams. Kaman massively upgrades our backup front-court. Barton, McCollum, Robinson and Freeland all have another year under their belts. Not really seeing a step back in any of that.


None of this is to say I expect a better start than last year, however I don't expect a bad start by any means and I do expect a stronger midseason. So unless something major happens, I think we look to be in much the same position as last year with regards to playoff positioning.

Also, with Aldridge already saying he will sign a max extension from us, we have no reason to sell anything but high. You can hope for "the more reasonable mood", like you seem to be doing with Minny, but I think with the youth and lack of defense of your current team will feel more pressure to get LeBron some help than Portland will be feeling to gut our team and restart the building process.

[rjgraca]

If the Cavs are hesitent to make the Love trade for a one year rental, the Cavs sure as heck are not going to over pay even more for LMA then what has been proposed for an older LMA. Gutting the Cavs for LMA seems hardly worth it here. This seems like huge over pay in both proposed trades for the Cavs which would make it more beneficial to be patient and wait for the trade deadline to see if Portland is in a more reasonable mood given that they don't (IMO) have enough depth to repeat last seasons success of a red hot start.

Lol, like our depth contributed anything to the red hot start. We started off well despite our bench, not because of it. It was because 4/5ths of our starting unit had built chemistry the years before and because the only change was an absolute perfect fit at center. Now, Portland not only returns with 5/5 of those starters, but the confidence from winning our first playoff series.


Additionally, I am not sure our depth is any worse than last year. Exchanging Mo for Blakes takes away some scoring, but gives us a true distributor who can shoot 3's better than Williams. Kaman massively upgrades our backup front-court. Barton, McCollum, Robinson and Freeland all have another year under their belts. Not really seeing a step back in any of that.


None of this is to say I expect a better start than last year, however I don't expect a bad start by any means and I do expect a stronger midseason. So unless something major happens, I think we look to be in much the same position as last year with regards to playoff positioning.

Also, with Aldridge already saying he will sign a max extension from us, we have no reason to sell anything but high. You can hope for "the more reasonable mood", like you seem to be doing with Minny, but I think with the youth and lack of defense of your current team will feel more pressure to get LeBron some help than Portland will be feeling to gut our team and restart the building process.

Yes, you road your starters hard and it worked for a while last season... not sure if your LOL ing at your bench. The second part of the season is where they didn't sneak up on opponents and surprise them. Your fooling yourself when you think that all variables will stay the same. Not saying that Portland won't make the playoffs, but don't expect a high seed and LMA is going to be playing more for himself to make sure he has good stats to insure he get's a max contract where ever he goes which is not guarenteed to be Portland who hasn't made any significant moves from last season.

No. Lebron only has limited Leverage since him leaving in the short-term would make him look worse than the last time he left so don't expect a desperate over pay like this threads trade proposal.

If Kaman is the upgrade you were looking for, Dallas and LA must have over looked that missing ingrediant, because he didn't play for them much and they defintely had buyers remorse. Kaman just seems to want to score now and does little else. As for Robinson and his most recent injury isn't an endorsement of a break out season watching him in the summer league. Good luck with your current cast since no team is going to do Portland a favor like this threads trade proposal suggests.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Yes, you road your starters hard and it worked for a while last season... not sure if your LOL ing at your bench.

No. The "Lol" was directed at your sentiment that our depth was the reason for the hot start.

The second part of the season is where they didn't sneak up on opponents and surprise them.

You obviously weren't paying attention to the Blazers. We went "great start" -> "lousy midseason" -> "good finish". It was a season with 3 pretty distinct parts.

Your fooling yourself when you think that all variables will stay the same.

What variables did I say will stay the same? And of those, which am I fooling myself about?

Not saying that Portland won't make the playoffs, but don't expect a high seed and LMA is going to be playing more for himself to make sure he has good stats to insure he get's a max contract where ever he goes

Aldridge has never played for stats. Having watched him, he is consummate in doing what the team needs him to do. There are players you can level this charge against (Zbo pre-Memphis, Al in Utah, Love in Minn, Melo in NY), but that has never been Aldridge's MO. Clearly you are out of your depth.

which is not guarenteed to be Portland who hasn't made any significant moves from last season.

Nothing is guaranteed, but he made some pretty definitive statements this summer. In particular that he wants a 5 year deal - something that ONLY the Blazers can offer him.

No. Lebron only has limited Leverage since him leaving in the short-term would make him look worse than the last time he left so don't expect a desperate over pay like this threads trade proposal.

Cleveland would have to have balls to do that with LeBron in his prime. Not saying they couldn't, or wouldn't, but the media is going to be constantly questioning whether the team, as constructed, is enough. They did the same thing in Miami. It's the nature of the beast that all eyes will be on the best player. I already think they have offered extraordinary value for Love as an "all in move", where they give up a bit of value to get guaranteed win-now production.

If Kaman is the upgrade you were looking for, Dallas and LA must have over looked that missing ingrediant, because he didn't play for them much and they defintely had buyers remorse. Kaman just seems to want to score now and does little else. As for Robinson and his most recent injury isn't an endorsement of a break out season watching him in the summer league. Good luck with your current cast since no team is going to do Portland a favor like this threads trade proposal suggests.

This is taken way out of context. I was describing how the bench has not gotten worse than last year, with Kaman being a part of that puzzle. Since Kaman is absolutely and undeniably an upgrade over Meyers Leonard, my point still stands. Whether you want to take it out of context again is up to you.

[rjgraca]

No. The "Lol" was directed at your sentiment that our depth was the reason for the hot start.

I guess we had a misunderstanding here, because there is no way that the Blazers bench was part of there fast start.

You obviously weren't paying attention to the Blazers. We went "great start" -> "lousy midseason" -> "good finish". It was a season with 3 pretty distinct parts.

Oh. I was paying attention... I don't quite equate the level of success near the end of the season as high as some Blazer fans do.

What variables did I say will stay the same? And of those, which am I fooling myself about?

Oh, like LMA being in the same state of mind and not looking for his stats over what's good for the team. Another being having dependable backup point guard like Mo Williams (I know you might mention signing Blake, but I don't consider that an upgrade).

Aldridge has never played for stats. Having watched him, he is consummate in doing what the team needs him to do. There are players you can level this charge against (Zbo pre-Memphis, Al in Utah, Love in Minn, Melo in NY), but that has never been Aldridge's MO. Clearly you are out of your depth.

I think that some Blazer fans can put on there rose colored glasses when it comes to human nature where people look out for themselves. If it makes some of you feel better you can think that he won't be making sure he get's his stats to go on the free agency tour. Maybe some Blazer fans can say he won't leave that extra year of a max contract on the table... see Dwight Howard for how certain that type of thinking is.

[

Nothing is guaranteed, but he made some pretty definitive statements this summer. In particular that he wants a 5 year deal - something that ONLY the Blazers can offer him.

I guess the LA Lakers thought that about Dwight Howard too. I wouldn't put all my chips on that.

Cleveland would have to have balls to do that with LeBron in his prime. Not saying they couldn't, or wouldn't, but the media is going to be constantly questioning whether the team, as constructed, is enough. They did the same thing in Miami. It's the nature of the beast that all eyes will be on the best player. I already think they have offered extraordinary value for Love as an "all in move", where they give up a bit of value to get guaranteed win-now production.

IMO, the Cavs have been burned by Lebron before and might not be that stupid to give in to him yet again and watch things go south. If Lebron leaves in the short-term it will hurt his brand and image more than the first time he left where everyone is certain that he's a hypocritical person. Does Lebron want to be like T. Duncan and playing for championships in his late 30's with Wiggins in his prime to help take over the load. K. Love has been rumored to have asked again to be traded to the Cavs which doesn't help the Wolves in the leverage that some fans think they have. Patience is a virtue that has lost some of it's benefits due to the win now and the heck with the future mentality some fans have who would be the same one complaining when it didn't work out and your in trouble now with draft picks and assets... see the LA Lakers for how gambles like D.Howard and Nash can backfire.

This is taken way out of context. I was describing how the bench has not gotten worse than last year, with Kaman being a part of that puzzle. Since Kaman is absolutely and undeniably an upgrade over Meyers Leonard, my point still stands. Whether you want to take it out of context again is up to you.

Kaman hasn't worked out for Dallas and the Lakers and if he's a big up grade over Meyers from last season I wouldn't be boasting about it. It''s really not out of context, your trying to make it way bigger than it is as an improvement over last season. I can understand hometown fans doing that.

[DaVoiceMaster]

I, unlike most of my Blazers fan buddies, think the Blazers will not finish as high as they did this past season. Like mentioned above, they got off to a hot start (25-5). They will not do that again this season. Maybe if they don't have the midseason problem they had last year, they might finish near where they did (54-28) last season, but I'm thinking they'll be closer to 50 wins than 54 wins. There's all this talk about what's going to happen next summer when the Blazers have a ton of cap space. Will they simply use it to resign Aldridge, Matthews, Lopez and then Batum and Lillard the following summer or will they actually use some of it to go after a good player or two. This summer is probably one summer too soon to even look at moving Aldridge. I'm just proposing these trades for kicks. Next summer will be telling for the Blazers.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

No. The "Lol" was directed at your sentiment that our depth was the reason for the hot start.

I guess we had a misunderstanding here, because there is no way that the Blazers bench was part of there fast start.

Well this whole thing got started by my response to this quote of yours:

Portland is in a more reasonable mood given that they don't (IMO) have enough depth to repeat last seasons success of a red hot start.

There is no other way to interpret this than you literally saying that we don't have enough depth to repeat last seasons start. If you mean to say that is not what you meant, then you have caused the confusion.


As to the other points, most of them are pedantic

- Difference between what a "good" finish to the season is and not.
Blazers certainly weren't lighting it up like the beginning, but they got it together enough from their midseason slump to make it a contest for HCA with the Rockets

- How much less dependable Blake is than Mo was and the magnitude of impact Kaman will have on our bench.
The hope is that any decrease from Mo to Blake is offset by the improvement Kaman gives us. If you think I am exclaiming how huge of an upgrade Kaman is, I am actually exclaiming how bad our backup front-court was last year. Wright cannot be any worse, nor can any of the rookie contracts we hold, so its hard for me to see where the huge loss of depth you are talking about will be. Don't get me wrong, I am not thrilled about the Blazers offseason, I think we spent more money than we had to on lesser players than were available. But we didn't get significantly worse with the moves.

- Aldridge playing for stats
The contract-year increase is most definitely a phenomenon in the NBA. Its a combination of players laying a little more on the line, and fellow players realizing and respecting the importance of stats for getting paid. What I was distinguishing between were players who seek out stats to the detriment to the team. Aldridge has never sought stats to the detriment of the team, and I would not accuse many players of doing so. You also will have to present me a compelling case that players in contract years lead to less wins to convince me that this is going to happen with Aldridge.

- Whether Aldridge will resign in Portland
I never claimed this was a guaranteed thing. Clearly it is not. No one said all our chips are on that. Just look at our contract situation in 2015, which gives us the flexibility to go another way if we have to. However, I did point out that Aldridge said he wants to resign here, that he is holding out for the 5 year max that only we can offer next summer, and his stated desire to break Blazer records as signs of optimism toward him resigning.

- Will Cleveland succumb to the pressure to trade youth and potential for win-now players
I think its a legitimate debate. They are certainly going to face that pressure this year. I don't know if they should or will, but I know that pressure is going to exist.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

I, unlike most of my Blazers fan buddies, think the Blazers will not finish as high as they did this past season. Like mentioned above, they got off to a hot start (25-5). They will not do that again this season. Maybe if they don't have the midseason problem they had last year, they might finish near where they did (54-28) last season, but I'm thinking they'll be closer to 50 wins than 54 wins.

I think this is a pretty common view. No chance that we can repeat that start, but we can make some of it up in the middle.

I also think the West is going to be stronger (in general, but not so much at the top end), so a few less wins will put us in relatively about the same spot. However, the difference between the 3rd seed and the 10th seed may only be a handful (5-10?) of wins, so any minor injury could derail any teams season.

[Norm2953]

I'm on record as thinking Portland will finish in a pack with Houston, Dallas, GS, Phoenix
for they've done little to close the gap on SA, OKC and the LAC. Look out for the GSW
though if they get Kevin Love.

[JasonStern]

How about this instead...

Portland receives: Wiggins, Waiters, Thompson, Dellavedova, MCW
Cleveland receives: Aldridge, Matthews, Freeland, Claver
Philadelhia receives: Bennett, McCollum, Robinson

why would the 76ers trade MCW?

and while Wiggins is what it would take for Portland to consider trading Aldridge, getting both Wiggins and MCW back is too good for Portland.

if you want to add a third team, maybe try replacing the 76ers with the Pistons and have Monroe come back to Portland. that might be semi-realistic.

I don't quite equate the level of success near the end of the season as high as some Blazer fans do.

9-1 over the last 10 games of the season. I'd take that 100% of the time entering the playoffs.

- Whether Aldridge will resign in Portland
I never claimed this was a guaranteed thing. Clearly it is not. No one said all our chips are on that. Just look at our contract situation in 2015, which gives us the flexibility to go another way if we have to. However, I did point out that Aldridge said he wants to resign here, that he is holding out for the 5 year max that only we can offer next summer, and his stated desire to break Blazer records as signs of optimism toward him resigning.

as long as Portland maxes out Aldridge, he won't leave. the real question is whether Portland would want to pay a 34-year old Aldridge over $20 million a season.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

- Whether Aldridge will resign in Portland
I never claimed this was a guaranteed thing. Clearly it is not. No one said all our chips are on that. Just look at our contract situation in 2015, which gives us the flexibility to go another way if we have to. However, I did point out that Aldridge said he wants to resign here, that he is holding out for the 5 year max that only we can offer next summer, and his stated desire to break Blazer records as signs of optimism toward him resigning.

as long as Portland maxes out Aldridge, he won't leave. the real question is whether Portland would want to pay a 34-year old Aldridge over $20 million a season.

Very fair point. However, players of his ilk (near 7 footers who are healthy and rely on their skill-set rather than athleticism) don't tend to have steep drop offs. Also, consider we will have locked him up before the new TV deals inflate the cap, so I wouldn't have a problem with it.

[jakeKCMO816]

personally, i like Love more than Aldridge. Both Top 3 with Blake Griffin but I still want Love.

[JasonStern]

as long as Portland maxes out Aldridge, he won't leave. the real question is whether Portland would want to pay a 34-year old Aldridge over $20 million a season.

Very fair point. However, players of his ilk (near 7 footers who are healthy and rely on their skill-set rather than athleticism) don't tend to have steep drop offs. Also, consider we will have locked him up before the new TV deals inflate the cap, so I wouldn't have a problem with it.

ideally, Portland front loads the contract. pay Aldridge more now while Lillard is still on his rookie contract, then let the contract decline as Aldridge ages. but even if they don't, I'm fine with paying him the max. if Portland doesn't, some other team will. and Portland isn't going to attract better players in free agency than Aldridge. plus, he was fairly underpaid on his last contract, so one can view a max contract as money earned over the course of his Blazers career. I know Wizenheimer has played that card in justifying Batum's current contract.