Tony Allen for Dion Waiters

Laimbeer · Post #1 » by **Laimbeer** » Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:23 pm

Cavs get a playoff tested, lockdown defender in the backcourt while Grizzlies give the offense a boost and get a younger player.

Boarder Patrol · Post #2 » by **Boarder Patrol** » Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:52 pm

Don't see Grizz trading Allen. He's such a perfect fit for what they do - defense, grit and hustle. They don't take on the chucker/headcase types.

Post #3 » by **bondom34** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:31 am

Agree with Border Patrol, don't see why the Grizz do this at all. And I actually like Waiters more than a lot of people.

marcush · Post #4 » by **marcush** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:30 am

As the others suggested, probably a no from Grizz but I like the thinking. That is exactly the type of trade the Cavs should be going for.

Mykhyn · Post #5 » by **Mykhyn** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:35 am

I feel like the Grizz would have to add a lot to make the value match.

Tony Allen is very one dimensional.

Waiters has showed pretty good potential when allowed to handle the ball and is still young.

I think Cleveland could do better for him

Jwduff · Post #6 » by **Jwduff** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:40 am

Yeah Dions value is higher than Tony Allen

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jayjaysee · Post #7 » by **jayjaysee** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:43 am

Can't see Cleveland considering this at all.

Waiters has taken the lead for most hated player on Realgm now.

He's now fully considered a headcase. He is 10 years younger than Allen, he raised his FG and 3FG percentages in his second year..along with slight improvements in all of his advanced stats.. If he played on a team that didn't get so much, I'd think he would be considered a decent prospect/asset. But for some reason he is viewed as a complete player instead of a 22 year old who can create his own shot and do a bit of everything.

Can't see why Memphis turns this down. Allen is amazing at defense, yes.. Probably the best defensive 2 in the league.. But he is 32.. And Memphis does need to add a piece to Gasol/Z-Bo/Conley that makes Gasol think they can be real contenders by next summer.. Maybe Waiters isn't that.. But Allen defintiely isn't, Waiters could be.

Only thing I can see is - if this is added to a Wiggins/Gasol trade that happens when Memphis decides to tank (not suggesting they would decide that but yeah)

Wiggins, Waiters, Thompson, Lucas for Gasol and Allen..

Or for fun

AV, Bennett, Wiggins, Waiters, Thompson, Lucas for Gasol, Randolph and Allen.

Gasol/Z-Bo/Lebron/Allen/Kyrie

goober · Post #8 » by **goober** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:44 am

I don't think Memphis would want to risk spending big $$ on Waiters when his contract is up

HornetJail · Post #9 » by **HornetJail** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:02 am

Boarder said it best. I don't think defensive studs like Allen that are on reasonable contracts get traded this easily. Allen's defense has a significantly higher impact on a game than Waiters' offense. Waiters has more trade value, but for a team looking to win right now, based on their identity of effort and grit on the defensive end, Allen makes more sense for them.

Mykhyn · Post #10 » by **Mykhyn** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:09 am

Bish wrote:I don't think Memphis would want to risk spending big $$ on Waiters when his contract is up

Maybe the 2-3 years they'd have to look at him would make of their mind.

HornetJail · Post #11 » by **HornetJail** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:27 am

Cklbmk wrote:
Bish wrote:I don't think Memphis would want to risk spending big $$ on Waiters when his contract is up

Maybe the 2-3 years they'd have to look at him would make of their mind.

Right now, they downgrade which is something they can not afford to do. I think they have to upgrade the roster, because as it stands, I think they could miss the playoffs out West. They did not improve much at all this offseason- Carter was a good signing, but I'm not they improved as much as other teams. Dallas improved A LOT this summer, Phoenix has likely improved, Portland bolstered their bench a bit, Golden State held steady and Houston got worse, but not enough to knock either one out of the playoff race. New Orleans improves dramatically by nabbing Asik, a healthy Holiday, Anderson, Gordon trio would help a ton, and Davis could be poised for a breakout?

Memphis isn't a threat. Even a minor downgrade probably sinks them out of the playoffs, in which case they lose their 2015 draft pick, and they'll find it impossible to come back. Gasol likely leaves in that scenario as well. The Grizzlies have two options- make moves that improve the roster NOW (maybe move Prince's expiring for a productive player on a bloated contract) or nuke the whole thing and tank the roster and head straight for the bottom. Right now the reverse protection they put on that pick looks absolutely awful. They have to convey the pick if it is within 6-14. I don't think there's a re-tooling window for Memphis because I think Marc Gasol bolts if they miss the playoffs altogether.

tl;dr- Memphis doesn't have 2-3 years to find out. They have to do something that gets them over the hump this year. Trading off a significant portion of their identity is a horrible idea.

Mykhyn · Post #12 » by **Mykhyn** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:32 am

BizGilwalker wrote:
Cklbmk wrote:
Bish wrote:I don't think Memphis would want to risk spending big $$ on Waiters when his contract is up

Maybe the 2-3 years they'd have to look at him would make of their mind.

Right now, they downgrade which is something they can not afford to do. I think they have to upgrade the roster, because as it stands, I think they could miss the playoffs out West. They did not improve much at all this offseason- Carter was a good signing, but I'm not they improved as much as other teams. Dallas improved A LOT this summer, Phoenix has likely improved, Portland bolstered their bench a bit, Golden State held steady and Houston got worse, but not enough to knock either one out of the playoff race. New Orleans improves dramatically by nabbing Asik, a healthy Holiday, Anderson, Gordon trio would help a ton, and Davis could be poised for a breakout?

Memphis isn't a threat. Even a minor downgrade probably sinks them out of the playoffs, in which case they lose their 2015 draft pick, and they'll find it impossible to come back. Gasol likely leaves in that scenario as well. The Grizzlies have two options- make moves that improve the roster NOW (maybe move Prince's expiring for a productive player on a bloated contract) or nuke the whole thing and tank the roster and head straight for the bottom. Right now the reverse protection they put on that pick looks absolutely awful. They have to convey the pick if it is within 6-14. I don't think there's a re-tooling window for Memphis because I think Marc Gasol bolts if they miss the playoffs altogether.

tl;dr- Memphis doesn't have 2-3 years to find out. They have to do something that gets them over the hump this year. Trading off a significant portion of their identity is a horrible idea.

Waiters has a strong chance to be much much more valuable to either team than Allen next year.

If they stand pat and miss or even barely make the playoffs do you think Gasol stays? They're an older team getting worse, not better. A lot of other teams situations will be a lot more appealing.

Regardless of anything if this gets offered Memphis has to take it purely for the huge value win, even if they intend to instantly retrade Waiters.

damecurry · Post #13 » by **damecurry** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:24 am

Cklbmk wrote:I feel like the Grizz would have to add a lot to make the value match.

Tony Allen is very one dimensional.

Waiters has showed pretty good potential when allowed to handle the ball and is still young.

I think Cleveland could do better for him

Depending on how you define "a lot" I agree. Tony is 32 and can't shoot, he has limited offensive driving ability but isn't a great ballhandler that is he turns it over a lot. I like him as a bench player who provides tenacious D but Waiters has the potential to be a very legit all-around shooting guard, plus he's cheaper for the next two years, regardless of any locker-room crap he's more valuable on the whole. I think the Cavs would be smart to make a similar trade but maybe they can cash in for Butler straight-up if the bulls want even more scoring or take off the restrictions of memphis's pick to Cleveland in '15 and add either Nick Calathes or Jordan Adams to Allen and I think it's a good deal, helps them balance the loss of a young/promising player.

Dupp · Post #14 » by **Dupp** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:27 am

Allen is one of my favorite players in the league but no.

Mykhyn · Post #15 » by **Mykhyn** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:10 pm

damecurry wrote:
Cklbmk wrote:I feel like the Grizz would have to add a lot to make the value match.

Tony Allen is very one dimensional.

Waiters has showed pretty good potential when allowed to handle the ball and is still young.

I think Cleveland could do better for him

Depending on how you define "a lot" I agree. Tony is 32 and can't shoot, he has limited offensive driving ability but isn't a great ballhandler that is he turns it over a lot. I like him as a bench player who provides tenacious D but Waiters has the potential to be a very legit all-around shooting guard, plus he's cheaper for the next two years, regardless of any locker-room crap he's more valuable on the whole. I think the Cavs would be smart to make a similar trade but maybe they can cash in for Butler straight-up if the bulls want even more scoring or take off the restrictions of memphis's pick to Cleveland in '15 and add either Nick Calathes or Jordan Adams to Allen and I think it's a good deal, helps them balance the loss of a young/promising player.

Butler would fit amazing

I think Waiters would have the same problem with Rose as Kyrie though